Brawler Archive
Thread: Fencer vs Swordsman
AriasImmortal
Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:09 am
#53
No one is just a plain fencer or a plain swordsman... we have all that extra SP for SOMETHING. I can PvP successfully as a Swordsman melee stacker, but with all the dots around the smartest thing by far is to be a doc. As for the stand/healstate thing, a smart fencer will just spam dizzy on you and you'll be back on the ground instantly. Not like it matters much, considering they can't do damage.
GF6 PvP tournament is on November 5th, come and watch, judging from the entries so far I'll be dominating the melee bracket, but its no head/chest armor so I could get unlucky (not likely though).
Roycroft, a couple questions for you, since fencers seem to actually do well on your server: What is the stun armor like? And what is your template?
GF6 PvP tournament is on November 5th, come and watch, judging from the entries so far I'll be dominating the melee bracket, but its no head/chest armor so I could get unlucky (not likely though).
Roycroft, a couple questions for you, since fencers seem to actually do well on your server: What is the stun armor like? And what is your template?
Trevellian
Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:50 am
#54
I have been looking at this for a little bit, as I want to start getting into PvP.
Currently I am master fencer and ranger, strictly PvE only (yes I know other combat types are better for PvE but I fancied a change).
I have been looking at the following template:
Master Swordsman
TK 4304
Fencer 0440
Pistoleer 0040
This gives me:
Def vs Blind +100
Def vs Dizzy +105
Def vs Knockdown +145 (I know, I know +120/+125'ish caps it)
Def vs Posture change (down) +110
Def vs stun +105
Def vs intimidate +40 (I think)
Melee defence +97
Ranged defence +77
Melee damage mit 3
Ranged damage mit 2
Now, to me at least, that doesn't look bad on paper. I have also though about replacing master swordsman with master rifleman, that would reduce some defences, but increase melee and ranged defences, plus I would get AP3 and a bigger variety of damage types.
Currently I am master fencer and ranger, strictly PvE only (yes I know other combat types are better for PvE but I fancied a change).
I have been looking at the following template:
Master Swordsman
TK 4304
Fencer 0440
Pistoleer 0040
This gives me:
Def vs Blind +100
Def vs Dizzy +105
Def vs Knockdown +145 (I know, I know +120/+125'ish caps it)
Def vs Posture change (down) +110
Def vs stun +105
Def vs intimidate +40 (I think)
Melee defence +97
Ranged defence +77
Melee damage mit 3
Ranged damage mit 2
Now, to me at least, that doesn't look bad on paper. I have also though about replacing master swordsman with master rifleman, that would reduce some defences, but increase melee and ranged defences, plus I would get AP3 and a bigger variety of damage types.
Noc-turnal
Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:57 am
#55
dude why are you even justifiying such rediculas comment. if they think that way i think that is thier problem and will find out the truth eventualy. save your efforts they are much more useful question to anwser
AriasImmortal wrote:
No one is just a plain fencer or a plain swordsman... we have all that extra SP for SOMETHING. I can PvP successfully as a Swordsman melee stacker, but with all the dots around the smartest thing by far is to be a doc. As for the stand/healstate thing, a smart fencer will just spam dizzy on you and you'll be back on the ground instantly. Not like it matters much, considering they can't do damage.
GF6 PvP tournament is on November 5th, come and watch, judging from the entries so far I'll be dominating the melee bracket, but its no head/chest armor so I could get unlucky (not likely though).
Roycroft, a couple questions for you, since fencers seem to actually do well on your server: What is the stun armor like? And what is your template?
MasterShacklefurd
Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:12 pm
#56
Yes most PvP'ers do rely on Doc skills because you NEED Doctor to PvP succesfully, wheather in a group or solo. Sure def stackers are hard to stick states on but once you do they can't do anything about it. Lay an intim or dizzy on a Doc and they will just cure it. And what happends when that Def stacker finds a CM or a Pikeman with some nice poisons and fires? Their dead,but that Doc is just going to cure and pound them.
Ok say it is a Def Stacked Fencer vs. Def Stacked Swords since all the other temps rely on Doc. Which stacker is gonna win, the one hitting your health for 20-50 points of damage or the one hitting the others mind foe 30-100?
MasterShacklefurd
Sat Oct 23, 2004 4:26 pm
#57
That's why most PvP'ers have Doc. Warcry and Havla are your friends
jedibeebe
Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:50 pm
#58
wilibus wrote:
however ... a swordsman with fencer or pistoleer defences ... remember you do have 250 skill points to spend. Defence is the key to victory in this game. A swordsman with a blast hammer can easilyas muchormore damage through armour thana stun baton weilding fencer anyday ... and you have headhit3, he doesn't. Just because these numbers are so much fun.
Let's assume your oppnent is wearing a full suit of stun layered composite armour with an 80% Elec Resist, and a 39% Stun Resist,that has been sliced for effectiveness bringing the base resistances to 85% with a Imperial Prototype PSG with a 44% Base Resistance.
Power Hammer
You Swing and do 100 damage ...AP2 vs. AR1increased the damage by a factor of 1.25 to 125,125 is then reduced by 85% to 19. 19 is reduced by 0% from the PSG. In essence your 100 damage is reduced to 19.
Overall Armour Effectiveness: 81%
Stun Baton
You Swing and do 100 damage ... AP0 vs. AR1 reduces damage by 50% to50, the 50 damage is then reduced by 44% from the PSG to 28, the 28 is then reduced by 39% from the stun layer to 17. In essence you did 100 they took 17.
Overal Armour Effectiveness: 83%
Now consider the stats on the best Acklay hammer vs. the best Acklay baton. And then consider the amount of mind damage done with headhit3 vs. the amount of mind damage done withscatterhit2. Albeit there are other factors, but as you can hopefully see stun damage is no better than blast.
why would u pvp with a PH dont u use scythe's in pvp??? see someone who PvE's and not PvP's
vnicula
Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:32 am
#59
My fellow swordsmans, there is something I want to share with you and I hope not many trolls will read this.
First of all, fencer and tkm are for children. Even with a 15 mils baton you are a joke. AP0 = 0 (zero) when you face a 40% stun comp and a 46% stun PSG. If you switch to your 5 mil gaffi you will face something around 80% kinetic and that is only for 10 secs until my warcry stick and I change to 90% kinetic. All this time people like me are stomping on your fencer/tkm heads with an AP2900+ ph (with powerup) which are already poisoned by a 280 tick from my looted LVA and with a 230 tick from my looted geo. If someone thinks that nowadays the good old dizzy/kd is still a good move, try to pvp with pros.
Therefore I conjure all good swordsmans and all people who knows the truth to keep it quiet because I train every day more and more Master Swordsmans and I know (from my CH, BH, fencer, CM experience) what this means.
If someone thinks that fencer is good for PvP, he has my approval. Go fencer, its a thrusty profession.
Swordsman sucks.
Repeat after me:
Swordsman sucks.
Peace.
Message Edited by vnicula on 07-11-2003 12:50 AM
volta
Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:44 am
#60
vnicula wrote:
My fellow swordsmans, there is something I want to share with you and I hope not many trolls will read this.
First of all, fencer and tkm are for children. Even with a 15 mils baton you are a joke. AP0 = 0 (zero) when you face a 40% stun comp and a 46% stun PSG. If you switch to your 5 mil gaffi you will face something around 80% kinetic and that is only for 10 secs until my warcry stick and I change to 92% kinetic. All this time people like me are stomping on your fencer/tkm heads with an AP2900+ ph (with powerup) which are already poisoned by a 280 tick from my looted LVA and with a 230 tick from my looted geo. If someone thinks that nowadays the good old dizzy/kd is still a good move, try to pvp with pros.
Therefore I conjure all good swordsmans and all people who knows the truth to keep it quiet because I train every day more and more Master Swordsmans and I know (from my CH, BH, fencer, CM experience) what this means.
If someone thinks that fencer is good for PvP, he has my approval. Go fencer, its a thrusty profession.
Swordsman sucks.
Repeat after me:
Swordsman sucks.
Peace.
Right on! You know your sh1t mate seriously.. 
MasterShacklefurd
Sun Oct 24, 2004 7:50 am
#61
jedibeebe wrote:
wilibus wrote:
however ... a swordsman with fencer or pistoleer defences ... remember you do have 250 skill points to spend. Defence is the key to victory in this game. A swordsman with a blast hammer can easilyas muchormore damage through armour thana stun baton weilding fencer anyday ... and you have headhit3, he doesn't. Just because these numbers are so much fun.
Let's assume your oppnent is wearing a full suit of stun layered composite armour with an 80% Elec Resist, and a 39% Stun Resist,that has been sliced for effectiveness bringing the base resistances to 85% with a Imperial Prototype PSG with a 44% Base Resistance.
Power Hammer
You Swing and do 100 damage ...AP2 vs. AR1increased the damage by a factor of 1.25 to 125,125 is then reduced by 85% to 19. 19 is reduced by 0% from the PSG. In essence your 100 damage is reduced to 19.
Overall Armour Effectiveness: 81%
Stun Baton
You Swing and do 100 damage ... AP0 vs. AR1 reduces damage by 50% to50, the 50 damage is then reduced by 44% from the PSG to 28, the 28 is then reduced by 39% from the stun layer to 17. In essence you did 100 they took 17.
Overal Armour Effectiveness: 83%
Now consider the stats on the best Acklay hammer vs. the best Acklay baton. And then consider the amount of mind damage done with headhit3 vs. the amount of mind damage done withscatterhit2. Albeit there are other factors, but as you can hopefully see stun damage is no better than blast.
why would u pvp with a PH dont u use scythe's in pvp??? see someone who PvE's and not PvP's
Maybe if your not speed capped
Jirob1
Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:17 am
#62
AllI say is:
- get speed capped (costy)
- get Acklay hammer with around 400-1000 damage (costy)
- get FS accuracy (timeconsuming)
- use the right food
- be Doc
but with above, you'll eat through Fencers Mind faster then he can dizzy
wilibus
Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:38 am
#63
jedibeebe wrote:
wilibus wrote:
however ... a swordsman with fencer or pistoleer defences ... remember you do have 250 skill points to spend. Defence is the key to victory in this game. A swordsman with a blast hammer can easilyas muchormore damage through armour thana stun baton weilding fencer anyday ... and you have headhit3, he doesn't. Just because these numbers are so much fun.
Let's assume your oppnent is wearing a full suit of stun layered composite armour with an 80% Elec Resist, and a 39% Stun Resist,that has been sliced for effectiveness bringing the base resistances to 85% with a Imperial Prototype PSG with a 44% Base Resistance.
Power Hammer
You Swing and do 100 damage ...AP2 vs. AR1increased the damage by a factor of 1.25 to 125,125 is then reduced by 85% to 19. 19 is reduced by 0% from the PSG. In essence your 100 damage is reduced to 19.
Overall Armour Effectiveness: 81%
Stun Baton
You Swing and do 100 damage ... AP0 vs. AR1 reduces damage by 50% to50, the 50 damage is then reduced by 44% from the PSG to 28, the 28 is then reduced by 39% from the stun layer to 17. In essence you did 100 they took 17.
Overal Armour Effectiveness: 83%
Now consider the stats on the best Acklay hammer vs. the best Acklay baton. And then consider the amount of mind damage done with headhit3 vs. the amount of mind damage done withscatterhit2. Albeit there are other factors, but as you can hopefully see stun damage is no better than blast.
why would u pvp with a PH dont u use scythe's in pvp??? see someone who PvE's and not PvP's
Blast Damage much like Acid isn't resisted by a PSG.
AdosOba
Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:24 pm
#64
If you talk about Fencer as just a prof vs. swords, swords will get always win. I had fencer doc for a long time so basically I was JUST a fencer. The only people (Melee wise) I ever got killed by all the time were Jedi and swordsmen. It happened so much in fact I went swordsmen.
RoadBurner
Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:38 pm
#65
AriasImmortal wrote:
Roycroft wrote:
A fencer 10 out of 10.
Between their kd/dizzy and high defenses....and swordsmen's lack of defense in post change, dizzy and kd, it's usually a very short fight.
If you spent millions on CA's/AA's, used every available food, etc...you might have a chance....assuming he hasn't invested in any attachements or good be food.
Fencer = uber pvp
Swordsmen = uber pve
A good scythe will allow you to be competitive on a larger battle field but in a 1v1 against a fencer....it's not gonna happen.
Message Edited by Roycroft on 10-22-2004 10:01 AM
LOL. So not true. I'm sick of attitudes like this.
best rebel PvPer on intrepid, up until 2 days ago, was a Doc/Fencer. 1v1, i could beat him 10 out of 10, despite +25 dodge clothing, pikatta pie, and his natural skill as a PvPer (he's just as good as I am, skillwise). He's now going swordsman. Coincedence? I think not.
Fencer can do absolutely NO damage in PvP. He used a 500 max (un powerupped) stun baton, and even that was ineffective.
People SORELY underestimate swordsman in PvP, and sorely overestimate fencer. the ONLY thing fencer has going for it is high defenses, and that can be easily ignored. I'm assuming by most of the posts I see (aside from a notable few, aka APEist and nocturne) that the majority of people using swordsman are PvErs, and don't PvP enough to realize the true potential of swordsman.
If you invest the same amount of credits into a swordsman and a fencer for PvP, and have players of equal skills fight with them, the swordsman will have the advantage, almost EVERY TIME. We can hit straight for mind, we have AP2, and we have more toughness (almost twice as much as a fencer). The only negative to swordsman is low accuracy, and if you use citros snowcake, have accuracy attachments, or use a high acc mod weapon (such as a scythe) you canpretty much negate the lower accuracy. I use a powerhammer 100% of the time in PvP, it has -40 range mods, and it rarely even bothers me .he only profession that I truely have a problem hitting is a jedi with Master Defender.
Lemme give ya a tip for fighting fencers. Get 40% stun armor. Get a crate of 45%+ stun PSGs. pull a couple out, equip one, and watch as the fencer does no damage. You should NEVER PvP unprepared.
As a fencer, I will say to you u are entirely correct.
However good fencers find ways around this.