Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Were Players forced to PvP?
NewEye wrote:Ok...tell you what. Lets be true to the movies(since this game is based on them) When a Rebel Jedi happens across an Imperial Jedi then they cause a TEF to EACH other. They may then attack each other. It makes no sense that Rebel and Imperial Jedi are grinding together. I would definately go for that and it would be true to form. Also, reinstate player bounties that are triggered by players as someone stated in another post. When you perform an action against the Hutt and you as a Bounty Hunter are in good standing with the Hutt then you can track and extinguish the mark that the Hutt has given you. Same goes for Imperial and Rebel. THAT WOULD BE AWESOME AND TRUE TO THE MOVIES.
Hmmmm... according to the movies, there was no such thing as an Imperial Jedi... you were either a Jedi (and an enemy of the Empire) or you were a Sith lord... anything other than that, including "dark Jedi", belongs firmly in the EU. (And I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the expanded universe).
NewEye wrote:
Do you not consider a sith lord or a dark jedi imperial? Are they not opposed to the rebellion? Who was Darth Vader? Was he simply a rebel in imperial clothing? (Since as you put it only Jedi are Rebels)
The Sith lords *were* the Empire... but a Sith is not a Jedi. The Jedi, as you probably know, "were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic". When Palpatine became Emperor, he declared all Jedi enemies of the Empire. Therefore, you could not possibly be a Jedi *and* a part of the Empire, unless of course you managed to hide your Jedi status to all Imperial officers around you. A Jedi, by definition, would stand alongside those who sought to restore the Old Republic. Therefore, the term "Imperial Jedi", if you were to go strictly by the movies, would be an oxymoron.
Message Edited by ALARIA on 11-08-2005 06:24 AM
According to Star Wars Expanded Universe fiction, the Sith Order, or cult, was first established when dissident Jedi came to believe that "true" power was achieved not through pensive meditation, as taught by their Jedi Masters, but through emotion. The tension between the Jedi and these dissident Dark Jedi grew until conflict erupted, seven thousand years before the Battle of Yavin. This conflict, called the Hundred-Year Darkness, the Second Great Schism of the Jedi Order, led to the Dark Jedi being banished by the Old Republic. These outcasts found a new home on the distant planet of Korriban, a desolate world inhabited by the relatively primitive Sith people. However, the Force flowed strongly with these Sith, allowing them to create their own brand of black magic. The Dark Jedi saw this as an opportunity to gain additional power. Using their training in the Force, the Dark Jedi amazed the Sith and elevated themselves to god-like status on Korriban, becoming the rulers of the Sith people. As years passed, and interbreeding occurred between the Dark Jedi and the Sith, the term "Sith" came to mean not the original insect-like inhabitants of Korriban, but their Dark Jedi masters as well. It is from this rise to power and integration into Sith culture that the term Dark Lord of the Sith was first conceived as a title bestowed upon the leader of the Sith Empire by a council of lesser Sith Lords. Sometime during the early history of the Sith Empire, the coming of the Sith'ari, the prophesied savior of the Sith Order, was foretold. The Sith'ari was said to be a perfect being who would rise to power and bring balance to the Force. According to prophecy, the Sith'ari would rise up and destroy the Sith, but in the process would return to lead the Sith and make them stronger than ever before, a striking parallel to the Chosen One of Jedi legend, though it is most likely that the Sith'ari and Chosen One are one and the same.
Seeing a pattern of Dark Jedi in regards to the Sith? Emphasis on JEDI
NewEye wrote:According to Star Wars Expanded Universe fiction, the Sith Order, or cult, was first established when dissident Jedi came to believe that "true" power was achieved not through pensive meditation, as taught by their Jedi Masters, but through emotion. The tension between the Jedi and these dissident Dark Jedi grew until conflict erupted, seven thousand years before the Battle of Yavin. This conflict, called the Hundred-Year Darkness, the Second Great Schism of the Jedi Order, led to the Dark Jedi being banished by the Old Republic. These outcasts found a new home on the distant planet of Korriban, a desolate world inhabited by the relatively primitive Sith people. However, the Force flowed strongly with these Sith, allowing them to create their own brand of black magic. The Dark Jedi saw this as an opportunity to gain additional power. Using their training in the Force, the Dark Jedi amazed the Sith and elevated themselves to god-like status on Korriban, becoming the rulers of the Sith people. As years passed, and interbreeding occurred between the Dark Jedi and the Sith, the term "Sith" came to mean not the original insect-like inhabitants of Korriban, but their Dark Jedi masters as well. It is from this rise to power and integration into Sith culture that the term Dark Lord of the Sith was first conceived as a title bestowed upon the leader of the Sith Empire by a council of lesser Sith Lords. Sometime during the early history of the Sith Empire, the coming of the Sith'ari, the prophesied savior of the Sith Order, was foretold. The Sith'ari was said to be a perfect being who would rise to power and bring balance to the Force. According to prophecy, the Sith'ari would rise up and destroy the Sith, but in the process would return to lead the Sith and make them stronger than ever before, a striking parallel to the Chosen One of Jedi legend, though it is most likely that the Sith'ari and Chosen One are one and the same.
Seeing a pattern of Dark Jedi in regards to the Sith? Emphasis on JEDI
And like you pointed out... that's Expanded Universe, it's not the SW movies.
Message Edited by NewEye on 11-08-2005 09:41 AM
Do all women who play this game feel this way? Just curious. Cause I don't see many men objecting. Don't flame me; just an observation.
Message Edited by NewEye on 11-08-2005 09:43 AM
There is a large contingent of Jedi and Bounty Hunters who did not enjoy the Jedi Bounty system, male and female. Personally, I found in interesting and exciting...for about the first 2 weeks. After that, it just mainly was an annoyance and cut into my playtime, and was about a 75/25 chance to end with a string of tells from my opponent. If it wasn't hate tells, it was "GG, I would have beat you if ...." excuses, or them asking me for my template or what specials I used or what stats my saber had or something. On the rare occasions when I was killed, I'd still end up with strings of tells more often than not. There was the always-lovely "I PWNED JOO!" ones, and then the "Sorry dude, I know it sucks. I have a Jedi too" ones. Don't get me wrong, I liked the friendly tells and even the excuses a lot better than the hate/gloat tells, but in the end, all of them are just adding to the interruption of whatever I was doing at the time. On a good day, I get about 3 to 3.5 hours of playtime a night. A BH encounter, start to finish, is pretty much guaranteed to suck up anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes on average. Some longer. Thats a significant portion of time, especially if I'm in the middle of doing something else. Its sort of like having your time taken away from you. It was even worse when I'd be out with guildies or friends doing something, and not only is my time wasted, but there's is too because they're waiting on me. Win, lose, draw, good fight, bad fight, friendly afterwards, angry afterwards...I pretty much always ended up just seeing it as an interruption after the first two weeks. This is all, of course, not to mention that the bounty system meant I couldn't go afk just to go to the bathroom or let my dogs outside for even a minute or two, without risking death or going to a safehouse.
Did I personally KNOW that this was going to happen to me when I became a Jedi? Yeah, I knew. I was pre-pub9, but I wasn't one of the first on my server or anything. I knew about player bounties, and I knew about saberTEF, and I knew having a Jedi would be painting a great big "Come get some!" sign on my back. Yes, I did it anyway, and yes, I tolerated everything I had to tolerate. But that doesn't mean that I LIKED it. It means I put up with it. I became a Jedi in spite of all that stuff, not because of it.
And now they're changing the profession, making it no more powerful than any other, and taking away the remaining risks/penalties like the player bounty system. No love lost here. Doesn't much matter to me that I'm not teh ewbur anymore with my Jedi. That wasn't why I went there in the first place.
Ultimately, tho, we all (Jedi and BH, alike) brought this conclusion on ourselves. The original Dev/Design team presented us with a very delicate dynamic, matching two unbalanced classes together for high stakes, disadvantaged PvP. It was a system that required maturity and discipline to be successful. We pretty much proved that, as a whole, we were incapable of either. Over its lifespan, the Jedi Bounty system was one of the most exploited in the game. Worse, it was sometimes used as a griefing tool for particular BHs to harass particular Jedi.
Forced PvP? Not forced PvP? Jedi = PvP class? These questions are really irrelevant. The bottom line is that this system was a failure, in that it generated less fun than it created, on the whole.
Tight Goatfinger - Zabrak Teras Kasi Mystic
Waxen Wane - Reformed Force Choker of Gungans
Proud Intrepidean since Launch
By far the best post I have seen by a Player vs Player opponant. Fantastically written and I seriously respect THAT opinion. The things that gripes peopleis when they are down, knowing they will lose the battle and kicking sand in their face. Do you agree?
FernGully wrote:
NewEye wrote:
Judihah <----------- Feeling that it is futile to argue with someone who is NEVER wrong./give up Judihah/tell Pussycat I defer to your rantings, you win, I can't take it anymore./incap selfOh.. and shut up cause my sabers bigger than yours. (Since this coversation has turned sour from the last poster)Message Edited by NewEye on 11-08-2005 09:41 AM
Do all women who play this game feel this way? Just curious. Cause I don't see many men objecting. Don't flame me; just an observation.
Message Edited by NewEye on 11-08-2005 09:43 AM
Objecting to what? The existence of player bounties?
There is a large contingent of Jedi and Bounty Hunters who did not enjoy the Jedi Bounty system, male and female. Personally, I found in interesting and exciting...for about the first 2 weeks. After that, it just mainly was an annoyance and cut into my playtime, and was about a 75/25 chance to end with a string of tells from my opponent. If it wasn't hate tells, it was "GG, I would have beat you if ...." excuses, or them asking me for my template or what specials I used or what stats my saber had or something. On the rare occasions when I was killed, I'd still end up with strings of tells more often than not. There was the always-lovely "I PWNED JOO!" ones, and then the "Sorry dude, I know it sucks. I have a Jedi too" ones. Don't get me wrong, I liked the friendly tells and even the excuses a lot better than the hate/gloat tells, but in the end, all of them are just adding to the interruption of whatever I was doing at the time. On a good day, I get about 3 to 3.5 hours of playtime a night. A BH encounter, start to finish, is pretty much guaranteed to suck up anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes on average. Some longer. Thats a significant portion of time, especially if I'm in the middle of doing something else. Its sort of like having your time taken away from you. It was even worse when I'd be out with guildies or friends doing something, and not only is my time wasted, but there's is too because they're waiting on me. Win, lose, draw, good fight, bad fight, friendly afterwards, angry afterwards...I pretty much always ended up just seeing it as an interruption after the first two weeks. This is all, of course, not to mention that the bounty system meant I couldn't go afk just to go to the bathroom or let my dogs outside for even a minute or two, without risking death or going to a safehouse.
Did I personally KNOW that this was going to happen to me when I became a Jedi? Yeah, I knew. I was pre-pub9, but I wasn't one of the first on my server or anything. I knew about player bounties, and I knew about saberTEF, and I knew having a Jedi would be painting a great big "Come get some!" sign on my back. Yes, I did it anyway, and yes, I tolerated everything I had to tolerate. But that doesn't mean that I LIKED it. It means I put up with it. I became a Jedi in spite of all that stuff, not because of it.
And now they're changing the profession, making it no more powerful than any other, and taking away the remaining risks/penalties like the player bounty system. No love lost here. Doesn't much matter to me that I'm not teh ewbur anymore with my Jedi. That wasn't why I went there in the first place.
Ultimately, tho, we all (Jedi and BH, alike) brought this conclusion on ourselves. The original Dev/Design team presented us with a very delicate dynamic, matching two unbalanced classes together for high stakes, disadvantaged PvP. It was a system that required maturity and discipline to be successful. We pretty much proved that, as a whole, we were incapable of either. Over its lifespan, the Jedi Bounty system was one of the most exploited in the game. Worse, it was sometimes used as a griefing tool for particular BHs to harass particular Jedi.
Forced PvP? Not forced PvP? Jedi = PvP class? These questions are really irrelevant. The bottom line is that this system was a failure, in that it generated less fun than it created, on the whole.
Thank you for an intelligent and well-thought out post. You really do seem to have hit the nail in the head, a lot of the questions that still draw heated responses -- they really are irrelevant at this point. And I couldn't agree with you more that the system, on the whole, was a failure, I saw a lot of ruined friendships as a result of the animosity between players with Jedi toons and those with BH toons (of course some of us played both professions).
There is a large contingent of Jedi and Bounty Hunters who did not enjoy the Jedi Bounty system, male and female. Personally, I found in interesting and exciting...for about the first 2 weeks. After that, it just mainly was an annoyance and cut into my playtime, and was about a 75/25 chance to end with a string of tells from my opponent. If it wasn't hate tells, it was "GG, I would have beat you if ...." excuses, or them asking me for my template or what specials I used or what stats my saber had or something. On the rare occasions when I was killed, I'd still end up with strings of tells more often than not. There was the always-lovely "I PWNED JOO!" ones, and then the "Sorry dude, I know it sucks. I have a Jedi too" ones. Don't get me wrong, I liked the friendly tells and even the excuses a lot better than the hate/gloat tells, but in the end, all of them are just adding to the interruption of whatever I was doing at the time. On a good day, I get about 3 to 3.5 hours of playtime a night. A BH encounter, start to finish, is pretty much guaranteed to suck up anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes on average. Some longer. Thats a significant portion of time, especially if I'm in the middle of doing something else. Its sort of like having your time taken away from you. It was even worse when I'd be out with guildies or friends doing something, and not only is my time wasted, but there's is too because they're waiting on me. Win, lose, draw, good fight, bad fight, friendly afterwards, angry afterwards...I pretty much always ended up just seeing it as an interruption after the first two weeks. This is all, of course, not to mention that the bounty system meant I couldn't go afk just to go to the bathroom or let my dogs outside for even a minute or two, without risking death or going to a safehouse.
Did I personally KNOW that this was going to happen to me when I became a Jedi? Yeah, I knew. I was pre-pub9, but I wasn't one of the first on my server or anything. I knew about player bounties, and I knew about saberTEF, and I knew having a Jedi would be painting a great big "Come get some!" sign on my back. Yes, I did it anyway, and yes, I tolerated everything I had to tolerate. But that doesn't mean that I LIKED it. It means I put up with it. I became a Jedi in spite of all that stuff, not because of it.
And now they're changing the profession, making it no more powerful than any other, and taking away the remaining risks/penalties like the player bounty system. No love lost here. Doesn't much matter to me that I'm not teh ewbur anymore with my Jedi. That wasn't why I went there in the first place.
Ultimately, tho, we all (Jedi and BH, alike) brought this conclusion on ourselves. The original Dev/Design team presented us with a very delicate dynamic, matching two unbalanced classes together for high stakes, disadvantaged PvP. It was a system that required maturity and discipline to be successful. We pretty much proved that, as a whole, we were incapable of either. Over its lifespan, the Jedi Bounty system was one of the most exploited in the game. Worse, it was sometimes used as a griefing tool for particular BHs to harass particular Jedi.
Forced PvP? Not forced PvP? Jedi = PvP class? These questions are really irrelevant. The bottom line is that this system was a failure, in that it generated less fun than it created, on the whole.
Tight Goatfinger - Zabrak Teras Kasi Mystic
Waxen Wane - Reformed Force Choker of Gungans
Proud Intrepidean since Launch
By far the best post I have seen by a Player vs Player opponant. Fantastically written and I seriously respect THAT opinion. The things that gripes peopleis when they are down, knowing they will lose the battle and kicking sand in their face. Do you agree?
==============================================================
Dang, New-eye. I was about to catagorise you with the rest of the kiddies for so many past poor posts.
But your ability to be supportive and constructive in the face of contraversy caught me off guard, and Im afraid Im going to have to raise you up a few respect notches after all. DANGIT!
And, I concure Whole heartedly with the above post you yourself commented on. Thats the kind of statement that should Start a thread. Not be burried in the middle of one. Hugsies Fern. ALARIA.
NewEye wrote:
See...even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then!
/salute fellow intrepidean