Brawler Archive
Thread: Discussion of Top Brawler Issues
I posted this idea in the Pikeman forum originally, but it really is a brawler-wide issue. I can accept that ranged fighters will always have an advantage over melee fighters. That makes sense and is realistic.
But it would also be more realistic, and beneficial to us in PvP, ifTHE TERRAINSTOPPED RANGED ATTACKS.
You're getting blasted, the guy keeps running away, so you duck into the nearest ravine. There are always ravines...this game should be called Ravine Wars. Tatooine is riddled with them and that planet doesn't have running water.
Anyway, you do this because you figure that if he's firing a straight-line weapon like a blaster and you're standing in a ditch, he won't be able to hit you...millions of World War I veterans can't be wrong.
But no. The blaster fire goes right through the ground and pelts you anyway. I've had laser duels with mercs on Lok where they were on the OTHER SIDE OF A MOUNTAIN. That's silly.
And don't tell me it's computationally too expensive. Asheron's Call 1 did this on 1999-era hardware, and they were a bunch of guys in a garage in Boston. Surelya company the size of Sony using modern hardware should be able to figure it out - they must have designed it this way on purpose - they should go back and re-examine that decision...I think it was a mistake.
Thanks.
--Insomnia
FYI, there is currently a change to Line of Sight on Test Center. In my experience it is a bit hit or miss. I find myself occasionally missing simply because I am fighting on a sharp incline. But it does basically seem to work. I haven't tested it extensively, so I can't say more.
StGabe.
I have to dissagre with the Master Brawler needs more Abilities/Boni Issue.
At the Moment you get Intimidate2, Warcry2 and Lunge2 wich are all _very_ usefull, i did some testing in duels against people who are either Master tka, Fencer or Swordman (im mtka,mfencer,mbrawler and a bit of Swordsman) and even against the Master Swordsman i have nearly always won the fight just becouse of my Brawler Abilitys (always using only brawler and the respective combat abilities my oponent also had).
And yes my overall Meeledefense would have helped alot.....if they even get a chance to hit me, but with warcry2 there really is no such chance.
Lunge2 is the one thing you can do against kiting, it doesn't dish out much damage but you can kill people from 15m away.
Intimidate2....not much to say, just awesome.
In comparsion to the Master Marksman who gets some Skillmods and overcharge shot2 we are more overpowered than anything else.
berserk2... as it is now just lasts longer. This is more of a pain than a benefit. I would think the 2nd version of this skill would be more damage, not longer berserk.
intimidate2... as it stands just lasts longer as well, now this is nice, but wouldn't it be better to reduce more damage? same as ubove, but more useful
lunge2... great, no problems with it really, if i don't get an "out of range" msg
The over all mods for master brawler is frankly, a joke. Now i'm not looking for a great many skill mods here, but as it stands it's no where near the cost of skill points to get. Not to mention not needed for any elite profession. So what you see is what you get only, and not just an added bonus on your way to another profession. I hate to say it, but it's sad. I'd say double the mods. Looking at the rest of the starting professions master boxes, brawler has the least benefits;
medic= +25 to 2 mods, +10 to one
scout=+10 to 5 mods, +25 to 2, and +15 to one
entertainer=+10 to 4 mods
artisan=none, but alot of schematics
brawler=+5 to important stats, +20 to unless skills. Come on, is there really a big difference to 10 warcry and 20 warcry? These + to intimidate and warcry don't do anything.
Suggestions..... double the mods. Find out what +intimidate/warcry accually do, if anything. Reduce time of berserk2 to the same as berserk1, but add another 50-75 damage. Intimidate2 should reduce more damage than int1.
This is just my opinion though.
gameplay
The one and only issue that should be stuffed down the developers throats till they gag on my gaffi baton is "THIS TARGET IS OUT OF RANGE"... when I'm standing on top of him, or when I'm following him 5m behind. If this gets fixed, pvp will actually have some joy, and I'll be able to do more then just lunge2.
-chee
1) kiting
making warcry stop running could help
2) terrain los for ranged
this is rediculous peps are shooting THROUGH mountains
3) reduced ham costs
4) more weapons choices,
5) increase benefits of master brawler higher melee def and or toughness would make it more worth it
I will honestly say that the few things I would like to see are:
1- I would like to see the agro be changed to the player (do not care about creature) doing the most damage. The reason for this is simple. If I am a ranged (blaster / riffle) character and I go with a group of friends, it is really irrelevant what skill level they are because I have the ability of staying away from any major creature they are fighting. NONE of the melee characters have this luxury. I can't group with friends that are higher levels than me because no matter how much damage they do, I still get attacked first. This means that I can't play or group with friends of a higher skill level than I am. This would help out with community as well as playability. I was with a group just 2 nights ago and we were hunting all together. There was a red that popped up about 50m away... did the creature attack anyone in the group that was in front of me? No.. it noticed the group and ran right past like 3 other people attacking it and came at me who was only working on healing at the time and had no weapon in my hand. I never attacked it with intimidate or warcry at all.
2- I would like to see "line of sight" for all ranged characters. Here is a clear cut example: Yesterday I was attacking some imps on Tat. I was in a cavern and I kept getting hit from someone that I couldn't see. There were 3 imps and I killed 2 of them. I couldn't ever find the other one. I kept running around looking for them. Come to find out they were in a parallel cavern at the max range away for their blaster shooting me through 2 caverns !!!! This is absolutely insane and makes no sense whatsoever. You would need serious force powers to ever pull that one off. *g* If this was accomplished you would see much better fighting techniques with ranged fighters. If people can duck behind a rock or jump down a cavern to avoid getting shot it would make the ranged people start using strategy and the melee people able to survive a little better. If they want to run around.. then fine.. You’ll just stay hunkered down behind that rock. *g* It would be horrible if when Han / Luke etc were running around the first death star that storm troopers could simply shoot through the walls they were hiding behind. Oh look they jumped down the garbage shoot. Oh well we can still shoot them from here.. they are still in range! *g*
3- I would like to see more fairness with DB's toward melee characters. Every time I go hunting with others I always have a 50% more likelihood of getting DB than any of my ranged friends. After they get incaped the creature / npc usually goes and attacks the next person down the line.
4- I would love to see better tanking ability. Honestly, unless you get TKA none of the other melee (basic or elite) professions have any decent dodge or damage taking ability. It would seem that if someone was a master at hand to hand combat that, they would at least be able to predict someone aiming a gun at them and dodging the blast. I know we will never be able to dodge every shot made, but it could be just a little better than what it is now.
5- Dual welding for 1 handed (fencers / pistoleers).... I think enough has been requested about this already.. but one can always hope 
6- Graphic fixes for weapon users. I am tired of seeing a viroblade the length of a dagger. I am tried of the graphics looking like I am sawing my leg off when I sit down. I am tired of chopping my head off every time I salute with a blade in my hand. I am tired of not being able to sheath my sword when I walk into town. Will Jedi be required to have their blades drawn all the time when we seen them walking around? humm...
7- More and flexable armor for different classes with reduced penalties / specialties, and wearable only by melee classes. (A lot to ask for but not totally unreasonable).
That about sums up my ideas... Some are extravagant.. many are the same ones that have been hashed around for a while now...
Pah'Addino: medic/fencer
- Perhaps I'm just too used to EQ or DAoC, but the primary issue that I see for Brawlers is the method that experience is awarded. On starter planets against most mobs we are useless when in group, and lets face it, thats where most of us are Brawlers, as opposed to Fencer, TKA, etc.. Most marksman can take out a MoB before it even reaches the party. I know this has turned away every single brawler that was ever in my guild. They simply never got experience if they were in a group, forcing them to solo (not much fun) or have melee only groups. Solutions to this could be that half of a MoB's XP value is evenly divided among the party while the other half is divided up based on damage. This would allow pistoleer doctors to heal without worrying that they aren't going get any pistol xp and would allow brawlers to "hold the line" until mobs reach the party. This would also allow commandos to be in a group again.
-More weapons are needed and hte entire certification method needs to be reworked. We need a choice of fast/low damage vs slow/high damage weapons for every brawler line. Unarmed needs a weapon, since VK's are now in the TKA territory.
- Brawlers need something within the Brawler line that allows them to "pull" mobs to them. I swear Taunt used to do this (i took a hiatus from brawler for a couple months), but now the only way I can seem to do it is to throw traps or usea ranged weapon. We don't need it to do damage, just throw a rock or something to get their attention.
I've used the info in this thread and others to compile a rough draft of a State of the Brawler Profession which is being reviewed right now. I will try to find some time soon to make some final edits and get that posted up here. Then you guys can tell me what you think about how I've addressed the relevant issues, etc. It may take me a few days I'm afraid as I have a paper deadline looming at the moment.
In the meanwhile, keep posting. =)
StGabe.
I only play the unarmed tree from brawler so I'm going to limit my feedback to that tree. My issues with the brawler tree ( unarmed ) break down as follows:
Balance
Brawlers are currently vastly unbalanced against the ranged classes. This seems is especially true for unarmed but does even out in the TKA tree. I'd suggest some of these skills be brought down into brawler.
Damage
Brawlers don't do anywhere near enough damage. I'm far better off with a marksmen pistol level 4 than unarmed level 4. I believe this is related to the balance above. The marksmen gets a number of bonus from a well designed weapon. Unarmed currently has none of these advantages. I'd suggest either introducing some weapons for unarmed into the lower level unarmed tree. Maybe gloves, brass knuckles etc...
XP
The XP I get on a normal kill is crazy low. I think is largely related to the damage issue above, especially when grouped with ranged members that are doing 500 dmg at very fast speeds. Getting to TKA is a very long haul, even compared to Bounty Hunter or Commando and their Combat XP requirement.
Near Master Swordsman chiming in here. 4/4/3/3 currently. I hear alot of people saying add more stuff to master brawler. I'd like to take the time to disagree on that issue. I couldn't imagine life without master brawler. I use warcry2, lunge2, intimidate2, and even Berserk2, on a regular basis. Different combinations of these skills have some interesting, and brutally effective uses. And personally I like the high costs. I think it justifies what you can accomplish with them. I do however think that there should be more intimidate/berserk/ & Warcy modifiers higher up the elite trees. That will increase the effectiveness of these moves. Or just spread em out along the brawler tree. (as a side note, tailor enhanced clothing does help withthis) As far as the high ham costs go, well get some buffs, chow or drugs. Thats what they're there for. I find that brawler really benefits greatly from all the available help from other classes. In closing, Master Brawler is probably the best skillpoint investment i've made yet. I'd get into specifics as to why, but those are my personal huntin' strategies =)
Unarmed is Fine the way it currently is Except for the Massive jump in EXP needed to go from unarmed 3 to 4.
As for everyones ideas that unarmed needs a brass knuckle or glove!!
People Read the Class!
UN ARMED
That means NO WEAPONS!!
so for my idea i say NERF all the skill points given for the use of Vibro knucklers as they are a Weapon and do not Qualify as Unarmed combat!!