Bounty Hunter Archive

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WookieOgre wrote:

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NarfBlinko wrote:

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You failed to notice that Tanks was saying this bonus would only be in effect on BH missions, not in general. If it were just an in general mod, it would be gamebreaking, but not if it was only on BH missions. I would support such a mod and I'll tell you why. Who gets the ability to take missions to hunt Jedi? BHs at Inv 3, apparently. It was originally set up where only MBHs could do this. I say go back to that, no more of this pseudo-BH crap. Also, as a MBH, assuming no other elite combat professions, you are CL54, where Jedi are usually much higher. If you gain the ability to hunt Jedi at CL54, you should actually have a reasonable chance at succeeding. Under the current system, no MBH is going to be taking down Jedi without another elite combat profession of some kind. I read all this about the proper templated BH can take knights, but I'd argue that, assuming a MBH is the only one who can get a Jedi mission, a MBH should be able to take a knight, 1 on 1, with tactics, without relying on skills from another combat profession, at least some of the time. Just my .0000002cr.

Narf

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Wait a minute, are you saying just a CL54 player with only MBH should be able to take down a completed template (or Knight lol) that has a full 250 skill points dedicated to combat?

If so that is not only completely backwards to how the devs have the currently system(meaning you MUST have all points dedicated to combatinorder to compete)but is just insane that you think a Master Chef / Master BH should take down a Knight, not even a Padawan lol.

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If the MBH cannot take down the marks that he has access to, then what is the point of him having access to them? Now, if the BH terms only showed missions on a level with the BH, then there wouldn't be a problem, but that isn't how they work currently.

Narf

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Kev0r wrote:

Just in case it hasn't been pointed out already, my opinion is that it would be much better to give the jedi name once the Bio Sig is obtained from the Spynet, plus much more in keeping with the game world.

This minimises the chances that a hunter will consistantly go for the same mark, but means that he can decide whether or not to continue the mission long before he reaches the target

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SamousNemo wrote:

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

The reality is, the ones who get hit the hardest by this will be....paddies. They're going to be the ones who are held up to the MLS + 4 perfect pearl standard and that's not right.

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Padawans are dead no matter what once they hit the terms. They might escape once in awhile, but it's really just a matter of time. What difference does it make if they die from 150% damage or 100% damage?

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Ok, I'm hearing you. Consider:

If I kill 3 BH's over the course of 2 days before one gets meand am grinding that entire time, I'm much better off than if I lost every one of those fights. That's a huge difference in the amount of exp lost over the same amount of time.

For that one single fight, sure, not much of a difference, but over the long haul, the more BH's you kill the better off you are.

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NarfBlinko wrote:

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BDragon wrote:

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Tanks wrote:If you want this to happen I suggest a BH special damage modifier that increases damage vs a Jedi. 10% at investigation 3, 10% at Investigation 4 and 30% at Master BH. This would mean a 50% increase overall in damage output (Jedi = 1.5X full template) against Jedi ONLY.

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Wow! no way. That would be gamebreaking. If that were to ever come in my pistoleer/BH would be able to kill any non-defender Jedi under 1 minute and would hit master defenders for 1k+ damage per shot, im sorry but that is completely insane when you consider that BH is no longer profession that requires most of your skill points.

Under this current system, any template can quite easily be MBH and any ranged template that expects to PvP well will have BH in there, BH is now the most abused profession in the game. To give BH a damage multipiers Vs Jedi is essentially to give the entire game a multipier Vs Jedi and in effect Jedi becomes no better than any other profession.

I understand you are attempting to protect your content Tanks, your posts on the Jedi forums show this. The damage multipier however will create the kind of imbalance that the CU was meant to end. It would be on par with ADKd PSGs and melee toughness, i am frankly shocked that you could not see this.

Edit: Have you also considered the negative impact this will have on Jedi diversity (not that many BH care). If Jedi know all BH gain a damage multipier when fighting them it will push more and more Jedi towards master defender and once and for all end what little chance for diverse Jedi there ever was. Please Tanks, reconsider this crazy idea

Message Edited by BDragon on 06-15-2005 08:28 PM

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You failed to notice that Tanks was saying this bonus would only be in effect on BH missions, not in general. If it were just an in general mod, it would be gamebreaking, but not if it was only on BH missions. I would support such a mod and I'll tell you why. Who gets the ability to take missions to hunt Jedi? BHs at Inv 3, apparently. It was originally set up where only MBHs could do this. I say go back to that, no more of this pseudo-BH crap. Also, as a MBH, assuming no other elite combat professions, you are CL54, where Jedi are usually much higher. If you gain the ability to hunt Jedi at CL54, you should actually have a reasonable chance at succeeding. Under the current system, no MBH is going to be taking down Jedi without another elite combat profession of some kind. I read all this about the proper templated BH can take knights, but I'd argue that, assuming a MBH is the only one who can get a Jedi mission, a MBH should be able to take a knight, 1 on 1, with tactics, without relying on skills from another combat profession, at least some of the time. Just my .0000002cr.

Narf

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I dd not fail to notice anything. If you go back and read, Tanks only mentioned the bonus taking effect on BH missions later in the post and his initial statment sounded like he intended this bonus at all times, which IS gamebrekaing.

Now as for your completely insane comment about a MBH with no other skills being able to solo a Knight. If MBH alone was intended to be enough to kill a Jedi then ask yourself, why has the requirements for MBH been so greatly reduced to the point where you can have a entire master + 1/2 lines after being a MBH? Think clearly on that one and it will become apparent that MBH alone is NOT intended to be enough to kill a full template Jedi. Lets look at it another way, a scout gets the ability to harvest creatures, but doesnt get any atacks to kill them with. Are you now telling me that scouts should get weapon certs and atacks also? A Jedi initiate has the ability to craft a 4th gen lightsaber, but if they do so it will be a complete joke. Are you telling me they should also be granted 10 experimentation pts to craft their saber with? I hope you understand the point i am making here. MBH is not a stand-alone profession, it requires support to be effective. You are making the same mistake certain Jedi do, in thinking that X profession alone should allow them to do Y job with no support.

The only way MBH can ever dream of being able to even lick the boots of a Knight 1v1 with no support skills is if BH is returned to the elite-elite it was originally. Make MBH require 230+ skill pts again and then you can talk about BH being a match for a Knight 1v1 and not requiring any any skills from outside BH. Until that happens a Jedi hunter needs to be a composite of professions and a MBH alone has no right to equal power Vs a Knight, ever.

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Diversion wrote:

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Caelrie wrote:

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Tanks wrote:

If Jedi vs BH is going to be 1 vs 1, one of two things will have to happen. Either Jedi overall effectiveness will have to get reduced or BH effectiveness will have to increase. I prefer not to reduce Jedi effectiveness as it has negative PvE and PvP implications for the Jedi. As far as how much BH effectiveness increase is balanced? Well, that is what discussions and negotiations with the devs is all about. I am not going to negotiate against myself in the public forums though.

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I disagree. The dev stated that your side of the advantage is your first strike ability. I agree with him. I don't think there's any way at all the devs will make you equal in power to a Jedi while you have no penalties, a short grind, no unlocking process AND your first strike ability.

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Understand this: First strike ability is highly overrated, the current healing abilities of full temps and yes even some padawans has almost nullified it. You can use stims and/or holocrons and(I have said this before) get a heal free of charge before you even have to start taxing your force pool. I would gladly surrender my first strike capability and resort to challenging my marks if I could eat one of myseekers for a full free heal.

No one has asked BH:s to be as powerful as a Jedi, what we want is a sporting chance not even 50/50.

On a sidenote, Ithink the grind as you so often refer to no longer hold any value as an argument for having more power. I have seen people go from 80k to over 200k in a week and a half. I am unlocking myself and I must say that the master box after doing Imperial Storm Squadron is a greater achievement right now than becoming a Jedi.

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And if you were to take 4xxx in CM you would be able to nullify our damage. Don't sit there and say look at poor little BH can't heal when you can clearly take skills that let you heal our pathetic damage. At that point neither side will win because both will negate each others damage.

So we are at a point where a Jedi takes Defender with Healing and a BH takes Healing from CM, the fight will last forever. No one wins. Now, you remove Defender/Healer templatesfrom the picture and BH using CM healing, you get a better representation of 1.5 times as powerful like we are supposed to be.

Obviously when or should I say if they ever fix a Jedi's damage to be on par with other Elite professions there might be a valid point that Jedi are too powerful (assuming that our healing doesn't get nerfed like I'm sure it's going to), but as of today people on both sidesare complaining because they don't know how to actually fight in the Combat system and don't realize that without healing you will DIE in today's PvP. The people who know this are the ones that actually have 20 min fights with no one winning so either the Jedi or the BH runs lol.

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Tucheck wrote:

Such as? Letting you passive macros wear off? They don't. Most Jedi I know set up a macro that includes abilities that have no "cool down", so as soo as it drops, it is reapplied. I find what you are suggesting to be insulting. Based on your statements, I can only conclude that you wish to turn BHs into scavangers. Looking only for the hurt or wounded Jedi to kill. Is this your idea of "tactics"? While I agree timing has something to do with the success rate of killing a Jedi, my orginal statement still stands....the "first strike" is in the hands of the Jedi....not the BH. Just because I can decide to attack at ANY time does NOT make it a bonus for the profession, if there is only a small window opportunity for success at any given time.

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When you're hunting a Jedi Knight, yes, you're supposed to be a scavenger. If you want easier fights, take lesser bounties. Those lesser bounties are there for a reason. You're more effective as control if you hunt those lesser bounties anyway.

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More then that, with the existing exploits and issues employed by Jedi now, most grinding Jedi have a much eaiser path to Jedi then ever before. It's like saying once you get to a fully templated Jedi, no BH will ever kill you again, and for the bonus, we are going to make it even easier for you to become a fully templated Jedi by ignoring the exploits and bugs you may use. See where I'm going with this? The ONLY loss of XP by a Jedi comes from a BH. Bottom line, you paid your dues and so did I, but the fact is, the Devs made is much eaiser for BOTH professions to grind now.

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First, no profession should ever be balanced around exploits. You do that, you encourage people to use those exploits. You balance a profession around the idea that the grind will be done without cheating. So please, let's just drop that line of thought.

Second, the grind is harder now than it was pre-CU. You haven't really gotten to see this yet due to double XP and respec, but it's true. A good grouping Jedi's XP rate has been cut by 75%. A MLS Jedi solo pre-CU could make 400,000xp an hour without trying very hard. A jedi now in a group makes around 150,000xp an hour. That's a rather significant drop in xp rate, don't you think? And it makes the grind 3 times longer.

The devs have NOT made it easier with the CU. They've made it harder for us.

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Last night I came out of retirement for one night to "test" my new template. I TRIED to go overt and do SOMETHING in the GCW, however, no sooner did I go overt, then to have 3 Jedi uncloak from behind me. Knocked Down and 30 seconds latter and I'm cloning. So I decided to go hunting. Last night, out of the 5 Jedi missions I took:

1 house sitter
1 used the "startle shot" bug to remove my paralyze (ended in draw, and they paid me off, I still attacked though until he hopped in a speeder and ran away)
1 ran into a house AFTER attacking me
2 were killed

My point is, the "dues" are not what they once were, as a result I don't think the reward should be the same.

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Your point is lost on me. 1 Jedi was an exploiter and you STILL got paid for 3 out of 5 missions. What are you hoping for here, a perfect 5 out of 5 kill ratio every time?

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Caelrie wrote:

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Tucheck wrote:

Such as? Letting you passive macros wear off? They don't. Most Jedi I know set up a macro that includes abilities that have no "cool down", so as soo as it drops, it is reapplied. I find what you are suggesting to be insulting. Based on your statements, I can only conclude that you wish to turn BHs into scavangers. Looking only for the hurt or wounded Jedi to kill. Is this your idea of "tactics"? While I agree timing has something to do with the success rate of killing a Jedi, my orginal statement still stands....the "first strike" is in the hands of the Jedi....not the BH. Just because I can decide to attack at ANY time does NOT make it a bonus for the profession, if there is only a small window opportunity for success at any given time.

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When you're hunting a Jedi Knight, yes, you're supposed to be a scavenger. If you want easier fights, take lesser bounties. Those lesser bounties are there for a reason. You're more effective as control if you hunt those lesser bounties anyway.

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More then that, with the existing exploits and issues employed by Jedi now, most grinding Jedi have a much eaiser path to Jedi then ever before. It's like saying once you get to a fully templated Jedi, no BH will ever kill you again, and for the bonus, we are going to make it even easier for you to become a fully templated Jedi by ignoring the exploits and bugs you may use. See where I'm going with this? The ONLY loss of XP by a Jedi comes from a BH. Bottom line, you paid your dues and so did I, but the fact is, the Devs made is much eaiser for BOTH professions to grind now.

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First, no profession should ever be balanced around exploits. You do that, you encourage people to use those exploits. You balance a profession around the idea that the grind will be done without cheating. So please, let's just drop that line of thought.

Second, the grind is harder now than it was pre-CU. You haven't really gotten to see this yet due to double XP and respec, but it's true. A good grouping Jedi's XP rate has been cut by 75%. A MLS Jedi solo pre-CU could make 400,000xp an hour without trying very hard. A jedi now in a group makes around 150,000xp an hour. That's a rather significant drop in xp rate, don't you think? And it makes the grind 3 times longer.

The devs have NOT made it easier with the CU. They've made it harder for us.

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Last night I came out of retirement for one night to "test" my new template. I TRIED to go overt and do SOMETHING in the GCW, however, no sooner did I go overt, then to have 3 Jedi uncloak from behind me. Knocked Down and 30 seconds latter and I'm cloning. So I decided to go hunting. Last night, out of the 5 Jedi missions I took:

1 house sitter
1 used the "startle shot" bug to remove my paralyze (ended in draw, and they paid me off, I still attacked though until he hopped in a speeder and ran away)
1 ran into a house AFTER attacking me
2 were killed

My point is, the "dues" are not what they once were, as a result I don't think the reward should be the same.

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Your point is lost on me. 1 Jedi was an exploiter and you STILL got paid for 3 out of 5 missions. What are you hoping for here, a perfect 5 out of 5 kill ratio every time?

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If this is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, I say HURRAY! Sounds like the Devs decided that the easiest way to lengthen the process to JK is....make them take longer to get the needed xp. I suppose they could have just quadupled the amount needed in each box, but I think this makes more sense. Look at it this way: Jedi get visibility when using Force powers or their LS in front of people, NPCs and PCs alike, but not animals. Get too much visibility, wham! yer on the terminals and start getting hunted. That is one way to control Jedi progression. Now, in addition to the visibility issue, they've made it harder to crank out the xp alone, though I'd argue that 100kxp/hour isn't that bad, but I'm not sure how well I can do, as I've never measured it, since I play the game to have fun, not to have a mindless grind day after day after day...you get the picture. Basically, Jedi who want to level fast have to endure the visibility penalty and Jedi that want to avoid visibility have to endure the longer time to get experience. Both are annoying, but, hey, you did CHOOSE to be a Jedi, afterall. Look how well Anakin did (aka FAILED!), you think you can do better than the Chosen One? =)

Long grind for Jedi to get to full template is fine with me, as is the visibility. Players should not be able to get a Jedi Knight for the same effort it takes to get an elite combat profession, it should be much, much, much harder.

Narf

Message Edited by Shock-N-Awe on 06-17-2005 03:29 PM

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AcimEriga wrote:

It is patently untrue. I keep the names of every jedi I find at 150k or less in my friends list, along with their bounty amount, and the last time I defeated them, if applicable. (and for you who scream to hunt knights, I do, I simply havent defeated any yet, and feel no shame in that.) I have seen most of the jedi go up 100k in payout every 7-10 days. It took me longer to grind MBH the second time than it is taking jedi to grind up their templates.

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No need to defend yourself. Jedi on the terms are Jedi on the terms. My thinking on the subject has slowly evolved from "Well, they got on the terms, they were careless and stupid " (pre-CU) to "Meh, even a mid-level Paddie can put up a good fight." Choose your payday and let other people worry about theirs.