Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Eliminate Jedi experience loss
swg-albert wrote:
BH would be a hell of a lot more fun if Jedi would stay and fight. At this point in the game, why the hell would they. Jedi can only lose exp. They even gain more visibility from fighting.
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 
Keito_Temreh wrote:
In august of 2003 SWG had over 500k subscribers, now barely over 200k. Tell me how many stayed because they wanted jedi in SWG? I know more that quit because of them than stayed cause they could be one. I remember in beta the devs originally were not going to allow player jedi, they added them the last two weeks before release and they were never tested by the beta testing community. That is why this game went to crap. We were honestly lead to beleive that player jedi would be rare and only a very lucky few might create a force sensitive character, ya know random. But no, after a few months we got the holo grind because no jedi had appeared yet, and it has sucked ever since.
I wish we had speeders and space and all the goodies from the CU then before jedi came, I dream of what it would have been like, the massive GCW battles (without jedi) with all the various combat professions. But no we walked everywhere, didnt have ships, and we had rifleman/cm and tkm/cm wars, then jedi came. Look at what we had? Who wouldnt want to be a jedi? It was more star warsy than the game we were handed.
I wanted to be a gunfighting bounty hunter or a dashing scoundrel of a smuggler, but it's never going to be because it isnt an option if you want to compete in the GCW. Most of us had dreams like this, not to be jedi, just heroes in the GCW like Han, Chewie, Lando, Boba, etc..... But all we got was Jedi this Jedi that...../add nauseum
People left for many different reasons, some because of jedi, some because of lack of space combat, some because of lack of content beyond three months, some because they were brand new to mmo's and didn't like the format, some because they were long time mmo players and the next shiney new mmo's came out, some because the game was bug-ridden and released six months to a year before it was ready. There are no exit polls asking why you cancle your subscription so hearsay and gossip is just that.
Go create a brand new character and take that character through the tutorial, at the end you meet a jedi npc who asks you which path you want to take, for or against the empire. That jedi then defends you from a second jedi npc so you can escape and start along your own path to jedi. That alone shows how SOE and LA feel that jedi is the major selling point. Jedi is the icon of the star wars universe, it's the one thing that sets star wars apart from all the other science fiction stories.
Now I agree holocrons were a mistake, the village also, same for almost forcing jedi to wear robes that stand out like neon signs. But all of that happened after subscriptions started to slip. And I only brought this up because another poster suggested suspending the accounts of jedi if they got visibility. That would be a horrible business decision. The same rules of conduct should apply to all players and characters. Penalizing one for doing what others can do is a good way to lose customers, especially when those particular customers have put in months of effort and payed months of subscription fees.
negilum wrote:
People left for many different reasons, some because of jedi, some because of lack of space combat, some because of lack of content beyond three months, some because they were brand new to mmo's and didn't like the format, some because they were long time mmo players and the next shiney new mmo's came out, some because the game was bug-ridden and released six months to a year before it was ready. There are no exit polls asking why you cancle your subscription so hearsay and gossip is just that.
Go create a brand new character and take that character through the tutorial, at the end you meet a jedi npc who asks you which path you want to take, for or against the empire. That jedi then defends you from a second jedi npc so you can escape and start along your own path to jedi. That alone shows how SOE and LA feel that jedi is the major selling point. Jedi is the icon of the star wars universe, it's the one thing that sets star wars apart from all the other science fiction stories.
Now I agree holocrons were a mistake, the village also, same for almost forcing jedi to wear robes that stand out like neon signs. But all of that happened after subscriptions started to slip. And I only brought this up because another poster suggested suspending the accounts of jedi if they got visibility. That would be a horrible business decision. The same rules of conduct should apply to all players and characters. Penalizing one for doing what others can do is a good way to lose customers, especially when those particular customers have put in months of effort and payed months of subscription fees.
Most of the people I know who quit left because of the jedi. Many left because the CU wasn't to their liking and they hadn't given it an adequate chance.
Is that true what you say about the new player tutorial? The developersare given the responsibility to create a SWU that should at least somewhat concur with the SWU as we know it. Most inconsistencies are within gameplay reason, and can be overlooked, but jedi are a big deal. Forget the alpha-class crap, and unfair inbalance... the real issue is that it is made abundantly clear in the movies AND the EU, that they are rare to the point of non-existence. I find it disgusting that they deliberately push a new player to become something that essentially doesn't even belong.
I never suggested suspending the accounts. My suggestion was to suspend the Jedi character... they have been given an alt with no real encouragement to use them. The way it currently stands, I feel that everyone deserves a free alt. The alt is awarded because of the supposed regulations imposed on playing a jedi. With theregulations diminishing as they are, and thejedi becoming the 'norm', there really is no reason to be given the alt.
Yes Jedi are a very important part of Star Wars lore, but within that lore, a universe was created.. a universe where it is commonly known that jedi do not exist. I'm just as concerned with the sucess of SOE regarding SWG, if for no other reason than to ensure consistent improvments, but I believe more sucess can be achieved while cohering to the major facts we have come to know about StarWars.
swg-albert wrote:
BH would be a hell of a lot more fun if Jedi would stay and fight. At this point in the game, why the hell would they. Jedi can only lose exp. They even gain more visibility from fighting.
If bounties were like normal PvP, a lot more Jedi would play ball.Get rid of the exp loss. At least the Jedi doesn't lose anything, and we, the BHs, can still get the bounty without standing outside a house fortwo days.
For me it is not the XP loss, I just dont want to get involved in a long drawn out fight. About 10 min is all I can handle. After that I start to get bored. I'll stay and fight, but at about the 15 min mark I am looking for an escape if there is no end in sight.
Grifn wrote:
negilum wrote:
People left for many different reasons, some because of jedi, some because of lack of space combat, some because of lack of content beyond three months, some because they were brand new to mmo's and didn't like the format, some because they were long time mmo players and the next shiney new mmo's came out, some because the game was bug-ridden and released six months to a year before it was ready. There are no exit polls asking why you cancle your subscription so hearsay and gossip is just that.
Go create a brand new character and take that character through the tutorial, at the end you meet a jedi npc who asks you which path you want to take, for or against the empire. That jedi then defends you from a second jedi npc so you can escape and start along your own path to jedi. That alone shows how SOE and LA feel that jedi is the major selling point. Jedi is the icon of the star wars universe, it's the one thing that sets star wars apart from all the other science fiction stories.
Now I agree holocrons were a mistake, the village also, same for almost forcing jedi to wear robes that stand out like neon signs. But all of that happened after subscriptions started to slip. And I only brought this up because another poster suggested suspending the accounts of jedi if they got visibility. That would be a horrible business decision. The same rules of conduct should apply to all players and characters. Penalizing one for doing what others can do is a good way to lose customers, especially when those particular customers have put in months of effort and payed months of subscription fees.Most of the people I know who quit left because of the jedi. Many left because the CU wasn't to their liking and they hadn't given it an adequate chance.
Is that true what you say about the new player tutorial? The developers are given the responsibility to create a SWU that should at least somewhat concur with the SWU as we know it. Most inconsistencies are within gameplay reason, and can be overlooked, but jedi are a big deal. Forget the alpha-class crap, and unfair inbalance... the real issue is that it is made abundantly clear in the movies AND the EU, that they are rare to the point of non-existence. I find it disgusting that they deliberately push a new player to become something that essentially doesn't even belong.
I never suggested suspending the accounts. My suggestion was to suspend the Jedi character... they have been given an alt with no real encouragement to use them. The way it currently stands, I feel that everyone deserves a free alt. The alt is awarded because of the supposed regulations imposed on playing a jedi. With the regulations diminishing as they are, and the jedi becoming the 'norm', there really is no reason to be given the alt.
Yes Jedi are a very important part of Star Wars lore, but within that lore, a universe was created.. a universe where it is commonly known that jedi do not exist. I'm just as concerned with the sucess of SOE regarding SWG, if for no other reason than to ensure consistent improvments, but I believe more sucess can be achieved while cohering to the major facts we have come to know about StarWars.
the reprecussions for jedi visibility should come in game, not by denying them the ability to play something they earned. enhancing aspects of the game away from jedi would be a far better way to promote non-jedi play. like you say yourself they should be encouraged to use their alt because it's a worthwhile experience. the devs and the playerbase need to shift their focus away from jedi, including the bh-jedi relationship. suggesting either a reduction or an increase in penalties will only refocus attention on jedi. currently too much of this game revolves around the bh-jedi realtionship.
it's too late to move towards a game where jedi are rare. taking away something a customer already has will push the customer to quit. everything changed when Koster was removed from swg. an all powerful class subject to permadeath was his vision. Lucas Arts' vision is what we have now. they were the ones who made the decision about holocrons. a decision based on slipping subscription numbers and the approach of the holiday shopping season. when it comes to gaming LA plays hardball, one only has to look at KOTOR 2 to see their goals. a game that LA forced the publisher to release unfinished in order to be in the stores for christams. if you want to see how much is missing from that game go check out the KOTOR2 restoration project
as far as the tutorial, the devs do what they're told to do. remember SOE only rents the license it's LA that has ultimate control, and LA markets jedi because jedi sells. as i said in an earlier post this isn't star wars it's a MMO with a star wars skin on it.
people need to either accept that or find a better place to spend thier money.
swg-albert wrote:BH would be a hell of a lot more fun if Jedi would stay and fight. At this point in the game, why the hell would they. Jedi can only lose exp. They even gain more visibility from fighting.If bounties were like normal PvP, a lot more Jedi would play ball.Get rid of the exp loss. At least the Jedi doesn't lose anything, and we, the BHs, can still get the bounty without standing outside a house fortwo days.
Ok if they did. What would be the reson to give them a second toon on server then? I agree its a Harsh Penalty. But there has to be a Risk.
when jedi was first introduced, there were no bh missions on them.
when bh missions first came out, there was no xp loss.
it is not needed now, it should go.
as it stands now, i run from every bh i see. there is no upside in fighting, and im not here to provide content for someone else. take xp loss out, and we will fight, every time.
negilum wrote:
when one class is subject to permadeath that class needs to be all powerful to balance it. we already know one class having far more power than others is bad for the game.
Do you think there might be a reason why so many people say "you'll need a Jedi" to finish certain dungeons or missions?
Might it be because they are more powerful?
Having Jedi at all is bad for the game - and not fixing the class because they're afraid people will quit is also bad for the game. Not to mention the people who quit because such things are allowed to continue.
GlargTheKelfn wrote:
xp loss was put in to stop bh farming jedi. with anon missions, thats not really an issue.
when jedi was first introduced, there were no bh missions on them.
when bh missions first came out, there was no xp loss.
it is not needed now, it should go.
as it stands now, i run from every bh i see. there is no upside in fighting, and im not here to provide content for someone else. take xp loss out, and we will fight, every time.
When Jedi was first introduced, the Devs couldn't even get NPC bounty missions to work right.
When BH missions first came out, Jedi were not so abundant that you could find them duelling in starports - nor so reckless.
You're right - there was no xp loss when BH missions first came out - there was permadeath.
Amazing how people forget all that. 
TashunkaSapa wrote:
When Jedi was first introduced, the Devs couldn't even get NPC bounty missions to work right.
When BH missions first came out, Jedi were not so abundant that you could find them duelling in starports - nor so reckless.
You're right - there was no xp loss when BH missions first came out - there was permadeath.
Amazing how people forget all that.
No one's forgotten permadeath. However, that has nothing to do with my point. There are people on these very forums who foolishly believe that the BH's original purpose was to curb Jedi population. One actually suggested that was the whole reason BH's were created as a profession. Of course they don't realize that BH's were in the game design long before player Jedi were.