Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Veteran rewards were the best thing for this games economy ever
Its not causing any new credits to enter the system, just to spread out
As a Droid Engineer, you don't use organics, which is the major expenditure of many crafting professions. An armoursmith will spend millions on hides, similarly docs with avian meat, and while it's trivial to get a million units of a harvestable, it is not a trivial matter to get even 300k of a hide or avian meat. 300k of hides or avian meat represents a lot of economic transactions - hunters, crafters, everyone's involved. A doc or an armoursmith will get 10 of these rewards, get 300k of hides/avian meat, and never buy again. Or chefs - a couple of 100k stacks of milk or even rarer organics like Mollusk meat (for BEs) is going to last a very long time. These economic transactions, from hunter to crafter and back again, are a significant part of the server economy, and they are what has just been killed off.
AudioOrgana wrote:
Major crafters could care less - what's 30K of something when you've got 100's of K or more in a warehouse because you've been playing for so long? When a good spawn happens, "major" crafters mine or purchase enough to last years.
I'm keeping my 30K deed and putting it on display on my desk just for fun. I'll likely never use it -I just don't see the point. I've got every rare resource I want, and if something new spawns - I'll just mine it.
This will help the newer crafters compete, for a bit, by giving them some resource they weren't around to get the first time, but 30K isn't going to last anyone very long.
AO
DirthNader wrote:
I'm not sure how things were on your server,but on Shadowfire the docs went ape over these 30K kits. They were selling all day long at 300cpu, and are still selling at no less than 200cpu. Even a the height of solo-group terminal farming, I never paid more than 125cpu for hides. It's extremely rare to pay more than 75cpu for a mineral resource, most go for 10cpu or less.
Do you honestly think any crafter in his or her right mind would pay 300cpu for these rewards to generate resources that they've never even paid half of that to aquire? That would be plain old dumb business. I really have to question how much you know about crafting if you honestly believe what you're quoted as saying above.
Me, I used two two kits my two accounts got me to generate some resources that no one on the server had for combat meds. Since no one was selling them and I only make combat meds for myself and a guildmate, I'd say that those two kits had zero impact on the economy.
But why else do you think the docs are going ape over these kits? Because they do pay 2-300cpu for avian meat. The influx of avian meat/hides is going to be enormous, and the buying of hides and meat is going to all but stop. That's the economic tragedy I'm referring to - of course nobody's going to use this to get a metal or something minable unless they positively have to.
As an armoursmith, I regular pay hunters a lot for hides. Every few months I'll really buy hides in bulk, spending quite a few millions. I know that the large-scale docs pay an awful lot more for avian meat. That will now stop. I got 10 kits the day the patch came in personally - if I wanted, I could get double that now. I paid a couple of million total - I got a few from accounts, and most of the rest were given to me as goodwill or for a very cheap price. And I know that most crafters on my server are much better connected than me. That's at least 300kof the best hides the server has ever made if I want - I'll never buy hide again. I know that the major crafting docs instantly stopped paying for avian meat the day of the patch - they will also get 3-400k of avian meat each and never ever buy again. Some poor people used their kits to make resources, and tried to sell the actual resources - they can't. Everyone who would normally pay high prices for organics just isn't any more - there's no economic sense to, since they just got as much of the very best the server has ever made for a pittance.
Message Edited by DirthNader on 02-12-2005 09:41 AM
MusicMan09 wrote:
It's also creating inflation of credits.
Veteran rewards do not cause inflation, and here is why:
- The trading, buying, and selling of veteran rewards neither sources new credits into the game, nor sinks credits from the game. Thus, the effect on the economy is not going to be a great one.
- The market for veteran rewards is a new market, and furthermore, it has no dependency on other markets (e.g., it does not depend on resources, energy, subcomponents, etc.).
- The market for veteran rewards haseither no effect or aneglible effect on other markets. Self-powered harvester kits still require a harvester, and thus I can't see this reward affecting the harvester market (if anything, it might actually stimulate it). All the furniture and toys are new, and thus have no effect on existing markets. Anti-decay kits might have a neglible effect on "uber weapon/armor/clothing" markets; however, if the demand goes down slightly, and the supply stays the same, then prices will come down (this isn't inflation by the way).
RelicOMO wrote:
Theveteran rewards of the 30k resource kit and the anti-decay kit will in fact end the economy, not better it. The reason is simple - both allow more established players to never participate in the economy again. They make players even more independent than they were, and eliminate reasons to buy and sell. The resources in particular cut down the differentiation between crafters - crafting becomes basically rote, rather than a skill, and when there's no way to differentiate your product from any other (not even by location or advertising, in the new vendor system), then there's no real incentive to improve or expand as a crafter.
This one-time redistribution of credits is not a boon to the economy. Crafters already redistributed credits often, and not just between the rich, but also paying out to hunters, hide gatherers, and so on. With every major crafter having the ability to print 300k of the best creature resource ever, they will never pay a hunter again. A huge source of player credit redistribution just ended instantly. With established fighters now able to use their best weapon forever, now able to wear their best armour forever, they will never purchase anything again. With jedi now able to preserve their entire saber forever, they will never buy anything ever again. A one-off credit redistribution should not be mistaken for an economy. Particularly not when the net result is that people will buy and sell far less than they used to.
/disagree
- Anti-decay kits will not hurt the economy. First, there aren't enough of them have an observable effect. Second, even if it did have a noticeable affect, it might bein the form of a reduced demand on "uber things", which will translate into reduced prices if the supply were to stay the same, thereby making these "uber things" more accessible to the general populace. Third, the players that originally created the demand for these "uber things" aren't going to suddenly stop buying them (if anything this gives them more money to buy yet more "uber things").
- Even if every single character in the game received a 30K create of any resource, this isn't going to hurt the game or the economy. FIrst, 30K units of any resource doesn't represent a lot. Second, it seems to me that a crafter opting for this reward is going to put these resources to good use, cranking out some good items for people to buy, thereby creating a supply of items that might satisfy pent up demand (for lack of a particularly good resource).
- Redistribution of wealth isn't bad because it gives players that didn't have money buying power, thereby increasing demand.
All these effects are good for an economy.
DirthNader wrote:
RelicOMO wrote:
Every major crafter will use 10 of these rewards at a minimum. Probably more.
I'm not sure how things were on your server,but on Shadowfire the docs went ape over these 30K kits. They were selling all day long at 300cpu, and are still selling at no less than 200cpu. Even a the height of solo-group terminal farming, I never paid more than 125cpu for hides. It's extremely rare to pay more than 75cpu for a mineral resource, most go for 10cpu or less.
Do you honestly think any crafter in his or her right mind would pay 300cpu for these rewards to generate resources that they've never even paid half of that to aquire? That would be plain old dumb business. I really have to question how much you know about crafting if you honestly believe what you're quoted as saying above.
Me, I used two two kits my two accounts got me to generate some resources that no one on the server had for combat meds. Since no one was selling them and I only make combat meds for myself and a guildmate, I'd say that those two kits had zero impact on the economy.
That's because players are willing to pay insane amounts of credits for a buff. Wonder how the CU will change this?
Who knows. The docs and chefs really have us by the balls with buffs. I can play without armor, but I can't play unbuffed.
Jagged-F3l wrote:
That's because players are willing to pay insane amounts of credits for a buff. Wonder how the CU will change this?
RelicOMO wrote:
LukeBorgman wrote:Let's do the math. If 10 people get 1 anti-decay kit each and each of them sells it to the same player for 10million each, then 10 players will each have 10 million credits they didn't have before and one player will have 100 million less. If each of those 10 players had not been able to sell their kits, then there would be a total of 10 items in the game not decaying. But since they are tradeable, the money changed hands and how many items are there in the game now that don't decay? TEN. No difference to the economy.As a side note, there are probably 100s of times more Jedi in a similar economically exempt state as there are players with 100 million credits who will actually attain that state.Except that instead of 11 people who still need to replace most of their personal inventories, there's now one rich person who doesn't need to participate at all.
In any case, I'm prepared to concede that the impact of the anti-decay kits is going to appear much worse than it actually is, certainly from the economic viewpoint. It'll appear bad, because Nyax/the Acklay/whateverwill be permacamped by the same guy 24 hours a day with zero chance of outdamaging him, and because people will be massacred in PvP very fast by one or two particular people again and again, but the actual impact is not going to be as bad as it looks. The resource kit reward is far, far worse for the economy - I think most people don't really understand the full ramifications of that.
And I fully, totally agree with you about jedi - the economically exempt state of jedi, coupled with the fact that jedi is the major goal for much of the player base, has been one of the hardest blows to the SWG economy.
First of all who need to hold onto 100million credits and not spend it. Credits are there for people to spend like money. I know that people have to have money to spend but RelicOMO I have read several of your post and to me it seems to me you dont like the idea of individuals being able to make some money. Kinda like you want the rich to stay rich and the less fortunate in this game well not to be able to make any money at all. 30k of resources are not going to kill the market, if you ask me it will make it better with better quality items being made. Who cares if someone sells an anti-decay kit for 10 million credits. If that person is dumb enough to spend 10 million credits on one then thats there problem. As far as the same person permacamping Nyax/ackley and such, well on the server I play on they have been camped a heck of a long time ago by the same person 24/7 using macros and such. These are the people permacamping now that are killing the economy by selling for example a +15 armor exp tape for 50 million credits. This just gives the little person a chance to make a few credits, and to me sounds like you dont like having the competition. I am not rich in a long shot on this game, but I have a few credits and to me its all about managing your money. quite a few of these servers are overpriced on a lot of items and now the little man will for a short while be able to make quality stuff or make a few credits by selling there stuff to give them a chance from not having to grind for hours on hours to get a little ahead.
stanbize wrote:
When taking into the accountthe foreseeable sharp drop in the demand for precious weapons and crystals, I would say the economy will be slowed down.
The new awards won't help slowing deflation, the 30k deeds are priced according to the highest price obtainable for the current precious resources (e.g. 30k x 150 cpu = 4.5 mil) and the anti-decay kit plus increasing spawn of krayts means lesser demand for crystals of lower quality.
Why are there people worrying about the "sharp" impact of veteran rewards? There just aren't going to be that many of them.