Brawler Archive

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Roycroft wrote:

/shakehead

I've played and pvp'd for approx 9 months...most of that is solo pvping and finding 1v1's as I find it much more enjoyable than massive lag fests.

Please tell me how you plan on doingallthis massive damage when you're laying on your ass?

And while you're at it, please explain why99% ofthe hardcore pvpers I've encounteredare NOT swords? Fencers, tkm, cm and rifles rule the pvp battlefieldday. I don't know what game you're playing but any fencer worth his salt will drop a +30 def vs post change master swordsman on his ass so fast you will be lucky to get more than a few hits in.

If you can get someone to stand still and not dizzy/post change ya...sure......and I'll conceed that in ganks when you're not the focus of attacks, you can lay out some damage...but not a 1v1 vs a fencer of comperable rl button hitting skills.

I don't have the desire to be the "best" at everything...I enjoy swords...but I'm also honest with myself (and others) when it comes to our short comings.

I'm sick of people who are sick of attitudes like this

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if you pvp alot whats you template? if it includes scout or some crap like that, thats the reason you are lying on your back. my template has +80-125 in all states except def vs intimidate. im never on my ass and do quite fine.

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AriasImmortal wrote:

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wilibus wrote:

however ... a swordsman with fencer or pistoleer defences ... remember you do have 250 skill points to spend. Defence is the key to victory in this game. A swordsman with a blast hammer can easilyas muchormore damage through armour thana stun baton weilding fencer anyday ... and you have headhit3, he doesn't. Just because these numbers are so much fun.

Let's assume your oppnent is wearing a full suit of stun layered composite armour with an 80% Elec Resist, and a 39% Stun Resist,that has been sliced for effectiveness bringing the base resistances to 85% with a Imperial Prototype PSG with a 44% Base Resistance.

Power Hammer

You Swing and do 100 damage ...AP2 vs. AR1increased the damage by a factor of 1.25 to 125,125 is then reduced by 85% to 19. 19 is reduced by 0% from the PSG. In essence your 100 damage is reduced to 19.

Overall Armour Effectiveness: 81%

Stun Baton

You Swing and do 100 damage ... AP0 vs. AR1 reduces damage by 50% to50, the 50 damage is then reduced by 44% from the PSG to 28, the 28 is then reduced by 39% from the stun layer to 17. In essence you did 100 they took 17.

Overal Armour Effectiveness: 83%

Now consider the stats on the best Acklay hammer vs. the best Acklay baton. And then consider the amount of mind damage done with headhit3 vs. the amount of mind damage done withscatterhit2. Albeit there are other factors, but as you can hopefully see stun damage is no better than blast.

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Nice numbers... Too bad damage is all over the place. In the case of armor effectiveness, it depends on the weapons being used... Fencers only have like 25 toughness, while we have 43 (w/o master brawler) and 48 with, so we'll take less damage against a fencer with a comparable weapon. 100 to 100 would make me assume the fencer has a better weapon than the swordsman (100 damage after mitigation and the ~25 toughness compared to 100 after mitigation and the 43 or 48 toughness).

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The 100 damage i used was just to illustrate the overall effectiveness as per cent. Basically it was just an easy to work with number. In reality you could have used any number, but the point was that is a fencer hit for the same amount of damage a swordsman did, against the average armour of most PvP players, the hammer would punch more damage through the armour,my entire arguement is that stun batons are not the armour bypassing monsters everyone claims they are. Obviously a speed cappedswordsman will outdamage a speed capped fencer. My point was that Stun damage isn't thebe allend all of PvP in thisgame like so manypeople think it is. IMO Acid and Blast are much better. The onlyadvantage stun has is ganking noobs with no PSG's and no Stun Layers ... and do most of really need help ganking noobs?

1v1, I will beat any fencer currently playing on intrepid, except for the ones that use these 2 800 str action/mind fire knives.

You aren't honest with our shortcomings, because you aren't doing anything about them, just accepting them. They ARE changeable. Up until 3 weeks ago I was using an average acklay powerhammer (256-765 unPUd) and I was still insanely good. I was a fencer/swordsman def stacking temp up until 2 months ago and the MOMENT they fixed scatterhit2 to take toughness into account I used fencer to apply states only (400 max unPUd baton). Now that I'm a doc/swordsman, and I have a 915 max unPUd powerhammer, I'm unbeatable by any fencer 1v1. THEY JUST CAN'T DO ENOUGH DAMAGE.

I get dizzy/KDd or dizzy/posture changed all the time. Thanks to armor, buffs, and PSGs, the only melee profession that can damage me using nothing but weapons (not counting dots obviously) is another swordsman. TKM can try, fencer can try, pikeman can try (unless we're talking about a pikeman with a 1.8k max looted LVA), but they just CAN'T.

You wanna know why 99% of the hardcore PvPers you've encountered are not swords? because everyone wants an "I win" button, so they don't have to do work, or w/e, and because people are forever complaining about how swordsman isn't good, when it REALLY is. I'll admit that rifleman is still very good, but any def stacked swordsman can beat a rifleman, and any doc/swordsman can beat a rifleman (try to hit a CoB'd counterattack capped swordsman/doc w/o intimidate on).

If you want a little personal info, i'm a Master Swordsman/Master Brawler/Doc 4-0-3-0, I'm speedcapped, but not acc or counter capped (yet), I use a 207-915 max acklay powerhammer with -40 range mods, and there is not a meleer on intrepid that can beat me using nothing but non-dot weapons. If you want to know how I do enough damage, its because I can heal intimidate, so I'm always doing as much damage as I possibly can, and hitting someone for 100-150 mind damage per second AFTER their 90% blast armor reduces damage is very nice. I can run into a group of 8+ rebels, INCLUDING fencers, riflemen, and CMs, and win. I can go 1v1 against the toughest and highest ranked jedi and win. YOU JUST NEED TO KNOW HOW.

From what you've posted, either your server is behind in the area of stun armor and PSGs, or you just don't PvP enough.

Here is the single most important thing you can do in PvP: ALWAYS keep your opponent intimidated. ALWAYS. I PvPd on bloodfin for a bit, and that was their biggest shortcoming, they didn't use intimidate enough, so half the time you'd be doing full damage w/o even having to heal it off.

I've played since launch (so 14 months), been a swordsman for 10 months (since december/january), so please, please don't post anymore stuff about how swordsman can't beat a fencer. Anyone, with the right combination of equipment, skills, knowledge, and template, can beat anyone else. Like i said above, you put the same amount of money into a sworsdman and a fencer, and they are played by players of equal skill who KNOW how to use the professions, the swordsman will win.

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Roycroft wrote:

/shakehead

I've played and pvp'd for approx 9 months...most of that is solo pvping and finding 1v1's as I find it much more enjoyable than massive lag fests.

Please tell me how you plan on doingallthis massive damage when you're laying on your ass?

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Master Brawler/Swords/Doc4030....U are done with all stats and dots...

Message Edited by dsaviri on 10-22-2004 10:39 AM

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Roycroft wrote:

/shakehead

I've played and pvp'd for approx 9 months...most of that is solo pvping and finding 1v1's as I find it much more enjoyable than massive lag fests.

Please tell me how you plan on doingallthis massive damage when you're laying on your ass?

And while you're at it, please explain why99% ofthe hardcore pvpers I've encounteredare NOT swords? Fencers, tkm, cm and rifles rule the pvp battlefieldday. I don't know what game you're playing but any fencer worth his salt will drop a +30 def vs post change master swordsman on his ass so fast you will be lucky to get more than a few hits in.

If you can get someone to stand still and not dizzy/post change ya...sure......and I'll conceed that in ganks when you're not the focus of attacks, you can lay out some damage...but not a 1v1 vs a fencer of comperable rl button hitting skills.

I don't have the desire to be the "best" at everything...I enjoy swords...but I'm also honest with myself (and others) when it comes to our short comings.

I'm sick of people who are sick of attitudes like this

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Fencer's are a joke in PvP. Melee mit and stun armor and they won't touch you. Dodge sucks vs melee, just use an intimidate then add some citros snowcake if needed.(+40 Accuracy) KD doesn't matter if you have Doc in your template since you can cure dizzy or make a /stand /curedizzy self macro when you do get dizzy kd'd.

If your a Master Swordsman and complaining about Fencers in PvP, you shouldn't be PvP'ing.

Message Edited by Roycroft on 10-23-2004 01:56 AM