Brawler Archive

Having spent many years playing EQ, I learned to accept the fact that you needed certain classes in your group to get anything accomplished. One of the most important people, was a tank. Essentially a tank was a heavily armored melee meat shield that held the interest of the mob so that the other, more fragile players, could do their jobs and survive.

Since SWG is so versatile and greatly reduces the need for the perfect group to have fun, do you really think that we need to be the same type of tank that is in other games, or should we try and define ourselves differently?

To me, I'm not sure that I should be able to survive more hits from a Rancor then say a Medic, unless I have some armor on. I thinkyou should however be able to avoid a lot more hits. But issues like this will get addressed.

My question is, are Brawlers to you just the equivalent of an EQ tank, or is there more to being a melee fighter in SWG and perhaps people just want to make the class fit the EQ paradigm because that is what they are used to?

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Marshall Pat'richia

Gorath

Brawler Correspondent

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Spaz_Hairlip wrote:

Since SWG is so versatile and greatly reduces the need for the perfect group to have fun, do you really think that we need to be the same type of tank that is in other games, or should we try and define ourselves differently?

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I can agree that maybe the brawler and elite classes weren't meant to tank damage. But they should be able to survivelonger atclose range, maybe through dodge/counter skill instead, or the use of stun/lunge/warcry to decrease the enemy's attacking ability (although there'd have to be lower HAM costs to be able to use them effectively). A skilled fighter is definitely going to be able to avoid takingdamage in the first place. As it is now, enemies hardly ever miss, and I think I've counterattacked maybe 3 times since I started playing the game, so without a dedicated healer, or healing myself every other turn, I can't survive very long. It just doesn't seem right.

In other words, it seems like there's nothing else you CAN do as a brawler, as specials cost to much to use and don't work often enough to risk wasting time on them.

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Spaz_Hairlip wrote:

My question is, are Brawlers to you just the equivalent of an EQ tank, or is there more to being a melee fighter in SWG and perhaps people just want to make the class fit the EQ paradigm because that is what they are used to?

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Brawler in general should serve the same purpose as the EQ tank. BUT....

Because of the skill system in SWG, it allows for each brawler to be very different. Thus, you arent stuck with 500 paladins who are all identical. Thats what the benefit is here.

Or at least, that's the percieved idea. Too bad brawlers in general cant tank mid to high level creatures any better than marksmen can. Sony needs to give Brawlers a REAL tanking ability before we can discuss this as a viable role for them.

As a new Brawler and a cute Wookie girl to boot..... I chose Brawling solely for the unarmed skill - eventually, of course, I would like to make TK master. But I will NEVER tank.

Unarmed is a self-defense skill to me. Something to be used in PvP against antagonists or "evil" players or in wiping out meanaces to society (aka Nightspiders). That's the fun of it. Becoming a Gladiator later might be fun too...... But tanking is just a quick way to die.

Ourrania
Flurry

I wasn't trying to say that armor is useless. It IS useful in that it does take away some of the damage that's taken from attacks. HOWEVER, I also tried to say that it shouldn't mean that you're suddenly impervious to damage. That's why I was thinking you'd have to find a balance between using armor and not for the mobility aspect of it. It just seems crazy to me that people think you should be able to slap on some armor, get some melee training and you're suddenly able to take damage that'd destroy (geek time) an Imperial Battlecruiser.

well, i dont think anyones asking to be superhuman. I just think that a hardened battle vet whos seen a lot of sword to sword, fist to face action and taken many a beating should be able to stand up to that bianary pirates club more than some sissy artisan who just runs around surveying all the time.

A massive beast will still hurt, but we NEED more defnesive bonuses, whats the point of playing a brawler if your a straw man to the most basic critter?

and to the last guy, its already that way, i dont know any brawlers who dont carry a gun, that would just be suicidal the way its set up now.. well moreso than it already is

^_^x KD

Please NO!

I'm not a punching bag, I have to use trees to block shots at me, I use special moves to debuff my attackers, I'm a smart fighter I'm Not just a decoy.

Thats what i thaught when i was first going in, that i was going to be the tank, and that people were going to rely on me to be the meatshield. But in SWG, it seems to be different. I feel as if i have the same equal chance to defend against attacks and take hits as a Medic does, or an Artisan. I feel like theres no difference between other classes when it comes to tanking. I thaught there was, but really, there isnt. Any class can tank, and i think thats what SWG wanted, wanted to be a verstile game.

What sucks about that, it makes us brawlers feel even more useless. At times when in a large group hunting creatures, the Range will kill the target before it even gets to the group, rendering the Brawler totally useless.

Some brawlers, and some Marksmen say that brawlers are just there to die. And that seems mostly true.

Have you noticed HOW fast our Battle Fatigue, and how fast are Wounds climb? They climb 10x more then any other class. Yet we take the same type of damage, take the same damage, just more hits.

So, to add on to your question, Where do brawlers stand in combat? I thaught they would be better then Range, but it seems that Range is better then brawler, the ability to hit creatures 60 meters away with Crippling SHot, and Knockdown making battles trivial. And to top it off, there HAM Costs on there weapons are LOW compared to our own weapons. They dont get hit as much us, thus they can stay out longer, have lower battle fatigue and wounds.

IT seems that range is better then brawling, not visa versus, or even balenced. Our HAM Costs more, our -10/-10/10 hurts us more. We miss more. We take more damage. We have higher battle fatigue faster. We have higher Wounds. We die more. And some would say, Range does more damage. With Acid Rifles, and Bounty Hunters Eyeshot. So, where do Brawlers stand?

Did anyone read the part of the game manual that said ranged combat was the main type of combat in the game? Even the manual says that melee is secondary to ranged. I kind of understand your point that melee people are "hardened" against blows and such, but I don't see how you can become so harded that skin is as good as armor which would then stack onto that.

I see it, as I mentioned above, that the experience you gain in fighting would then translate to being hit less, not taking less damage. That's how I think the melee defense should be. You wear armor to take some of the damage away, but the experience is what keeps you from being hit every attack.

I think the game mechanics have forced the need for the brawler to become a tank. I can understand if the original plan was to not have need for a tank. But that's not how it is. Strong enemies do way too much damage for anyone to survive more than 2 or 3 hits. The marksman has a solution, stay far away so you can't get hit. The brawler has NO solution, if they're in close, they're gonna get hit, so they have to be able to tank the damage either through avoiding it or absorbing it (same thing in my book, just semantics). In this world, it makes more sense to avoid/parry it.

So really, I see no solution other than giving the brawler an enhanced ability to survive at close range.

ah yes, thats a good point. our fatigue and wounds climb through the roof very fast. With the current bug where your stats dont recver right after being healed from wounds this cripples some brawlers. i have Kenshin-dono semi-retired untill this is fixed arleady because i simply couldn't play him with 300 missing HP to my ham bars, and various stats on a daily basis.

if were not suposed to take dmg better than the other classes, then can someone fill me in on what the heck were suposed to be for then? in groups were utterly worthless, are worse than marksmen in just about every way, as the guy above mentions. were suposed to do more dmg in close, but thats really not the case,our aim is much worse, i mean cripes, a running marksman shooting over his shoulders about as accurate as we are in our ideal range, we dont take dmg any better than the other classes.. someone remind me what the point of a brawler is?

^_^x KD

In PvE, you would believe that we are supposed to tank. But you have to realize that we have the same HAM's as any other combat profession. The only difference is we have to get up close for us to be effective and we lack sufficient Melee defenses to actually 'melee'. Hell we might as well run in butt-naked at the amount of damage we take.

The only way for brawlers to be a 'tank' is to have a medic behind them, as in any other game. But in this game there is a noticible lack of medical personeel. So to be effective, brawlers must take up the medical profession themselves.

As for PvP, our roles are not to tank. We are not front-lin soilders. It is our job to Infiltrate and Assasinate. That's right, we go behind enemy lines, we pick our targets, and we pick them off one by one. How ever, to get behind the enemy requires tactics, and skills from the scout tree.

So no, we aren't really meant to tank in this game. We are like the Infiltrators, Nightshades, and Shadowguys from DAoC. We are fragile in PvE, but deadly in up-close one on one fighting.

jian, then that needs to be changed, or our profession needs to changed to assasins. we are not assasins we are BRAWLERS, a brawler is a tough SOB who can get in there and mix it up. We are not tough SOB's, we are straw men

^_^x KD