Bounty Hunter Archive

Message Edited by Tao-Te-Ching on 06-16-2005 11:02 AM

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Tanks wrote:

Posted on the correspondent forum for discussion with the devs.

Keld: "Jedi vs BH should be 1 vs 1"

Rebuttal: Unfortunately, that means any BH fighting a Jedi would die if the Jedi they are fighting is a bit over half template.

Solution: If you want this to happen I suggest a BH special damage modifier that increases damage vs a Jedi. 10% at investigation 3, 10% at Investigation 4 and 30% at Master BH. This would mean a 50% increase overall in damage output (Jedi = 1.5X full template) against Jedi ONLY and only during the BH mission (same combat that locks others out would enable the damage bonus).

Blix: "The Jedi names and mission amounts should not show on the terminals"
Rebuttal:

• If the names are truly anonymous it would be very possible to get the same mission on a Jedi that is on Kasshyk or sitting in a Cantina, AFK, in a player city, over and over again.


• It would be also very possible to keep getting missions on Jedi that a solo BH has no chance of defeating (see rebuttle above). Obviously, no grouping would be possible.


• It would also not be possible to ascertain a Jedi is online or know the faction of the Jedi.


• It would also take away from the RP aspects of bounty hunting.


• Kashyyyk has become Jedi grinding spot now, so BHs will not be able to hunt Jedi via PC informants there either (will cause even more resentment in the BH community).


• BHs will not be able to use /tar Jediname when they get to their querry.

Solutions:

• Make it so a Jedi is assigned a pseudonym when his mission is created. This way if he is on Kashyyyk or AFK in a player structure, the BH can pick another mission.


• List only online Jedi missions on a SEPARATE PC Bounty tab along with their faction.


• Allow the Arakydn droid toreveal the Jedi's real name along with the planet location so the BH can use his targeting macros later on, or abort the mission if he wishes at that point.


• Again, if you are not going to allow grouping or not list bounty amounts BHs should have the skills/mods to take on a full template Jedi.


• Add BH terminals on Kashyyk that will list only Jedi that are currently online, and on that planet, seeing that we would no longer be able to use PC informants. This way at least we'd be able to start looking for them (still would take a long while to manually search each instance).

One thing to consider before making any changes, if any, is that a lot of the complaints to date have been due to the fact that a lot of newbie Jedi had never PvPed, and also were under the impression that they had to drop non-Jedi skills to level effectively due to CL levels and Padawan effectiveness in solo play. So, when they started grouping and getting visibility, they got wasted.

Now, people are used to CU. Jedi are picking up skills like Rifleman/TK/Swordsman along with Jedi healing and defenses. As a result low level Padawans are actually MORE dangerous adversaries than mid-level Jedi.

It might not be necessary to make any changes to the BH/Jedi system to solve the problem of BHs picking on low level Padawans, as the problem seems to be solving itself for the most part.

I am ready to discuss any of these issues or possible solutions.

Regards,

Message Edited by Tanks on 06-15-2005 10:11 PM

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We should push for the removal of Jedi bounties if this is what they intend to implement.

Ehon - Radiant

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Weasel7479 wrote:
Not sure if its been mentioned but something that might help with the situation....how about moving player bounties to master BH only. It would seem to make sense that only a fully trained BH would be trusted to hunt such dangerous prey as jedi.

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Just as a thought and sorta off the topic that we've been discussing for the last two pages, but if the payouts are going to be hidden, why not just give us a flat payout rate of 225k for every Jedi?

You could of course keep Jedi XP loss rate based on SP, but no sense in punishing a BH with 32k for an hour's worth of work for killing someone he'd normally have let go.

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OhBuggah wrote:

(3) Make Jedi names anonymous, but also include mission payout as a gauge for us to see the relative strength of a Jedi. However, randomize a small part of the payout. For instance make payouts random within a set range. Full template Jedi would be worth between 225k-226k. Mission payouts could look like 225432, 226323, 225998 for the same Jedi. This information tells us it's a full template Jedi, yet it would be impossible for a Jedi gank squad to efficiently choose the same Jedi when all the mission payouts are randomized in a range.

I'm not totally opposed to anonymous Jedi missions, but the Devs have to realize that there are legitimate reasons for targetting specific Jedi and pulling their missions. In my case, I do it because most online Jedi are inside of a private house and it's the only way to get a mission on an ATK Jedi. If I'm allowed to choose to hunt ATK anonymous Jedi, then the change wouldn't hurt me too badly.

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Zilod wrote:

i don't consider jedi 1.5 than normal classes, some jedi templates are very resistant to BH damage but this makes them not 1.5 better than for example a good melee template.

said that a 50% improvement of damage will be unbalanced for jedi that didn't chose defender, a defender template is probably taking 1/8damage compared to a non defender.

Jedi without defender gain something by giving up defense. Master Enhancers, for example, have the ability to statis and FR3 away. M Powers can cloak and be unattackable.

about 1 v 1 fights i think that a good bh can force jedi to retreat or to a tie

If a BH forces a Jedi to retreat or into a stalemate, he's lost and the Jedi has won. He didn't get paid and the Jedi didn't die. If a BH forces a non-win situation every hunt, he's not a "good BH"

if you do this you have no more a 1 vs 1 scenario BHs will have just to group and look at the same pseudonym to hunt

1) Why would Bounty Hunters group up (and split their pay) if they are given the 50% damage mod and can take a Jedi solo?

2) Have you ever tried to group up for the same Jedi in the current system? You don't look for the similiar name at first, you look for similiar pay as that's listed on the terms right away. Even then is can take half an hour for two hunters to find the same mark. If payouts are removed from the terms, as has been proposed, it would take even longer as both hunters wouldhave to open every bounty listed on the terms to find the right one. Considering item #1, I don't see it as time/cost effective togroup even if pseudonyms are listed.

i agree for faction, but i don't think that to list only online jedi will be a good idea. on low population servers and in some timeframe is likelly that there will be very few jedi logged, this will end up with the problem above, with many BHs against a single jedi.

This happens already with low-payout padawans as they are the only ones most Bounty Hunters can handle alone. It's not that there aren't enough Jedi to go around (as an imbalance would only occur if there are more active BH logged in than Jedi, and this could sway either way), it's just that half of them aren't being hunted.

Listing a pseudonym is only meant to aid in avoiding Jedi who are in a house or otherwise unattackable. The 50% damage mod should enable BH to take higher-level Jedi and thus prevent low-level targeting via pseudonyms.

If pseudonyms, anon payouts, and 50% dmg mod are introduced, all of the Jedi will be hunted all of the time instead of just the paddies that we can solo currently. If anything, the higher-level Jedi will be targeted by pseudo-scanning, as BH will want the higher payouts (and actually be able to collect thanks to the 50% dmg mod).

as BH i must admit that i will like to chose just from people online, but also is not so time consuming to check if they are on, i don't add jedis on my friend list but still you need just a couple of secs to see if they are on.

the problem here can be that with random jedi names + jedi not on will be quite difficult to find a jedi to hunt, also will be problematic (even when you chose an offline jedi) to know when he is on...

here some suggestions... (edited for length concerns)

Instead of doing all that, why not just have the terminals list only online Jedi?

for kashyyk i will prefer to see probe problem solved, a terminal there will just permit to cycle througt various missions until you find the one of the jedi at starport, that's not a real hunt

I agree, I'd much rather just see droids work on Kash. However, the Devs have stated that this can/will not be happening. Tanks is just trying to work with what they're giving us.

Personally if droids aren't going to be fixed, I'd rather just see bounties and all forms of XP turned off on the planet. Would be no different than the space expansion.

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Tanks wrote:

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Bastilaa wrote:

The simple fact is you have 2 classes facing off one is stronger than the other becuase of its stature in the SW universe. A Jedi Knight is stronger than a BH, but a BH is supposed to use skill to defeat his foe.

Well, I have no problems about Jedi being an Alpha class. But, if that is the case then BHs should not be forced to face such a foe 1 vs 1 without gaining skills as you say it to give them a close to even chance.

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That's why I don't think one vs one is viable.

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1. group ofBountyhunters @ terminal


2. MBH who takes mission on Jedi of an equal rank (not sure what can be deemed as equal)


3. option allowed for MBH with mission to /hireMercs consiting of existing BHs in group


4. locks group size with mission preventing addition members from being /invited

A mission of this nature should fail if the MBH who /hiredMerc completely drops group. So, if there were at least one other BH still in group the mission would remain active untill all mercs were dispearsed. An ability to /hireMerc should only be allowed at time of mission being taken.

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Jasek wrote:

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OhBuggah wrote:

(3) Make Jedi names anonymous, but also include mission payout as a gauge for us to see the relative strength of a Jedi. However, randomize a small part of the payout. For instance make payouts random within a set range. Full template Jedi would be worth between 225k-226k. Mission payouts could look like 225432, 226323, 225998 for the same Jedi. This information tells us it's a full template Jedi, yet it would be impossible for a Jedi gank squad to efficiently choose the same Jedi when all the mission payouts are randomized in a range.

I'm not totally opposed to anonymous Jedi missions, but the Devs have to realize that there are legitimate reasons for targetting specific Jedi and pulling their missions. In my case, I do it because most online Jedi are inside of a private house and it's the only way to get a mission on an ATK Jedi. If I'm allowed to choose to hunt ATK anonymous Jedi, then the change wouldn't hurt me too badly.

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The randomizing of the mission payouts (or my preference, having mission payouts tie directly to the Visibility of the Jedi) would seem to indicate they don't want BH's singling out paddies to attack. The fact that so many BH's purposely go for the far far easier kills than any sort of challenge speaks volumes to this. I don't really feel one way or another about the masking of the names, if it causes too many problems, let that stay in. Or maybe move the name information a step or two down the chain.

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Removing Jedi names and or removing a way of gauging what our targets difficulty is is the same as removing the missions completely. If you are so naive to think that Jedi will not end up being nerfed into oblivion if this happens than I can only hope that when you end up selling your account on ebay you get a alotof money.

Ehon - Radiant

lol what Bounty hunter in his/her right mind would hunt a target they knew virtually nothing about?

What a stupid idea

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BDragon wrote:

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Tanks wrote:If you want this to happen I suggest a BH special damage modifier that increases damage vs a Jedi. 10% at investigation 3, 10% at Investigation 4 and 30% at Master BH. This would mean a 50% increase overall in damage output (Jedi = 1.5X full template) against Jedi ONLY.

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Wow! no way. That would be gamebreaking. If that were to ever come in my pistoleer/BH would be able to kill any non-defender Jedi under 1 minute and would hit master defenders for 1k+ damage per shot, im sorry but that is completely insane when you consider that BH is no longer profession that requires most of your skill points.

Under this current system, any template can quite easily be MBH and any ranged template that expects to PvP well will have BH in there, BH is now the most abused profession in the game. To give BH a damage multipiers Vs Jedi is essentially to give the entire game a multipier Vs Jedi and in effect Jedi becomes no better than any other profession.

I understand you are attempting to protect your content Tanks, your posts on the Jedi forums show this. The damage multipier however will create the kind of imbalance that the CU was meant to end. It would be on par with ADKd PSGs and melee toughness, i am frankly shocked that you could not see this.

Edit: Have you also considered the negative impact this will have on Jedi diversity (not that many BH care). If Jedi know all BH gain a damage multipier when fighting them it will push more and more Jedi towards master defender and once and for all end what little chance for diverse Jedi there ever was. Please Tanks, reconsider this crazy idea

Message Edited by BDragon on 06-15-2005 08:28 PM

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NarfBlinko wrote:

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You failed to notice that Tanks was saying this bonus would only be in effect on BH missions, not in general. If it were just an in general mod, it would be gamebreaking, but not if it was only on BH missions. I would support such a mod and I'll tell you why. Who gets the ability to take missions to hunt Jedi? BHs at Inv 3, apparently. It was originally set up where only MBHs could do this. I say go back to that, no more of this pseudo-BH crap. Also, as a MBH, assuming no other elite combat professions, you are CL54, where Jedi are usually much higher. If you gain the ability to hunt Jedi at CL54, you should actually have a reasonable chance at succeeding. Under the current system, no MBH is going to be taking down Jedi without another elite combat profession of some kind. I read all this about the proper templated BH can take knights, but I'd argue that, assuming a MBH is the only one who can get a Jedi mission, a MBH should be able to take a knight, 1 on 1, with tactics, without relying on skills from another combat profession, at least some of the time. Just my .0000002cr.

Narf

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