Business And Economy Archive
Thread: What (further) increased loot means for your SWG economy
Julle wrote:
RelicOMO: A you stated yourself, there will still be things to strive for, which the rich will buy, such as über AAs and CAs. The place that krayt loot had in the economy will be replaced by other items of interest. When krayt loot looses value, other stuff that gives perks in combat will rise in value as players will be prepared to spend a larger part of their fortunes on it. I don't see the big problem.
Essentially, you are correct - my issues with the overabundance of loot still stand, however. With many people complaining about how crap loot is in SWG compared to [MMO of choice], I think that devaluing more loot to the point that people destroy it immediately because of its worthlessness is not a good thing. Particularly when said loot comes from some of the highest level things in the game. Furthermore, I also think the SWG economy needs more avenues of trade, not less - removing more things that people want to buy and sell is again, not a good thing.
Aeneus wrote:
Alright, I hate to disagree with the majority here but I will. The original poster sounds like someone throwing a fit that he isnt going to make 45+ million a day creating items for only the rich players. And no, I am not a poor player... everything I read (and yes I read your entire post) can be boiled down to More loot drives the price down to where the poor-med players can buy it is a bad thing, keep it rare so I can make my millions.Greedy people like you are what keeps the prices as high as they currently are priced.
I dont care if you one star me, or reply to my post... I wont be coming back to read this post again.... you sicken me with your greed
Well, you won't be reading this, but others will.Calling everyone you disagree with "greedy" doesn't do a lot to convince me of the merits of your argument. Frankly, calling everyone greedy is more or less an admission that you don't have any good arguments at all.
My view on increasing loot drop rates is that it makes loot too common, instead of special like it should be. Lets face it, for SWG high-end loot is pretty much the end-game. What sense of accomplishment is there if you can get a great enhanced weapon with too little, or no, effort? That sounds pretty boring to me, considering there isn't much else for a combat player to do in SWG, at least until the GCW is fixed.
Rare loot isn't priced high because of greedy sellers...it's priced high because of greedy buyers. Buyers set the prices for loot. When someone drops a couple of million credits for an Acklay bone, it's because that person thinks the Acklay bone is worth the price. And he wants to be sure to bid high enough so no one else will bid over him and get "his" Acklay bone (or Krayt tissue, crystal, pearl,whatever). Greed is a two-way street.
Too bad you won't be reading this...you might have learned something important about SWG's economy. Then again, maybe not.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
DirthNader wrote:
Two points regarding krayt loot:
1.) Weaponsmiths destroying base tissue is another symptom of combat inbalance. Only ranged players need krayt tissue-enhanced weapons. Currently, riflemen are the only ranged class that can really hold their own with the elite of PvP and high-end PvE. These riflemen are already damn close to the speed cap with +90 speed at master, and their weapons already damaging enough that an extra 30 or so damage isn't a big deal. To the carbineers and pistoleers of the world, that speed and damage is critical. If more people played as carbineers and pistolers (the non-BH variety), then you'd see more of a demand for low-level tissue.
2.) Krayt scales and segments are generally worthless because you're better off using crafted components. Segments are a replacement part, not an enhancer, and most that are looted are inferior to crafted segments. If you're turning away people with 35% base or better segments, you're a fool. Scales are unpopular because they move all of the resistances to special protection where they can't benefit from an effectiveness slice. In short, scales and segments both have tradeoffs to them, and are not all positive like tissue.
Cheap enhanced weapons would actually do a lot of good in helping balance out combat classes. Even with +25 in speed attachments, I still have to use krayt tissue and form-fitted stocks to speed cap damage sliced and power-up'ed carbines. Not a cheap proposition. Maybe if weapons like that weren't so expensive, it'd be more viable to play as something other than a rifleman or melee profession.
You seem very eager to try to brand me as an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about. Not that it matters, but rest assured that I've been one of my server's most elite crafters in a number of professions, not just armoursmith, for quite some time now, and most definitely know what I'm talking about.
Since you want to discuss semantics, though, I know exactly what scales and segments do. I know what sort of armours I can use scales in and make it highly useful and valuable, not a waste of time and effort. And still, scales are so common, and so easy to get even by myself, even the double digit resist scales, that I don't buy them. I know also how good a segment needs to be to be useful as armour, and I know that the fact remains that krayt segment armour won't have stun and won't get any higher resists than are possible with craft and a slice - all they'll do is have lower HAM. And since HAM is meaningless, particularly with 4-piece suits, I know that while I enjoy making krayted composite for the prettiness of it, the reality is that regular composite is easier to make, cheaper to make, and more useful. I can craft helmets with 27% stun, 90% base easily enough, or I can spend creds on elite krayt segments that will make 90% base without stun and lower HAM. I know which ones people will buy, or at least which ones they will pay more for, and I know which ones make more economic sense for me to make.
Furthermore, while it's nice to imagine that cheap krayt weapons will make carbineers and pistoleers immediately viable in PvP or high end PvE, surely you've been around long enough to know that's not the case. Carbineers do not have an AP3 weapon, and their best damage weapon cannot compare with the AP2 weapons that melee professions have. Even a massively enhanced laser carbine is not going to get above 5-600 damage or so, and the minimum will be so very low that it won't be as effective as even an average 600 damage hammer or LVA. Furthermore, carbineers do not have a stun weapon - they have no chance at all of killing a normal armoured target in PvP, and while they can and do kill padawans, that's not really a significant challenge; a master LS jedi will kill them without breaking a sweat. Pistoleers do of course have stun weapons, but they cannot target mind unless they are also BH - I've PvPed a long time, and I can honestly say I've never seen a pistoleer kill a stun armoured target by health shotting or stopping shotting, even with a powerful Geo blaster. I'm sure it's happened, and I know that I've taken some significant damage from large enhancedgeo blasters myself, but in the end, stun armour plus a PSG plus the higher damage output of another combat profession wins out, even against enhanced geo blasters. Pistoleers also won't compete in high end PvE, because they don't even have an AP2 weapon - their best stuff is still only AP1. Yes, you can kill an elder by bodyshotting it to death, but you aren't really going to get loot rights vs a rifleman or swordsman no matter how enhanced your DE-10 is.
Of course, it's easy to come back with the catch-all response that 'the CU will fix all of this and make it all better'. I'm glad you can have that much faith, if indeed you do. Personally, I believe that the CU will change things around dramatically, but there will just be a different kind of uber template or two. There'll still be best weapons and armour combinations, just not what we have now. And none of that will solve the fact that so much of the high end content and loot is still so common as to be nearly worthless, or that people can make themselves economically exempt pretty easily.
RelicOMO wrote:
You seem very eager to try to brand me as an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about. Not that it matters, but rest assured that I've been one of my server's most elite crafters in a number of professions, not just armoursmith, for quite some time now, and most definitely know what I'm talking about.
What in the hellare you talking about? You're way to hostile for me to even bothe reading the rest of your post. Hope you enjoyed typing it out for nothing.
kthnxbye
scall01 wrote:
Relic, you seem hellbent on preventing anyone from having good loot. So what if the casual players can actually compete? Are you actually saying that's a bad thing?
Actually, that's incorrect - I want people to have good loot. I really, really do. But I know that things are only valuable, are only 'good', when not everyone has them. I want people to be impressed, to be happy, with high end loot. I don't want it to be so common that it's worthless.
Is it really so hard to understand, that rarity and value are linked? I mean, would you be impressed with a Ferrari if you and everyone you knew had at least one? I'm sure all of you were impressed with jedi the first time you saw one, when they weren't obvious and you hardly ever saw them - I know I was. Now that you can see half a dozen every time you shuttle into a starport, are you as impressed?
scall01 wrote:Relic, you seem hellbent on preventing anyone from having good loot. So what if the casual players can actually compete? Are you actually saying that's a bad thing?
If everyone has the good loot, is it good loot anymore? What if everyone started the game with an elite krayt weapon? What happens in a single player game if it's too easy to beat?
bluejanus wrote:
scall01 wrote:Relic, you seem hellbent on preventing anyone from having good loot. So what if the casual players can actually compete? Are you actually saying that's a bad thing?
If everyone has the good loot, is it good loot anymore? What if everyone started the game with an elite krayt weapon? What happens in a single player game if it's too easy to beat?
But what about letting people have a fair shot. What about keeping the good loot spawns like Nyax and ackley from being camped? You cant do it. So should only a handfull of people only be able to get all the good loot or should someone else who pays to play this game on a casual basis be able to have some of that as well?
FishyDude wrote:
bluejanus wrote:
scall01 wrote:Relic, you seem hellbent on preventing anyone from having good loot. So what if the casual players can actually compete? Are you actually saying that's a bad thing?
If everyone has the good loot, is it good loot anymore? What if everyone started the game with an elite krayt weapon? What happens in a single player game if it's too easy to beat?
But what about letting people have a fair shot. What about keeping the good loot spawns like Nyax and ackley from being camped? You cant do it. So should only a handfull of people only be able to get all the good loot or should someone else who pays to play this game on a casual basis be able to have some of that as well?
Letting people have a fair shot at loot is a totaly difrent and seperate issue from the one being discussed. Yes, everyone deserves a fair chance at getting loot, and getting rid of spawn camping should be a priority. But just because everyone should have a fair CHANCE at getting loot doesent mean that everyone should automaticly GET that loot.
But lets take nyax for an example since you mentioned him. By increasing his spawn time to 10 mins what have we achomplised? according to you, we have given a better chance to casual gamers to obtain nyax loot, therfore decreasing the cost of the loot. But in actuality, youve only made it even easiar for the guy wioth the uber weapons that is afk macro camping/looting nyax to get even more of the loot, which he will continue to sell at the maximum price the market will bear, while at the same time decreasing the value of the loot. So all weve really achevied is managing to really piss off a casual gamer who bought a nyax necklace off an afk loot camper for XX mill, only to find out that all his friends already have one, and several would have given it to him for free anyway since its so common its not worth the inventory sapce it takes up.