Brawler Archive
Thread: ATTENTION ALL!!! COMBAT BALANCE DISPARITY!!!
Anyone else find it amusing that it was said to be fairly obvious on which was unbalancing, when the attack stats such as accuracy and speed weren't even posted?
Vyn_Drayko wrote:
Time to steer this back on track. Charvacas go to the BH forum and ask how we do in PvP. You'll hear very well how it is from those who play MBH.
I see lots of posts from MBHs about how they do well in pvp...
antares
master pikeman
ZechtWisto wrote:
This thread is pretty dumb... think about it. As of now BH's pretty much rule the battlefield with eyeshot. They can shut down pretty much anyone with eye shot, and they even have room left for novice medic so they can use Stim B's (which i also think should be fixed).
When was the last time you PVP'ed with a BH? The damage on eyeshot was nerfed, it only hits 50% of the time at best, and anyone wearing a comp helm will scoff at you for using it, as they walk over to DB you.
Eyeshot is about useless atm, with 50%+ miss rates and almost complete negation against a helmeted opponent.
The only people using eyeshot, on the whole, are dabblers who bought into the myth of it being godly, which it hasn't been for quite some time now.
With eyeshot I'm lucky to get a 30pt hit against an opponent with a decent helmet on...when I was hvy swordsman I could occasionally still one shot someone with mind hit 3.
Ludakrishna wrote:
damage? haha those bhs do NOTHING IN PVP!!! i laugh at them
Try wearing a helmet (other than kinetic ubese) and moving.
Also was this SS taken before or after the defense mods went into effect?
BubbleVicious wrote:
VikaLine wrote:
... what other pistol users can target the mindpool and put a burn on there opponet -none-
Any pistoleer that takes Rifleman and Commando, which they have more than enough pts to do...and they have the points to master all 2 of them and still take FT3 out of commando, which creates a much nastier build than the 217pt BH.
Excuse me but then there not using a pistol to shoot the mindpool there using a RIFLE.... I fail to see how your argument holds up.
i am a master bh, so perhaps my view is biased, however, i am happy with the amount of dmg that we do, and the majority of specials that we have. And would only like to see a few changes in these areas, howerver i do feel that we do not hit enough. therefore i propose that we bh's get nodefences(remove our alreadyminimal ones) and instead at mbh we should get massive accuracy boosts, say about +50 to all our weapons ( this could be spread throughout the tree if need be, although currently there is not much incentive to master the proffesion, and this could be it). This would make us a purly offensive proffession and would ensure that 1v1 we would be feared but against more players we would be an easy target. This would enhance the bh proffession greatly, placing more emphasis on quick surprise tactics to take down a single target. I do not want to be a tank, i should not be able to tank mofo creatures or groups of players, however i should be able to hit them fast and get out before im swamped.
The problem comes in in that BH MUST use up 217 pts to get Master with a pidly 33 pts left over... for that many points for such crappy defense... BH suck... I tried doing BH once and the lack of defense especially PvP made me give it up.
I can assure you someone using up all their points in Brawler / Fencer / Pistoleer and the left over into Medic 1/0/0/0 will own a BH every time, basicaly the BH won't be able to hit him... same would go for PvE.
Commandos must only use 169 pts to get master leaving 81 to spend elsewhere. At Master his defense kinda sucks like the BH BUT he then takes Master Carbineer... he now has counterattack (+20), def vs KD (+20), ranged def (+25).. not great but better than BH... uses the carbine to KD / Dizzy, then goes in with FT and toasts his opponent.
There are probably much better examples of what a Commando can do with those extra 81 pts than the above but I need to get back to playing the game.
Yah BH can do a lot of damage IF they can hit their opponent but more often than not the opponent will avoid the BH'sattempts to hit them while they inturn will NOT be missing the BH with their shots regardless of what weapon they are using.
Nerf the other professions... FCK NO!!!!! Give BH some more def. I'd rather have a longer drawn out battle with someone because we both have good defense rather than a short quick battle because one or both of use have sh!tty def. Best fight I ever had PvP was the 2 of use trying to take each other out that took a good 5mins... now that was fun... rather than.. hey a red target... Cloning Please Wait...
Xodarap777 wrote:
I wrote this on the dev forums, as a reply, and it fits okay here:
Xodarap777 wrote:
aries_liak wrote:
You have built a game where the only ability to compete with another person is to spend your time grinding out 3 primary professions. TKA, pistoleer, fencer. Once that combo is achieved a player can compete on par with his other fellow players in combat with one another.
It's too bad that people have only discovered ONE possible combination of combat professions for power gaming. First, there are roles to be played. The one you have mentioned is called a tank. Use your fists or knucklers with this combo and you'll lose your sacred dodging ability, as it is weapon-specific (to pistols and 1H swords), so the TKA is only for the melee/ranged defenses. Pistols and swords don't do close to the damage (at a time or per second on average) as most other weapons classes, hence the tank role: this person is there to "take" damage (to distract the offense), so that damage-dealing classes, like commandos, can get their attacks in without having to get killed (since they can't take much damage, without crap for defense abilities). Since the tank is redundant with creatures, this class combo is superfluous, and thereby ineffective. Too bad you haven't thought of that. MCHs spend far less SP for several tanks, and they can add to that their own offensive abilities.
This is not to mention that the "dodge combo," created by stacking pistoleer and fencer dodge bonuses, is erroneously seen as unfairly "uber." Carbineer and Swordsman counterattacks stack just as well, as do rifleman/pikeman blocks. They are all the same in effect. Still, this is a tanking combo, which is unnecessary because of CHs.
The problem here is that everyoneb!tches about what one combat class can do, and yet they can't. And everyone thinks that the ability they don't have is the better one. Watch as those people switch over, only to complain that a third class has an ability they don't have, which is, again, seen as better. They're all a bunch of whiney 5-year-olds who want whatever the other kids are playing with. Untilthey have it.
I have played every class in the game except for image designer, musician (thought it redundant with dancer), chef, and politician. I have enjoyed them all in their own right. I probably enjoy my high-damage commando/TKA character the best in combat, although he dies MUCH faster than my low-damage dodge-tank character. He also kills MUCH faster. THAT'S CALLED BALANCE. There's balance in differences. It would suck tomake all of us the same. The dodge-tank can whine all day that they should be able to do the damage the commando/TKA can do ("I spent just as many skill points!"), and the commando/TKA could whine all day that they should be able to stay alive like the dodge-tank. The two should group, as far as I'm concerned, and utilize each others' talents in complement. If they want to solo, however, they should choose whichever they want. You can't have everything.
As far as the grind goes... welcome to another MMO! If you can't manage to have fun, you're being a powergamer. Fine by me if that's what you want to be, but don't complain about the natural consequences. For non power-gamers, there's richness in conversation at the med centers and starports. There's beauty in the diverse landscapes of the many planets. There's fun in duelling your buddies or participating in player-made events. I am, myself, a powergamer, but I manage to enjoy the downtime when I can, and try not to be too impatient. I don't have to be able to kill anyone and everyone that challenges me... Think of real-life martial artists and combatants. To be good at what they do, they had to grind. A LOT! I'm sure Chuck Norris put in a TON of work, most of it far from enjoyable. But your average black belt can pack a punch, and can have a life, too. It's up to you which you want to be.
Don't blame the devs!
BH is a tactical profession, with varied and diverse, interesting and powerful specials. They get a wide range of weapons, for each ofwhich they get WAY more positive modifiers than even the elite weapon classes for those weapons. Whoever's a BH here that's complaining about pistoleers has obviously never been one. I've been both an MBH and a master pistoleer, and there's NO CONTEST. Master pistoleers don't even hit their own speed cap, and they don't have close to MBH accuracy. Their specials suck. Not only do they lack the ability (like an MBH) to hit mind and to do fire DOT, but their few high-damage specials have horrible DPS (average damage per second, due to the gross reloading time).Of course, if you combine the MBH bonuses with pistoleer, it looks a lot different. Still, dodging half the time doesn't make up for worthless specials and bad accuracy.
MBHs' DPS is one of the best in the game. I'm serious, do the math. And DPS is really what counts. No, they aren't up to par with TKAs, but they don't have to stay on top of someone, either (a real pain, believe me!).
BHs really should stop complaining and learn to use their profession. I enjoyed it, and sometimes I still play my MBH. When I don't, it's a matter of taste, not 1337 frustration that I'm not "uber" enough...
I agree with your long post (although you are mistaken, that a commando can even think about outdamageing a pistoleer). But i have to say something about MBH and Pistoleer:
Take the same amount of skillpoints:
Template 1: MBH
Template 2: 0244 Pistoleer/0040 BH
Both used the same skillpoints, both should be comparable. The strength of the BH lies in the Scatter pistol, but both have access to it. Both can target the Mind Pool. Template 2 has higher accuracy (will hit tanks more often), has higher speed (always hits speed cap) and higher damage specials.
Lets just compare torso shot to stopping shot:
Stopping shot: 4.500 DPS (1.125 in PvP)
Torso Shot: 800 DPS (200 in PvP) + Burn DoT 1.200 (300 in PvP)
Okay stopping shot won by far.
If we would compare eyesshot we have the choice between tagetting the mind pool or obliterating the target.
You can try to turn the tides several times.
Template 2 is more accurate, faster in some cases, has more specials, has higher damage specials and better defense Mods.
Overall: Template 2 is better.
Do not try to compare a MBH to dabblers, he will always lose. This is my prime urge. I want MBH to be better than dabblers. Spread out the speed and accuracy modifiers through the whole tree. Do the same for commando.
This is what should be done.
But right now a MBH or a Master Commando is rather sad to behold in PvP.
Dogg
or the above would work as well for BH
DarkShade9 wrote:
i am a master bh, so perhaps my view is biased, however, i am happy with the amount of dmg that we do, and the majority of specials that we have. And would only like to see a few changes in these areas, howerver i do feel that we do not hit enough. therefore i propose that we bh's get nodefences(remove our alreadyminimal ones) and instead at mbh we should get massive accuracy boosts, say about +50 to all our weapons ( this could be spread throughout the tree if need be, although currently there is not much incentive to master the proffesion, and this could be it). This would make us a purly offensive proffession and would ensure that 1v1 we would be feared but against more players we would be an easy target. This would enhance the bh proffession greatly, placing more emphasis on quick surprise tactics to take down a single target. I do not want to be a tank, i should not be able to tank mofo creatures or groups of players, however i should be able to hit them fast and get out before im swamped.