Business And Economy Archive

Thread: Entertainer's Have NO Credits!

Sehvral
Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:06 pm
#14

Do any professions NOT whine about how they are being destroyed by the Devs???


Seriously, I follow the typical policy. AFK guys get nothing, rude entertainers get nothing, everyone else gets at least 15K. If they do a great job, they get a lot. Even gave a 500K tip once, about 6 months into the game. I went in for BF healing, wound up staying for three hours. If I could get service like that routinely, I'd spend more time in cantinas. Entertainers are poor because they are either (a) AFK, (b) bad at entertaining, (c) never run into anyone willing to tip. After 2 years of playing on multiple servers, I find (c) hard to believe.



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Oxala
Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:30 am
#15

no more entertainers sounds good to me



lDALTON TRUMBOl
CCCCC
#1PVP3R@M&MROPG
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----------------------------


Favon
Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:29 am
#16

its nice to actually hold a conversation w/an entertainer. The afk crap is getting old.
Otse
Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:34 am
#17

The AFK thing is annoying. Alot of the AFK entertainers and doctors are credit farmers selling on Ebay.On my server there are a few docs and dancers that are on ALL day and night and ALWAYS have the AFK tag up. But they are playing for fun? PLEASE!


The other thing that turns me off to a doc or entertainer right away is when they spam their "non-tipper" messages, like check my sig for non-tippers, bla-bla. I always skip these people.


Divinion
Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:02 pm
#18

I totally agree with the afk crap has to stop. I think the spam macros need to stop as well. That is the only reason why anyone would think I'm afk, because I don't read spatial anymore while entertaining. Plus those of you who think going to an entertainer to be "entertained" have issues. I stopped doing a lot of roleplaying while entertaining because of how some wish to be entertained. Happened with both male and female characters. Of course nothing gets done about that either.


I have mastered almost all professions and I have only complaints about this entertainer problem and Bounty Hunters not being able to see how difficult their targets are (and not being able to group for the more difficult targets).


But anyways this thread is all about how entertainers can no longer make money, so please let's not get off topic with those other comments. If Entertainers income is sololy based on 1k missions that require 10 mins of dance and tips they are the worse classes in the game right now after this Publish. So I'm posting here to hopefully get something added for Entertainers so they may be able to make some more money, or atleast some better paying missions so we can afford our own training. As a Master Dancer or Master Musician how about 5k missions on the terminals? 2 of them and I'll be able to train Master and I'll be a slightly satisfied with that. **My best suggestion is to give Entertainers an additional buff that has to be 'given' to another player by the entertainer. Just like how the old Mind Buffs used to be, where the Entertainer actually had to be at the keyboard to give it to someone**


That suggestion will prevent people from making any money from being AFK and it'll also keep the entertainers needed in the game.
Oxala
Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:35 pm
#19






Divinion wrote:

I totally agree with the afk crap has to stop. I think the spam macros need to stop as well. That is the only reason why anyone would think I'm afk, because I don't read spatial anymore while entertaining. Plus those of you who think going to an entertainer to be "entertained" have issues. I stopped doing a lot of roleplaying while entertaining because of how some wish to be entertained. Happened with both male and female characters. Of course nothing gets done about that either. LMAO


I have mastered almost all professions and I have only complaints about this entertainer problem and Bounty Hunters not being able to see how difficult their targets are (and not being able to group for the more difficult targets).


But anyways this thread is all about how entertainers can no longer make money, so please let's not get off topic with those other comments. If Entertainers income is sololy based on 1k missions that require 10 mins of dance and tips they are the worse classes in the game right now after this Publish. So I'm posting here to hopefully get something added for Entertainers so they may be able to make some more money, or atleast some better paying missions so we can afford our own training. As a Master Dancer or Master Musician how about 5k missions on the terminals? 2 of them and I'll be able to train Master and I'll be a slightly satisfied with that. **My best suggestion is to give Entertainers an additional buff that has to be 'given' to another player by the entertainer. Just like how the old Mind Buffs used to be, where the Entertainer actually had to be at the keyboard to give it to someone**


That suggestion will prevent people from making any money from being AFK and it'll also keep the entertainers needed in the game.





yea all that will do is bring back the buffs bots since you will still be afk, or not wearing you entertainer title so therfor not buffing, heh.i think almost completly removing entertainers like they have is one of the best parts of CU yet, second to only the melee fix



lDALTON TRUMBOl
CCCCC
#1PVP3R@M&MROPG
Nizzle


----------------------------


Divinion
Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:25 pm
#20

Oxala, you OBVIOUSLY are not here to talk about how entertainers cannot make money, so PLEASE do not post here. There is a reason why these forums have categories please go find the "Let's see if I can piss someone off" forums, because it isn't here.



Anyways, if you have any comments good or bad (Directed towards the topic at hand) please do so and let the Devs hear what we think. Lack of voice on here means nothing will get changed in the game.


bluejanus
Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:36 pm
#21

How about a different question. Other than afk-ers, have entertainers ever been very profitable?





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Supermite
Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:09 pm
#22






Divinion wrote:



**My best suggestion is to give Entertainers an additional buff that has to be 'given' to another player by the entertainer. Just like how the old Mind Buffs used to be, where the Entertainer actually had to be at the keyboard to give it to someone**


That suggestion will prevent people from making any money from being AFK and it'll also keep the entertainers needed in the game.





You are kidding right? Entertainers did not have to be present at the keyboard to give buffs. Doctors didn't have to be at the keyboard to give buffs.


The simple fact of the matter is that if you are not going to do your job then you don't deserve a tip. Would you leave a tip for a waitress who didn't serve you properly? Of course not. Part of your job is to monitor the spatial chat and watch for players coming in to the cantina to take a break and relax. If the spam is bothering you, then add people to your ignore list. If you aren't going to try to earn the tip, you don't deserve it. Logging in to the game and throwing on a macro is not effort.


I have played as entertainers so I do understand the issue of money. My experience was always that players came in, went to the AFK dancers so that they wouldn't feel obligated to pay. Now you may just have a better chance of making money if all the AFK'ers are heading to the hills. If fewer people are handing out the product for free, you have a better chance of making money.


As it stands, the entertainer professions are the least money demanding profs in the game. Everything else requires high maintenance.


You have a product that is in demand. Mos Eisley is not the place to be selling that product. As a rough estimate, I would say that at least 90% of the players who leave the Mining Outpost on Dant to hunt grab inspiration buffs before heading out. That 10% bonus to XP is invaluable to all the FS and jedi grinders out there.


You could also get a combat or crafting profession to supplement your chosen entertainer profession. You do not need to be lvl 80 to join a hunting group to make a bit of change. A 100k in credits doesn't take that long to earn doing combat.



"I am altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it further." -Devs (when being questioned by the players about the CB delay)
PoetDancer
Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:47 pm
#23






Here is my take:


The reason I, or any other entertainer is tipped, is because the tipper would rather see the tipped entertainerin the cantina than out doing other things.


I would argue that being an entertainer, dancer, or musician is perhaps one of the hardest forms of work in SWG.


I never, in all my months as a dancer, was tipped because I heal Battle Fatigue, heal mind wounds, or even buff.


And why not?


Because my competition has no real qualms about giving these things away for free. And not only that, but my competition doesn't sleep. They do not eat. They never leave the cantina, and they have no desire for credits. And in fact, they will entertain for 24 hours a day, seven days a week, for 10,000 patrons a day, or no patrons at all.


Faced with something like that, thequestion now becomes how can one even hope to make this an occupation, or earn any credits at all?


Because my macro-driven competition suffers from a fatal flaw:


They are boring.


Entertaining is perhaps the only occupation in the game where I have to convince the audience to tip me, when they can get everything I have for free. That takes skill, and hard work to do it well. In fact, skills that have very little to do with the skillboxes we acquire. Because the skills in question come not from the character, but from the player that plays the entertainer.


Entertaining, unlike the other professions in SWG, aresocial professions. That doesn't mean that a player has to be a "gabby" to do them. Think of social professions more in terms of "social science" professions. All it means is that the professions as a general rule operate by a much different set of assumptions than the others.


There have been other professions in the history of the MMO genre that are similar to these, and what they, and these professions have in common, is that the things that are emphasized are dialouge, creative use of the ingame tools, observational skills, and a careful attention to detail to the environment around the player. They are not professions for everyone, andtheytypicallytake an unusuallytalented player to make the most out of them.


In my opinion, thegreatest thing about the entertainment business in SWG, is that anybody who can be funny, amusing, insightful, or talented could make it in the business. The skill boxes did not really matter. They gave us extra tools we could use, such as new dances, new songs, new melodies, and new visual effects. They also allowed us to heal at a faster rate. However, a novice doing Basic 2, or Star Wars 1, if they were able to sustain the attention of the audience, could pulla lot of credits out of the cantinas.


But what these professions--and social professions in general--require for them to operate is a "static space" other players are congregated at, that are in a state of mind to be amused. There were several static spaces when this game launched. Shuttle landing pads, cantinas, medical centres, and camps, to name a few. And each one of them had a few features in common:


1) Players tended tonaturally congregatearound these areas.


2) They were generally empty of threats a player had to respond to.


3) The players generally had to spend some time there.


And I would argue, that if a space in SWG could be found that meets all these criteria, entertainers can earn tips there, whether the space actually could generate mechanics or not. In the time before shuttle time reductions, I could earn good credits by entertaining the travellers by the droid. In the medical centres, I could earn good credits by amusing the injured. And of course, in the cantinas, I could earn credits because there would be players there who were in the right frame of mind to appreciate an amusing presence.


Battle Fatigue provided a good platform for skilled performers who could make the static space more energetic and lively. I could explain the other uses for Battle Fatigue in terms of how it regulated the server environment, but that post is in the "General Game Discussion" board. Suffice it to say though, at least with entertainers, the skilled ones could make the time to heal it appear go by more quickly, without actually making it quicker in truth. Ihad a few sayings that I gaveto those new entertainers who wanted to know what they should be doing in the cantina:


The difference between a good performer and a bad one is that the good one makes ten minutes feel like ten seconds, and the bad one makes ten seconds feel like ten hours.


There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED.


The job of the entertainer is not to heal BF, but to make sure the patron's BF is at zero by the time he or she has the inclination to press ctrl-c.


With BF being removed, the question now becomes where will the static space be, and for what purpose? That is the big issue facing entertainers--and the possibility of social professions--today in the MMO industry.


Because the "fashionable trend" these days is tostripawayall the"static spaces" from the environment as possible. The current emphasis on action over realism and depth meant that any space that players were congregated at for a large time was considered a "dead space," or a "time sink."


However, the problem is if the space is too active, or players move through there too quickly.Instead of a welcome diversion from the mundane, we become "clutter." And I have yet to see anyone who is willing to tip to see more "clutter" in the areas like the starports today, when players are trying to interact with their fighter craft.


The problem is also if the things we do to draw an audience are delivered too quickly, like our current inspirations. Because if the things we do for players are applied too quickly, then one doesn't even need to be very skilled at all at capturing the audience's attention, now do they? That is the real dillemma we face. Inspirations are not very good platforms for performance, because they can be delivered so quickly by an AFK master, that players receive them before they even realize how boring they are.


And that is why I fear for these professions without Battle Fatigue. Not becauseI was ever tipped for healing Battle Fatigue. How could I when the patron could /watch the layabout next to me who just skill animates via unattended macro? I fear that I no longer have many spaces available to me to really showcase my talents. The fact of the matter is--for better or worse--the "static spaces" in the game are drying up.


Because the truth of the matter is, if I can find a group of players that are congregated around looking to be amused, I can make it in this profession, like I always have.


But if players are always on the move, and never need to slow down, they don't need a show. What they need is less unnecessary clutter. And I no longer am a skilled professional at the art of distraction and amusement. I become just more clutter.

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 07-24-2005 12:57 AM



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Kalano
Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:28 am
#24

As a patron of a cantina. The ones i stayed in beyond the time i need were ones that had someone there entertianing. Not AFK bots.


The bots felt as my game time was wasted just watching them doing the same routine wasting my time.


Actual players made my time fun, and i wasted more time having fun and not carring that i lost it.





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Oxala
Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:30 am
#25

when I had a entertainer toon I also did some crafting, thats was my main income.



lDALTON TRUMBOl
CCCCC
#1PVP3R@M&MROPG
Nizzle


----------------------------


rocco81b
Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:03 pm
#26






JediGal777 wrote:






psikobunny wrote:


While I agree the new changes have made life for entertainers harder, your post sounds whiny and immature. You sound like you expect to be given money just for being there. I never ask for tips, I earn them. I do what I can to truly entertain the people who come in, and it makes me sad to see people who think the game owes them a living.


If you're truly that hard up for cash, do Entertainer missions. You'd make more than enough money for training. Sounds like the groups your in aren't even worth it, if they're not helping by teaching skills.


Should we have an environment where playersare encouragedto visit us, and are discouraged from AFKing their way through the professions and making our play area unlivable? yes.


Should the game force people to give you money for just being there? no, not if you're not working for it.







It's not a "whiny" post as you stated above. It's merely the irony of it all. Think about it? They passive aggressivly nerfed the hell out of entertainers, AGAIN! Basically the whole profession is useless anymore. No battle fatigue? Why bother going to the cantinas anymore?

Message Edited by JediGal777 on 07-24-2005 12:56 PM




With my crafting toon I go to the cantina all the time. She used to be a dancer in Jabba's palace, so she knows a lot of the entertainers. She goes to cantina just to bs with the entertainers. Some are new faces she doesn't know, but still very entertaining. Try playing this game for fun sometimes, not just to get ahead.



Some people are like slinkies; pretty useless, but still fun to push down the stairs.

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