Brawler Archive

Well right now in pure game mechanics, unarmed is really really difficult to get xp in without going after little blue mobs. The reason being is that you don't dish as much damage as you do at range, and you take more because you can't kite the mob. It's just math.

I think that an unarmed dude should be owned at range by a marksman. Guns>Fists. But in melee range one of two things, or a combination of the two must happen. Either

A) The unarmed guy must do more damage

or

B) The unarmed guy must take less damage.

Since unarmed people seem to be more effective in their skivies rather than armor, some method of damage avoidance might be cool. Like far more frequent counterattacks. That plus HAM costs for moves should be lowered. I can do like four specials and then I'm hurtin.

I don't have a problem doing good damage or gaining exp soloing. I pick missions that have yellow con mobs. I can get over 2000 exp in 5 minutes. Sure, if you go to Fort Tusken you can get that off of one Tusken, but that's if you're grouped and have a good medic around. I have never seen a ranged player attack as fast as I do, nor do as much damage per hit. I do 400-600 per hit while berzerked and I attack about 4 times every 3 seconds. All I do is Intimidate the mobs and they hardly do damage to me. Taking 3 yellows is quite doable without resting...as long as they're not attacking at once.

Has anyone else noticed that when were not tanking, the Marksmen run around in circles, thus making it harder for us to do damage / get experience in a group?

My suggestion to 'fix' brawlers, or make them better is - Creatures miss more often if the person is wielding a Brawler type weapon. Humanoid creatures hit brawlers more, and Creatures miss more often on bawlers in melee range. That would solve the problem of being hit so much, taking so much battle fatigue, taking mounds of wounds and thus making brawlers not wanting to tank.

I don't think it's a question of wether we want to be a tank or don't want to be a tank it's more a fact of life that in order for a "melee" class to be viable we need to be able to tank. As it stands now

1) I must get right next to a mob in order to hit it.

2)Creatures seem to agro on melee classes like bugs to a light.

3)I take heavy damage and will more than likely will die to group mobs.

What else is a melee supposed to do. I am the melee class. I need to get up close to attack. I will take heavy damage that even a medic will not heal in time. This maybe is a problem with the sheer ridiculaous damage everything currently does in the game including PCs. I think it's a non-issue of wether we want tanks in the game. In order to have viable melee classes at least one of them has to be able to hold the agro and the damage.

Add more dodging or blocking. This armor mentality ot taking more hits hurts one race really hard.

I would say "To 'Tank", and here are my reasons:

Brawlers in general will always take the most damage in a group from what i've seen. If you have a group without brawlers, its kind of a 20% chance (in a group of 5) that you'll be taking the most damage against a particular target. Now, i know onece you get into Teras Kasi Artist (and i'm assuming the polearm/swordsman as well) you'll get some knockdowns and such, but its really REALLY brutal leveling up unarmed brawler in comparison to any of the ranged weapons (even rifle).

Is there a reason to be a Brawler other than to get Commando or Smuggler? No. the only reason i'm doing unarmed right now is for that reason, and the only way i can even manage to level (and this is just barely) is using Health bleed, then switching over to uber knuckles.. and even then i'm getting minimal xp (62-100xp) and losing half of my health bar.. this never happened when i was using ranged.

If you're against giving them an added point bonus to "Tank" at least consider having them only being able to wear certain types of good armor.. say you reach teras kasi artist, you cert in wearing a type of armor (yeah, doesn't make much sense cert'ing in something you wear) but its all i can think of at the moment.

I'd really like to be able to play as a brawler, but as it stands now, there's no reason too. I'd rather just sit in the back taking pop shots with little risk of injury laughing in my head at the brawlers who are up close getting nailed on.

for the love of god, YES! were hardened fighters, were conditioned to go further, last longer than sissy run and gunners. we NEED to be able to take a punch. maybe not as extreme as the EQ warriors, but pretty close. in order to keep people from just taking some brawler class skills, we should get all our major bonuses in the elite professions. We need both the counterattack/dodge, AND a greatly increased defensive bonus

^_^x KD

Well, I never played EQ but in every thread on this board, I see a comparison to it and the classes here. I don't get it. You go from a fantasy game to a sci-fi game. To me it's a different set of rules. It's not just a conversion of EQ to a sci-fi world. I don't know about everyone else, but if a rancor swatted some guy with armor...he's still gonna go flying and it should still hurt quite a bit. Sure, it'd be less damage, but it'd still be good damage. You shouldn't be able to just stand there hacking away and take swat after swat from something that's 5 times your mass and not even flinch. You'd also think armor would make it EASIER for something to hit you because you're less mobile. Hmm...I think I'm going a little far afield, here. Sorry.

Anyway, if anything, melee people should have more dodging/blocking ability. Not be superhuman and able to withstand thousands of points of damage. Here's how I see how it should be...

Less armor = more mobility = more dodges/counters = more damage taken
More armor = less mobility = less dodges/counters = less damage taken

Also, how about the implimentation of shields for 1 handed combat? Just a thought for you fantasy people out there who want to compare.

As far as tanking goes, I don't think we should be "tanks". You go up against something that's big and bad, you're gonna get your ass kicked big and bad.

I'm at TKA, btw so yes, I'm melee and I still think this way. *GASP*

I kind of agree with wookinpanub that the physics should be taken into account. We can't ask to be superhuman and stand up to crazy circumstances. But we will have to ask for some kind of consession or the class will not be much fun to play.

For instance I would not get upset if a roncor beast rips my lungs out everytime I get near it. But on the other side of the coin I would like to be sneaking into a imperial or rebel compound and if spotted be able to fight my way out with blasters all around me. Laser Blasters should be much easier to defend against with light armor then a 8 foot vibro pole axe. So the anology of armor being useless or pointless for a brawler is crazy. Even the most powerful laser in the world can fairly easily be reflected or absorbed. Not so easy for a 500lb claw to be stopped by a piece of armor.

So tank perhaps but only in some circumstances.

Maybe what we are really looking for is a energy generated shield or force field.

Maybe the developers have to intent on letting melee be a sole solution to combat, maybe we are being secretly forced to carry a blaster. I don't like it but perhaps thats it.

lyv

Whoever is claiming brawlers do less damage than ranged: please just cancel your account, because it's so-not-true it's not even funny. Right now melee do a LOT more damaged than ranged. If you're not doing more, it's because you have a really crappy weapon.

Secondly, you guys need to wear armor. Saying you have to fight blues is hillarious. With armor on, I can easily solo yellows using nothing but 2H sword. When combined with Rifle from ranged, and then melee when they close, I can easily take on reds. Buy yourself a set of armor before claiming you can't fight anything harder than a blue and can't tank anything.

Yes, armor helps...it helps a LOT.

Oh...and for anyone but a wookie not using armor is NOT a viable option. I'm sorry, it's just not. Mobility...whatever. Taking less than half damage from attacks means your HAM stats have basically been doubled. And that's just with Chitin.

By the way, you guys realize that marksmen have insane damage multipliers to melee damage, especially riflemen. Saying a marksman can tank just as well as a brawler isn't even mathematically true. Maybe if they just put away their gun and sit there doing nothing, but that's not very effective, is it?

I don't think, having read through these posts, and played with a good number of Brawlers in game, that the Brawler class should be standing toe to toe with the likes of large 4k HAM mobs. If it takes a group 1 or 2 minutes to kill one, odds are, in that 1 or 2 minutes, it's going to clobber you if you try to tank it. I do agree, that we should be harder to hit, given our training and skill sets, but to absorb more damage, does not really make sense.

It has been stated, that melee is a secondary form of combat. That when in it's proper place, close quarters, battlefields, infiltration, is very deadly. But when it comes time to take out that 14K HAM giant, you're going to need a blaster.

I personally, using bits and pieces of armor, and a decent set of Vibro Knucklers, can take out 500-900 HAM whites pretty steadily. But as a solo Brawler, I do need to pick and choose my fights. I also don't expect to be able to go into every situation using my fists, so I have good skills with a carbine for those times that I don't feel like having to peel myself off the foot of some giant meanie.

I think, that when some of our other issues are fixed, the ones that I will be writing about and posting for you and sending to the devs (ham costs, special moves, defence, accuracy and hitting while moving, damage and speed) are addressed, you will be and feel much more effective in large groups going after big game, without having to actually turn you into a 'Tank'.