Brawler Archive

Thread: Warcry Proposal

Wookubus
Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:35 am
#40

lol @ huan..


/waves bye to warcry



Senobus
Master Combat Medic/ Master Riflemen

"You Have Sustained More Poison"
RaptosKhywalker
Sun Mar 07, 2004 8:24 pm
#41




Warcry needed fixing. Sorry, it was too powerful...Yes I know it worked fine that was the problem, it often worked too well. When they created the skill I don't really think SOE had in mind us KD'ing something then Delaying it on it's back for 20 seconds and beating the hell out of it while it was down there. It wasn't quite so powerful in PvP unless your opponent missed the "delay" message and spent the remainder of the fight wondering why nothing was working instead of running away until it timed out.


Here's the problem. Master Brawler costs an extra 48pnts (34 for me as I have TK skills as well) and Warcry2 made those extra points worthwhile. MasterBrawler didn't open doors to any profession, it was just there.It hassome weak bonuses a KD in Lunge2 and improved Warcry/Intimidation. The improved intimidation was nice, Lunge2 is very useful but without that 20sec Delay effect we have for Warcry2, that's a lot of wasted skillpoints. So what are they going to give us in return? An ability that is far more balanced in game play (except it's still targets with a cone) oh good...Andthey expect me to waste 34pnts for that? 34 points that could buy me any number of options with other classes. What SOE need to do is give something back to Master Brawler because with what they have done it will just end up a Holocron only profession and with changes to the Jedi system, soon to be an unused profession.




Well, I told you once, told you twice.
I told you before.
Just 'cause I'm the bad guy, don´t mean I'm gonna lose 'em all
The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my Guild, not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary
NULLDISTANCE
Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:27 am
#42





Tenant,


Look at the current poisons available to a cm , look at your maximum mind pool limit, now look me in the eye and tell me that warcry 2 is overpowered.....


I dont know about you but my mind pool is maxxed at 1k....


there is a guy running around on my server who hit me with a 1100, per tick mind poison.


My only hope versus him is that i get a warcry off on him before he does his 4 second throwing animation....


and anyone who has used warcry knows that the odds of it actually affecting a target is like a 50-50 gamble at best.....


Warcry 2 is powerful, and should be. 48 skill points well spent.


Lets assume the dev's remove their craniums form there posteriors and take away these uber poisons... even putting a cap of 300 per tick on poisons on single targets and 200 on area...


with the proposed removal of the "lockdown"(lockdownindeed.. they still run fine)feature of warcry on active targets (targets you are actively engaging), You now have absolutely no hope of catching and killing that cm who just dropped that 300 per tick mind poison on you and is now drawing out a spraystick or t21and running away from you. Warcry 2 in its current form doesnt even do this for you... you have to use it , (hope that it worked), knock him down, (hope that that worked), all before he gets more than 20 m away from you .... (oh wait, he never had to get that close in the first place, silly me)


Oh yeah btw, I know that I am beating on the CM/Riflemen pretty soundly with this argument... lets remove them as the primary targets... maybe pistoleers? (oh wait they have a DOT attack that affects health, yeah they'd require me to havea defensive-offenselike warcryas well), Maybe Carbineers? (DOT-Action.. same thing) Commandoes? (FLAME ON!!!!... ) Hell even a BH has access to a dot affect via master marksmen.... inpistols, rifles AND carbines.....


Thats all PVP, lets look at hunting...


Hmm i can drop a poison on that rancor thats over there and merely stay away from it till it drops, Or i can run up to it and try to knock it on its ass for which it will merely stand right back up and beat me to a pulp?


I think delaying that rancor from getting immediately up is EXACTLY what the devs had in mind when they made warcry2.... gives us pugilists a fighting chance versus creatures that would otherwise enjoyus with a nice Chiante. (but i maybe wrong, to assume the dev's did something right is a bit ludicrous)


Even with warcry 2's 20 second delay there is atill a 10 second buffer when they can get up and beat on us till we can hit them again with warcry... so were still taking damage... while that rifleman is cruising around on his swoop, sipping Martini's, waiting for the massive head wound he just gave that rancor to drop it


Again, look me in the eye and tell me it's overpowered.....


*shakes head negatively*


Try looking at the whole game instead of focusing on one thing.. if i didnt know that there what the other professions are capable of, i might think i was overpowered too... but i've opened my eyes and looked around..... try it.


N.

NULLDISTANCE
Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:45 am
#43


Oh yeah and if you think you are overpowered, you obviously are beating up the wrong people...


I look at the game in terms of PVP versus INTELLIGENT and highly competitive players..


This assumes that there are 2 types of folks.


A- thosewho dont know what they are doing, havent done the math, or are too lazy to explore all the possibilities available to their character's profession.

"wheee, I have a flamethrower" or " Jango Fett was cool in the movie, I wanna be him"... (perhaps the people you run into)


or


B- The people I fight. (Smart, thorough, analyticalpeople who understand tactics)


Any idiot can master a career.... knowing how to use it is what puts her/him in that B class.


So stop picking on that kid who took 4 months to master BH, and fight folx who masterd their elite in 3 weeks... chances are the latter person has a clue.


N.
Rchuno
Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:27 am
#44






NULLDISTANCE wrote:









Wow,


The ONLY viable reason to being a master brawler is being taken away?


Hmmmm, I don't get it.


Well if it occurs that only makes it easier for me to drop it and the polearms 1-4 thatI dont use and have lamented having to waste points on, to get Master brawler(Pooor pooor pikemen...)


well wait now how about berserk 2 and intim 2?

berserk 2?... lasts way to long for an elite profession to be bothered with (change it so that Berserk2 you can use a special with, and now yer talking about positive change)

intim 2?... decent skill to have,,, but blowing 48 skill points to augment my tk with ONE marginally useful tool? No *bleep*ing way



Ok so what will i do with my extra points?

tk and what?

cant do tk and master cm because Im a tad shy for points to master both...

Cm and rifleman? yeah i can do that.. oh wait look, EVERYONE AND THEIR HUURTON are doing that now since there's no reason to be in a melee career because nothing compliments a melee career very well.


TK alone is good but if you want to compete with those that know their stuff you have to have something to back it up


TK and another Elite melee career? Well I'd love to explain how doing that will be worthless soon too , but it's too hard to concentrate with everyone yelling "Stacker" at me....


TK/Doctor? Did that (The very antithesis to the CM/Rifleman), but .. the problem in a multi opponent combat is that a compotent player wont wear their tags into a combat, and you have no idea that youve been poisoned untilthat 1k per tick genosian amplified poison takes it's first hit on you.. (genosian poisons...... "Fabulous" idea btw dev's {--- sarcasm)

1 on 1 .. yeah i'll clean a cm/rifleman's clock with this build... but who duels anymore except noobs looking to prove something, or folx wanting to try their new special out?


TK/CH? I won't dignify that with a response? (maybe after the devs remove the "kill/incap the owner and the pet stops attacking" 'bug') ( you knock me out in real life and my rott' is gonna turn you into a scooby snak...)


Ok well if not tk then maybe fencer or swordsman substituted in the above equasions?.... um.. dude, tk has meditate... nuf said


Pikeman?- AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... *tears* dude stop, yer killing me.....


so will any melee career be viable after theproposed patch?

not bloody likely- at least not among those that know theira$$ from a hole in the ground.


Dev's PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE WARCRY - that is unless you're purposely trying to phase out melee combat....but if thats the case, just tell us you dont like melee and we'll all stop and become cm/riflemen... how exciting!


NIETSCHE - HOLO GRIND NEUTERED (But man, can I do your hair!)

RAMIEL - 2nd ACCOUNT purchased to offset Holo-grind boredom - TK-Master/Brawler-Master, Fencer 0040, Sword 0040, Rifleman 4040......... soon to be regaining a whole lotta points from all my melee careers


Galaxy: Narutis






So you don't watch your messages telling you that you have been poisoned. That isn't the fault of anyone but your own. Besides The drop rate on those things are now so low as to be all but imposible to find now. Maybe if you have an uber PvP guild harvesting them for you you might get a few. Ohh and that only ='s out to be about 100 DPS. Sure that is high against someone with tons of armor but low verses a wookiee. (God I already know Wookiees don't PvP(unless they PvP smart))



****************************
* Niccaurra {} Master DOC / Aspiring Merchant
*Niqe {DRUNK} TKM/Pist
****************************
NULLDISTANCE
Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:39 pm
#45

So you don't watch your messages telling you that you have been poisoned.

Um yes, as a matter of fact I do. What I'm saying is that in a multiple aggressor environment, you may not notice the poison chuckers for all the other people shooting at you.

That isn't the fault of anyone but your own. Besides The drop rate on those things are now so low as to be all but imposible to find now.

That is ludicrous to the point of being offensive. Before Xmas I averaged 2 holocrons per day.. Peko Peko albatross feathers anyone? Look Before the last patch the ONLY rare items in the game were Milk and server Crecent holocrons.

Maybe if you have an uber PvP guild harvesting them for you you might get a few.

Thats the people I'm talking about

Ohh and that only ='s out to be about 100 DPS.

Your comparing apples to oranges... Its not 100dps over 10 seconds it's a single hit for 1000 to the mind every ten seconds... A cigarette every day will kill you before old age as surely as a Shotgun blast to the head ... The end result is the same, but one seems to work alot more effectivley.

Sure that is high against someone with tons of armor but low verses a wookiee.

What armor stops poison?

(God I already know Wookiees don't PvP(unless they PvP smart))

Noone to blame for playing a wookie but your self pal. (possibly the dev's)



NULLDISTANCE
Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:43 pm
#46

*silver Crescent holocrons... not server
Henzo-Kauri
Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:46 pm
#47

Just wondering if we have heard any word back yet?
StGabriel
Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:06 pm
#48

I don't have anything to pass on yet. I'll try to make sure this stuff has been at least seen although I can't guarantee anything.

StGabe.



--- The Clan McDonnell ---

Gaffyn McDonnell -- Master of Blades (master fencer/swordsman/brawler)
Flynn McDonnell -- Master Weapon Smith (+22 exp), Armorsmith (+25 exp)
Lorrinne McDonnell -- Nightsister (pike/doc)

Marlow_Cat
Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:44 pm
#49

I think the main thing that makes warcry2 so overpowering is the 10 second delay inbetween. If the 30 second timer started after the warcry instead of before it, it would be a nerf but one that doesn't wreck a skill i.e. macro /warcry2 with /peace

On the subject of nerf, the same thing should be done for knockdowns. Kind of sick when I can keep 3 dizzy people constantly knocked down with lunge1(posture) and lunge2 (knockdown). If the timers started after they got back up I'd have much less control over a fight.

RaptosKhywalker
Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:28 pm
#50






NULLDISTANCE wrote:


Oh yeah and if you think you are overpowered, you obviously are beating up the wrong people...


I look at the game in terms of PVP versus INTELLIGENT and highly competitive players..




Ooh aren't we l33t?

Any idiot can master a career but it takes and INTELLIGENT person to master it in 3weeks?

All Master Bounty Hunters must be idiots for choosing that profession?

Nice attitude you have there, next post perhaps you can call mea "n00b" and tell me to "get sum skillz"


At which point in my post did I say I was overpowered in PvP? Which part talked about me beating players easily that they must just bekids from the special needscentre? I'llhelp you out with this one I DIDN'T


The skill is overpowered in PvE. I doubt the devs looked much at the PvP implications at all. Close to 75% of the players have yet to declare, that's the majority and they are NOT all artisans and entertainers. So far the dev team and SOE have shown little support for the GCW. I would say they were more concerned that players were able to solo things that they shouldn't. Warcry was probably the easiest to abuse in this respect and also the easiest to "fix" I imagine other professions will be suffering a similar fate inpublishes to come.


Will this ruin it's use in PvP? Well it'll obviouslynot be as effective. It certainly won't be the duel winner it can often be now but in the example you yourself gave, it WILL still delay that CM and kiting marksman. Whether it then resets their attacks or not will, imo, determine how much they have broken it for PvP. If it does then I think the Warcry ability will still be useful but Master Brawler will not be worth the points, think I can cope with the Warcry1 from Novice.






Well, I told you once, told you twice.
I told you before.
Just 'cause I'm the bad guy, don´t mean I'm gonna lose 'em all
The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my Guild, not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary
Barca
Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:51 pm
#51






ccmetal555 wrote:

Please guys, stop worrying about PvP. With no warcry at allPvP would still be fine. I'd like to focus this thread on the PvE aspect of warcry, where we will be taking an enormous hit!


With this new warcry how will we be able to tank big mobs? NoticeI did not say solo. Tank them. We need to be able to be in front of our party standing up to large mobs so our healers and ranged users aren't taking damage. Warcry played a large part of our tanking ability. With this nerf warcry helps for crowd control, but doesn't help a bit against single tough mobs. How can we address this issue?






Bethrezen is right, I have seen a particular BH/pistoleer running around spamming warcry. If a BH/pistoleer is picking up novice brawler instead of finishing pistoleer, there is a problem. Have fun with night sister elders if warcry gets the PVE nerf. I suggest that the Devs just change the coding for PC and NPCs. It cant be that hard can it? And I would suggest an effect to either stop or slow a targets movement to help stop the melee kiting, kinda like warcry, but keep it reasonable, like 15-20 meters.

I hope that made sense, I dont think I put enough thought into that one



[Barca Sunrunner]
"I'm not a swordsman,
just a carpenter with a bad attitude."
WDMKR
StGabriel
Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:30 pm
#52

Ok, I got a reply on this:

These changes are under consideration but IF anything happens it won't be until the combat rebalance.

Also I wouldn't want to say that these changes are the only possible changes. There would still be plenty of time to bring up any other suggestions that came out of the community. These were just what I dredged up after looking at the changes and reading the boards. Once this patch hits live you guys can give better feedback and send that to MasterOfCombat and myself.

StGabe.



--- The Clan McDonnell ---

Gaffyn McDonnell -- Master of Blades (master fencer/swordsman/brawler)
Flynn McDonnell -- Master Weapon Smith (+22 exp), Armorsmith (+25 exp)
Lorrinne McDonnell -- Nightsister (pike/doc)

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