Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Cross Server lot trading
Alukolli wrote:
and my question stil stands for the peeps who are against it
what are the difference between cross server lot trades- and if you borrow/rent/buy lot from peeps witin your server?
Message Edited by Diorchas on 02-05-2005 10:21 AM
I think the prime crafting classes that enjoy lot trading would be shipwrights and architects which can use a lot of low attribute, generic resources. Generally to get the good resources, you need to move stuff around and survey on other planets.
For most players, lot trading benefits are with storage. Let's consider the ridiculous amount of looted items one can now get. The bank, bazaar, inventory fill up rather quickly.
If anyone mentions factories, you can always pull up a factory to free lots.
Btw, I guess it's cool you can chat and send email to other servers, but that feature does make it quite easier to collude in lot trading. Why add things to encourage lot trading? Is being able to talk cross servers a really useful feature?
Lot trading has some limitations. Operating large harvester fields takes up a lot of time and power. How much fun is it when most of the time you log in, you have to go maintain your harvesters and empty them. I'm not sure if he did much lot trading, but one of largest resource companies on Kettemoor ever had to deal with several hundred harvesters. It became a second job for him. Led to burnout I believe. And he got rid of most of the business.
I'm not sure what a good way of getting rid of lot trades is, but I'm sure the impact on the economy will be significant, especially since people are used to prices being the way they are. Used to manufactured products being affordable. It's not like everyone does missions for fun. A lot of hunting produces little in reward. I think it's assuming too much that economy will necessarily bounce back and will proceed to grow steadily.
I seem to recall in the days before the vendor nerf, an architect who claimed to have several thousand harvester deeds. It was some crazy number and he threatened to dump them on his server if the nerf went through. I imagine that with a lot trade nerf, that both - people will hoard up products and resources for high resale later when the price spike stablized (at some higher level) or dump them in the current market depressing prices even more for quite a while after the lot trade. I'm sure this sort of activity will be more detrimental to classes like shipwright and architect. Afterall, people in the game generally produce far more resources per day than the economy consumes per day. While some people will lose storage space from the nerf, the increased storage in houses and reduce lot requirements will probably mean more hoarded products.
Klak wrote:
again, people who make the effort to create characters on other servers, hunt down people willing to do a lot swap, arrange a time to meet, buy the harvestors necessary for the other person's 10 lots, and end up getting 10 static harvestor lots has earned them. i have 60 lots and ALL my resources i sell for 1-1.5 cpu. i'm not making that much money. with my 10 lots i got, i use those to harvest the top notch quality resources. i make just as much money off those 10 harvestors on the high quality stuff as i do on the 60 harvesting grind quality stuff. obviously those 60 STATIC lots don't give that big of an advantage over my 10 MOBILE lots.
Does that also mean that people who take the time to make 3rd party programs or to discover ways to dupe credits also deserve them? No...
Cross-server lot trading was not intended by the Dev's. While it may not be implicitly against the rules, it was not a design feature. Those 60 static lots are 60 more lots than were intended by the game. You were limited to 10 for a reason. Those 60 lots, while making less than your original 10, still make more money for you than someone who plays withing the scope of the rules with only their 10 lots.
You can't justify cheating, even if that cheat seems to be tolerated by the game designers.
Alukolli wrote:
evryone seen to think that cross server lot trades are static..??
there are mobiles also
takes an bit more work because we both have to move them. but then again. we will certainly know if he quits game.
Lot trades are good for balanse of game. keeps prices down and have enough res availible to make armor/weapons and other stuff that are in demand.
and my question stil stands for the peeps who are against it
what are the difference between cross server lot trades- and if you borrow/rent/buy lot from peeps witin your server?
The problem with cross server lot trades is that you are using an ingame mechanism to bypass your limit of 10 lots. You are compounding this by doing it on muliple servers. If SOE chose they could consider it an exploit but I doubt they'll ever go that far. The making of a character solely to trade lots seems to be very much against the spirit of the rules.
Now then you say well how does that differ from same server lot rentals. Generally on same server rentals of lots the toon is still active even though he's chosen not to use his lots or to share them with a friend. On cross server lot swaps it is rare that the toon doing the swap is ever active.
I am sure they will impose some sort of hard limit to the number of lots you can administer sometime within the next 6 months to a year.
GraySeven wrote:
I can only see two ways to end cross-server trading. Someone suggested limiting the number of structure you can be administered to, and I suggested requiring harvesters to be redeeded before changing the resource being harvested.
You want to limit cross-server trades without cutting in to people renting lots from others on their server (like gun-bunnies who have a house and need nothing else).
Lots have to be limited. When they weren't (early Beta 3) it was a nightmare. Harvesters on every piece of flat ground surrounding NPC cities 3 or 4 kilometers deep...ugly.
Actually I wasn't suggesting it....it is something I've hear that they are going to do. When, I don't know. I suspect it will happen sometime before the Crafter Upgrade ( kinda like the Combat one but for crafters. )
Diorchas wrote:
If they choose to do that it would be a terrible blow to crafters and resource managers. If, as a resource manager, I have the business acumen to hire PC employees why should I be penalised for it? After all, part of the reason I get those employees in the first place is because they don't HAVE to monitor the harvesters I have them place. I do it myself. But under the "artificial admin cap" proposed above I couldn't do that anymore.
Why?
Seriously, people, why does this hurt you? HOW does this hurt you? From the outside looking in it seems simply that you have a problem with other people having fun in this game in a way that you don't approve. So please explain to me why this upsets you so much. It doesn't hurt you as a player, your character or (contrary to all the wailing Cassandras out there) the economy. If anything it HELPS the economy by keeping prices low and supply flowing.
So why?
You want the simple version? Because as a crafter, I can not compete with someone who has 60 lots pulling resources out of the ground with cross server lots unless I too twist the rules of the game and trade across servers myself. Because resource miners and resellers can't compete against a static operation without also breaking the rules. Because, as a Shipwright, my profession is more difficult than it needs to be to prevent those with access to large harvester farms from "monopolizing" starship component sales.
I'm not against having fun, I'm against people "having fun" at others expense. Did you ever stop to think that:
- The big clamor for more lots per character is being ignored by the development team because cross-server trading is unbalancing the game as it is without allowing for an ever greater imbalance?
- House item limits took so long to change because people already had huge amounts of storage because of cross-server trading?
- That most starship chassis deeds that were going to be made have already been made because of the rush to grind to Master left most Shipwrights with over 100 deeds, negating the need for massive grind material harvesting operations?
- That, if cross server lot trading were negated, more people would have incentive to mine resources which would give all of the Master Artisans out there a new avenue of income?
Number 4 is especially telling. How many artisans don't bother to harvest resources for resell because theycan't compete with the huge cross server operations out there? People keep screaming that resource prices will go up...why? Most resources are already priced 1000% or more above the cost to pull them from the ground for no discernable reason. I would rather see the price go up, then come back down as people harvest their own resources instead of paying the unreasonable mark-up most resellers charge.
I've Mastered 5 different crafting professions and I've always had more resources than I needed using 8 to 10 harvesters. I haven't placed a harvester in over 2 months because I don't need the resources AND I'M A MASTER SHIPWRIGHT. We, along with Architects, have the largest resouce requirements in the game. I'm sitting on 3 million units of radioactive because I dropped 10 fusions for 2 weeks (yeah, one's a BER 20 and the rest are 14's and I hit a 96% spot, but still...).
I'm not fully supportive of limiting Admin rights, but if that is what it takes to kill cross-server trades then I will put my voice behind it.
Message Edited by Diorchas on 02-21-2005 05:54 AM
Ackew wrote:
Give it a rest garry NOONE cares WHAT you think theyNEVER have and NEVER will. But we finaly see your AN explotier like i KNEW you where. Useing a Ber20 harv give YOU an unfair advantage over others. And its not something everyone can do like lot tradeingSo why don't YOU stop useing it.
If as you say your HAVE mastered 5 crafting profs which i doubt. You can't of had many if any sales sales if you ALLWAYS had more resources then you needed with your 10 hars. Supprising how each time you post now it goes up. 1st it was 4 then 8 and now 10. I'm pretty sure your a lot trader to but you just useing this a front so you can argue.
Isee your talking BS as usual about resources prices. The costs to get them using statics is about 1cpu and while i can't say about your server i know no grind rsources which is what 99% of people get 95% of the time from statics are priced at any more that 2pcu or maybe 3 if its ore. But i guess you must still be refering to those magical harvs which got 42 million resources in a week. Now if as you wanted we got rid of all the static lots then yesI CAN see grind resources going for 10cpu as very few if any one would bother to mine then as they would be to busy geting all the resources they need from them selfs. You seem to forget them people still need grind resources to grind for FS xp and new players who join so they can master. Aslo Arch and tailor only realy need grind resources since quality does'nt matter to them.
If as a master shipwright you don't need resoruces thats onlycause your NOT selling anything. I wonder why. Good shipwrights like my self need a CONSTANT supply of resources since we HAVE sales. Unlike you. Shiprights need FAR more resources than ANY other profession.
Ah, my favorite troll...you care, or you wouldn't take the time to respond or one star every post I make.
Master Artisan, Master Armorsmith, Master Droid Engineer, Master Shipwright, Master Merchant. The last probably doesn't count as a crafting profession, so I guess you're right on that.
BER 20 Fusions were makable for one day (actually up to BER 25 if I remember correctly, but this ones a 20) along with BER 14 Heavies. This was by Dev design as I heard it, so its not an exploit...idiot.
If it costs 1 cpu to harvest a resource, you're the most inefficient miner out there. My harvesters being used depends on how many factories I have operating as MY lots are limited. I'd like you to clicky the post I said I used 4 harvesters though...put your money where your mouth is.
At one time, I constantly kept harvesters on the ground and moved them to high concentration sites. Doing this, I am more than capable of out-mining someone who has a huge farm UNTIL A HIGH PERCENTAGE HITS THAT SITE. Then we have an influx of one or two resources. Granted you have no control over type or quality so my mobiles have you beat there too.
What you've just done is invalidate any reason needed for huge static farms from cross-server trading Achoo, since over time my ability to consistantly harvest high concentrations will out harvest a static farm that occassionally gets a big strike. I can also choose quality resources instead of garbage ones, just another plus for the mobile units.
Having never used cross-server trading for static lots, I wouldn't know the resource cost per unit for them, but I'll make a deal with you. Instead of trolling, how about you back up your rants with intelligent conversation and some hard numbers such as your average harvest per harvester per month and the cpu. After all, the only way to shut me up is to prove me wrong and so far you aren't doing that.