Bounty Hunter Archive

I think the whole one on one thing is because we have really lazy devs. How hard would it be to have a scale on how many can take a mission. For every 50k in Bounty means 1 mission. So the low level paddies have no more than one coming, mid-level have 3 missions generated and full templates have 5 missions generated. As a Jedi I think the 1on1 thing stinks. I did not spend all that time so that my respec BH alt which I spenttwo weeks on is as strong as my Jedi, that is just plain stupid. Please Devs I dont mind multiple BHs hunting me dont make this change.

Would it be too bloody bad to keep things the way they are?

Are the terminals a pain in the rear to use? Yes! Impossible? No, it's very livable.

Do we need jedi names? Of course we do, anything else is just plain stupid.

Do we need 5 on 1 jedi missions? YES! Just wait until FRS is implemented, you'll wish that you still could.

- Ezar

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Bastilaa wrote:

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Tanks wrote:

Posted on the correspondent forum for discussion with the devs.

Keld: "Jedi vs BH should be 1 vs 1"

Rebuttal: Unfortunately, that means any BH fighting a Jedi would die if the Jedi they are fighting is a bit over half template.

Solution: If you want this to happen I suggest a BH special damage modifier that increases damage vs a Jedi. 10% at investigation 3, 10% at Investigation 4 and 30% at Master BH. This would mean a 50% increase overall in damage output (Jedi = 1.5X full template) against Jedi ONLY.

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A 50% increase in damage is way over the top, a good BH can beat a Jedi Knight, it happens a lot more than people seem to relize. As it is a BH can hit a Non Defender Jedi for over 1000 Damage per shot add in 50% more and you have a 2 shot kill giving the Jedi no chance to react.

People seem to forget a BH has the option when to attack and having first strike and your choice of when to attack. I had a lot more respect for you Tanks than asking for an I win button

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Yeah ok. You know how rare i hit a non defender jedi for 800 damage let alone 1000? With a non defender jedi i hit them for 500 damage an attack with an 800 or 900 here and there. Against a defender jedi i hit him for 300 damage an attack with a 500 or 600 here and there. See with the 50% increase it'd be 750 average non defender knight and 450 average defender knight. Plus you jedi spam your heals like i could spam strafe shot 2 pre CU. And i highly doubt adding in mind for jedi heals is gonna hurt them much unless you stick a stun on them.

Oh and about the I win button that is any master defender...I mean c'mon avoid incapp. If you get hit for too much damage you should still get incapped. It's like making jedi zombies...

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Tanks wrote:

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KiIIgore wrote:

Jedi CANNOT HEAL KDed .... I just tested it on my knight. YOU CANNOT FORCE HEAL WHILE KNOCKED DOWN is the message I got, ask any Jedi.

Hmmm, infusion does not work while KDed? I'll have to check that.

You got your mind cost on force heals,

Actually, that came from the devs. Most of the complaints on Jedi healing also came from docs who felt they did not have any role in group combat anymore.

you got continuous force cost on FR,

You've got to be kidding me. I know Jedi that would have agreed to twice the drain to get togglable Force run. As it is the drain is minimal, about the same as regen.

we cannot wear armor

You have innate armor and Force aura(Some jedi don't pick up defender, just like some Bounty hunters not picking up the skills to take out high level Jedi)

you do 2xs the damage we do....

Ahem, are you MLS? If so go ahead and hit someone with Power hit, head hit, leg hit, and body hit in succession while they are hitting you at the same time. Then add up the damage and calculate DPS. You should notice that your DPS is higher unless you have a worthless saber. You might do less damage on a single hit, but you will hit more often due to those skills having a different timer.

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ChickenPuppy wrote:

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Tanks wrote:

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Bastilaa wrote:

As it is a BH can hit a Non Defender Jedi for over 1000 Damage per shot add in 50% more and you have a 2 shot kill giving the Jedi no chance to react.

Most Jedi are running Infusion macros. Also, a non-defender Jedi will most likely have 4xxx heals at 1500 a pop. The only way it would be a 2 shot kill is if the Jedi does nothing. If that is the case, you don't need the extra damage anyway .

People seem to forget a BH has the option when to attack and having first strike and your choice of when to attack. I had a lot more respect for you Tanks than asking for an I win button

If Jedi vs BH is going to be 1 vs 1, one of two things will have to happen. Either Jedi overall effectiveness will have to get reduced or BH effectiveness will have to increase. I prefer not to reduce Jedi effectiveness as it has negative PvE and PvP implications for the Jedi. As far as how much BH effectiveness increase is balanced? Well, that is what discussions and negotiations with the devs is all about. I am not going to negotiate against myself in the public forums though.

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Knock Down+Startletanks, keeps the jedi from attacking, or doing anything esle for that matter= Death for non defender, and with these changes you offer... no hope.

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MasterSad wrote:

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Tanks wrote:

we cannot wear armor

You have innate armor and Force aura

you do 2xs the damage we do....

Ahem, are you MLS? If so go ahead and hit someone with Power hit, head hit, leg hit, and body hit in succession while they are hitting you at the same time. Then add up the damage and calculate DPS. You should notice that your DPS is higher unless you have a worthless saber. You might do less damage on a single hit, but you will hit more often due to those skills having a different timer.

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Tanks you are already considering a jedi of a certain template that is MDefender+MLS. Not everyone (far from that)evey jedi has this template as it is the best in JvJ thus yoru arguments are in relevant here. Beside, not everyone (and very far from everyone) have LS that is even close to regular weapon DPS.

But I agree that 1vs1 is not a solution.

Message Edited by MasterSad on 06-16-2005 09:27 AM

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BDragon wrote:

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NarfBlinko wrote:

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BDragon wrote:

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Tanks wrote:If you want this to happen I suggest a BH special damage modifier that increases damage vs a Jedi. 10% at investigation 3, 10% at Investigation 4 and 30% at Master BH. This would mean a 50% increase overall in damage output (Jedi = 1.5X full template) against Jedi ONLY.

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Wow! no way. That would be gamebreaking. If that were to ever come in my pistoleer/BH would be able to kill any non-defender Jedi under 1 minute and would hit master defenders for 1k+ damage per shot, im sorry but that is completely insane when you consider that BH is no longer profession that requires most of your skill points.

Under this current system, any template can quite easily be MBH and any ranged template that expects to PvP well will have BH in there, BH is now the most abused profession in the game. To give BH a damage multipiers Vs Jedi is essentially to give the entire game a multipier Vs Jedi and in effect Jedi becomes no better than any other profession.

I understand you are attempting to protect your content Tanks, your posts on the Jedi forums show this. The damage multipier however will create the kind of imbalance that the CU was meant to end. It would be on par with ADKd PSGs and melee toughness, i am frankly shocked that you could not see this.

Edit: Have you also considered the negative impact this will have on Jedi diversity (not that many BH care). If Jedi know all BH gain a damage multipier when fighting them it will push more and more Jedi towards master defender and once and for all end what little chance for diverse Jedi there ever was. Please Tanks, reconsider this crazy idea

Message Edited by BDragon on 06-15-2005 08:28 PM

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You failed to notice that Tanks was saying this bonus would only be in effect on BH missions, not in general. If it were just an in general mod, it would be gamebreaking, but not if it was only on BH missions. I would support such a mod and I'll tell you why. Who gets the ability to take missions to hunt Jedi? BHs at Inv 3, apparently. It was originally set up where only MBHs could do this. I say go back to that, no more of this pseudo-BH crap. Also, as a MBH, assuming no other elite combat professions, you are CL54, where Jedi are usually much higher. If you gain the ability to hunt Jedi at CL54, you should actually have a reasonable chance at succeeding. Under the current system, no MBH is going to be taking down Jedi without another elite combat profession of some kind. I read all this about the proper templated BH can take knights, but I'd argue that, assuming a MBH is the only one who can get a Jedi mission, a MBH should be able to take a knight, 1 on 1, with tactics, without relying on skills from another combat profession, at least some of the time. Just my .0000002cr.

Narf

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I dd not fail to notice anything. If you go back and read, Tanks only mentioned the bonus taking effect on BH missions later in the post and his initial statment sounded like he intended this bonus at all times, which IS gamebrekaing.

Now as for your completely insane comment about a MBH with no other skills being able to solo a Knight. If MBH alone was intended to be enough to kill a Jedi then ask yourself, why has the requirements for MBH been so greatly reduced to the point where you can have a entire master + 1/2 lines after being a MBH? Think clearly on that one and it will become apparent that MBH alone is NOT intended to be enough to kill a full template Jedi. Lets look at it another way, a scout gets the ability to harvest creatures, but doesnt get any atacks to kill them with. Are you now telling me that scouts should get weapon certs and atacks also? A Jedi initiate has the ability to craft a 4th gen lightsaber, but if they do so it will be a complete joke. Are you telling me they should also be granted 10 experimentation pts to craft their saber with? I hope you understand the point i am making here. MBH is not a stand-alone profession, it requires support to be effective. You are making the same mistake certain Jedi do, in thinking that X profession alone should allow them to do Y job with no support.

The only way MBH can ever dream of being able to even lick the boots of a Knight 1v1 with no support skills is if BH is returned to the elite-elite it was originally. Make MBH require 230+ skill pts again and then you can talk about BH being a match for a Knight 1v1 and not requiring any any skills from outside BH. Until that happens a Jedi hunter needs to be a composite of professions and a MBH alone has no right to equal power Vs a Knight, ever.

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Of course, I don't have much of a stake in this fight, as I don't hunt Jedi. I hate PvP, always have, always will. =)

Narf

Whats a BH to do?

Nerf Jedi?..Nope...Jedi get mad

Buff BH?...Nope..Jedi get mad

Allow BH groups?..Nope..Jedi get mad

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Caelrie wrote:

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Tanks wrote:

If Jedi vs BH is going to be 1 vs 1, one of two things will have to happen. Either Jedi overall effectiveness will have to get reduced or BH effectiveness will have to increase. I prefer not to reduce Jedi effectiveness as it has negative PvE and PvP implications for the Jedi. As far as how much BH effectiveness increase is balanced? Well, that is what discussions and negotiations with the devs is all about. I am not going to negotiate against myself in the public forums though.

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I disagree. The dev stated that your side of the advantage is your first strike ability. I agree with him. I don't think there's any way at all the devs will make you equal in power to a Jedi while you have no penalties, a short grind, no unlocking process AND your first strike ability.

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Understand this: First strike ability is highly overrated, the current healing abilities of full temps and yes even some padawans has almost nullified it. You can use stims and/or holocrons and(I have said this before) get a heal free of charge before you even have to start taxing your force pool. I would gladly surrender my first strike capability and resort to challenging my marks if I could eat one of myseekers for a full free heal.

No one has asked BH:s to be as powerful as a Jedi, what we want is a sporting chance not even 50/50.

On a sidenote, Ithink the grind as you so often refer to no longer hold any value as an argument for having more power. I have seen people go from 80k to over 200k in a week and a half. I am unlocking myself and I must say that the master box after doing Imperial Storm Squadron is a greater achievement right now than becoming a Jedi.