Business And Economy Archive
Thread: What (further) increased loot means for your SWG economy
Hopefully Krayts won't be soloable with the Combat Upgrade.
Hopefully, my girlfriend will come back with the Combat Upgrade.
Rogue1970 wrote:
Not everyones is a combat class, so this is not entirely accurate. There will always be a need for a supply, and now it will be more affordable.
Prices are coming down too - I've seen stun composite drop from 500k a suit to under 200k a suit on Intrepid since the solo group changes, for example. I expect high end weapons should start stabilizing soon as well.
The changes are merely whitling away at the rich and powergamers, not the casual gamer base. I'm feeling like a Republican was in charge of development last year and a Democrat took over this year. (Sorry for the political analogy, but it fits)
honestly i'm starting to agree with this statement. I was a big doubter when the solo group nerf happened, and tho i'm struggling to stay above monitarily, as i dont' want to spend my time in game just grinding for cash, prices on things ARE dropping down, its taking time, but price drops are a very good thing in the long run.
by the same token tho, they need to lower the price of harvester maint. so crafters aren't getting the shaft
Message Edited by FishyDude on 02-14-2005 06:38 PM
PixellJ wrote:
When alot of the content isn't accessible by the entire gaming population, there's already a problem in your ecomonic utopia.
I don't see how me spending upwards of millions of credits to get a krayted pistol just to compete with a wal-mart grade Vibro knuckler in terms of damage is a 'healthy' economy. If anything, it sounds more like an unhealthy 3rd world scenario, where your upper class minority controls the vast majority of the wealth.
I also don't see how having objects priced so high that the majority of the masses cannot afford represents a healthy market. A sliced DE10 on my server, they guy wants close to 20million for. I don't think he moves crates of these every day. I've recently come across my first set of tissues and and crystals. I am now a consumer of higher end items. I am modestly comfortable in wealth (ie, a growing middle class, not unlike most western economies), and I can now take part in an ever growingly, more evenly distributed healthy economy.
I'm going to respond to this post in particular, but what I say is applicable to most of the responses in this thread.
First of all, your postulations in this post in particular are incorrect. Firstly, the scenario where an upper class minority controls a majority of the wealth is not limited to an unhealthy 3rd world scenario. In all healthy first world economies it is exactly the same - a rich upper class minority holds far more wealth total, not just per capita, than the majority. That's plain enough to see in corporate America as well as in Somalia - it's simply an inescapable fact of life. Secondly, it is very much the case that having objects that the majority cannot afford is part of a healthy economy. There are many such objects in all healthy first world economies - most of us cannot afford Manhattan penthouses, a yacht on the Riviera, and several Ferraris. These are all goods that are priced out of our reach, yet people do buy them, and the majority simply doesn't buy them, but rather purchases more affordable goods that carry considerably more value for money. Stratification of goods and stratification of means is another fact of life - your supposition, where the majority can afford all goods, is in fact a sign of a very unhealthy economy.
Finally, your post reflects the same general attitude I describe in my other thread on the myth of inflation. Let's make things very clear - krayt dragons and Nightsister elders are some of the highest level mobs in the game. If they are not the endgame, they are certainly very close. They do not constitute 'alot of the content', as your post claims. You do not need a 20 million cred DE-10 'just to compete'. (Honestly, I'm surprised you feel you need a krayt pistol to compete against a VK at all - all unenhanced elite level ranged weapons, such as DX2s, Elite Carbines and T21s have much higher average damage and dps than a vibroknuckler.) I'm sure I'll be flamed for this view, but I can't buy into the viewpoint that weapons made from some of the highest level mobs in the game should be standard issue to all characters, and viewed as the minimum acceptable standard. Ravage put it well in a post on our own server forums - you don't need a krayt weapon to access 95% of the content in this game. You don't need a krayt weapon 'just to compete'. These are, or at least have been, perks for the veteran players, perks for those who want to buy their way up in the stratifications of means.
For the others who said something along the lines of, this is great, now we can all have the same high end content, I love this patch - I'm sure you do. Let's face it, it looks awesome - krayt weapons for everyone. I wonder if you will feel the same way in a month, when your krayt weapon is exactly the same as everyone else's krayt weapon, and it's not special at all any more. Or when you find that no weaponsmith will buy all the krayt loot you have because it's worthless - there's tons of it out there and he has more than he needs. You still won't have the server's best weapons - those will stay at the price level of 20+ million credits, and the rich people who have that much to spend won't have had to spend any of their cash on krayt or pearls, so they will still have the vast bank accounts to buy the very, very best. You'll simply have a krayt weapon just like everyone else. What else will there be to strive for? Bigger things than krayts?
Again, from our own Valcyn forums, Ravage put it best - there needs to be valuable high end content to give veteran players a sense of reward and meaning. Once everyone has the same, there's no high end content and no sense of reward. Things are valuable because they are rare most of the time - giving everyone the same decreases the value and the sense of achievement, and I can't see that as a good thing.
Increasing the volume of high end loot so dramatically does nothing to decrease inflation, as many of you contend. First of all, inflation did not exist in the SWG economy - those who believe it did are simply incorrect. Secondly, increasing the volume of high end loot will not decrease the bank accounts of the ultra rich at all - in fact, it will mean they continue to hold a majority of the wealth because they have nothing to regularly spend on. Thirdly, what that means is that the very best things on the server, the valuable +25 tapes, the legendary looted weapons, and so on, will continue to go for 50+ million, because they will still be rare, and the ultra rich will still buy them and price them out of the reach of the average player.
RelicOMO wrote:
PixellJ wrote:
When alot of the content isn't accessible by the entire gaming population, there's already a problem in your ecomonic utopia.
I don't see how me spending upwards of millions of credits to get a krayted pistol just to compete with a wal-mart grade Vibro knuckler in terms of damage is a 'healthy' economy. If anything, it sounds more like an unhealthy 3rd world scenario, where your upper class minority controls the vast majority of the wealth.
I also don't see how having objects priced so high that the majority of the masses cannot afford represents a healthy market. A sliced DE10 on my server, they guy wants close to 20million for. I don't think he moves crates of these every day. I've recently come across my first set of tissues and and crystals. I am now a consumer of higher end items. I am modestly comfortable in wealth (ie, a growing middle class, not unlike most western economies), and I can now take part in an ever growingly, more evenly distributed healthy economy.
I'm going to respond to this post in particular, but what I say is applicable to most of the responses in this thread.
First of all, your postulations in this post in particular are incorrect. Firstly, the scenario where an upper class minority controls a majority of the wealth is not limited to an unhealthy 3rd world scenario. In all healthy first world economies it is exactly the same - a rich upper class minority holds far more wealth total, not just per capita, than the majority. That's plain enough to see in corporate America as well as in Somalia - it's simply an inescapable fact of life. Secondly, it is very much the case that having objects that the majority cannot afford is part of a healthy economy. There are many such objects in all healthy first world economies - most of us cannot afford Manhattan penthouses, a yacht on the Riviera, and several Ferraris. These are all goods that are priced out of our reach, yet people do buy them, and the majority simply doesn't buy them, but rather purchases more affordable goods that carry considerably more value for money. Stratification of goods and stratification of means is another fact of life - your supposition, where the majority can afford all goods, is in fact a sign of a very unhealthy economy.
Finally, your post reflects the same general attitude I describe in my other thread on the myth of inflation. Let's make things very clear - krayt dragons and Nightsister elders are some of the highest level mobs in the game. If they are not the endgame, they are certainly very close. They do not constitute 'alot of the content', as your post claims. You do not need a 20 million cred DE-10 'just to compete'. (Honestly, I'm surprised you feel you need a krayt pistol to compete against a VK at all - all unenhanced elite level ranged weapons, such as DX2s, Elite Carbines and T21s have much higher average damage and dps than a vibroknuckler.) I'm sure I'll be flamed for this view, but I can't buy into the viewpoint that weapons made from some of the highest level mobs in the game should be standard issue to all characters, and viewed as the minimum acceptable standard. Ravage put it well in a post on our own server forums - you don't need a krayt weapon to access 95% of the content in this game. You don't need a krayt weapon 'just to compete'. These are, or at least have been, perks for the veteran players, perks for those who want to buy their way up in the stratifications of means.
For the others who said something along the lines of, this is great, now we can all have the same high end content, I love this patch - I'm sure you do. Let's face it, it looks awesome - krayt weapons for everyone. I wonder if you will feel the same way in a month, when your krayt weapon is exactly the same as everyone else's krayt weapon, and it's not special at all any more. Or when you find that no weaponsmith will buy all the krayt loot you have because it's worthless - there's tons of it out there and he has more than he needs. You still won't have the server's best weapons - those will stay at the price level of 20+ million credits, and the rich people who have that much to spend won't have had to spend any of their cash on krayt or pearls, so they will still have the vast bank accounts to buy the very, very best. You'll simply have a krayt weapon just like everyone else. What else will there be to strive for? Bigger things than krayts?
Again, from our own Valcyn forums, Ravage put it best - there needs to be valuable high end content to give veteran players a sense of reward and meaning. Once everyone has the same, there's no high end content and no sense of reward. Things are valuable because they are rare most of the time - giving everyone the same decreases the value and the sense of achievement, and I can't see that as a good thing.
Increasing the volume of high end loot so dramatically does nothing to decrease inflation, as many of you contend. First of all, inflation did not exist in the SWG economy - those who believe it did are simply incorrect. Secondly, increasing the volume of high end loot will not decrease the bank accounts of the ultra rich at all - in fact, it will mean they continue to hold a majority of the wealth because they have nothing to regularly spend on. Thirdly, what that means is that the very best things on the server, the valuable +25 tapes, the legendary looted weapons, and so on, will continue to go for 50+ million, because they will still be rare, and the ultra rich will still buy them and price them out of the reach of the average player.
Five stars for you.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis