Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: The Jedi Problem examined a call to reason
I didn't read the whole thing either because I got to the "fairness" issue that I have championed all along, and you, my friend, are way off base.
It is not level 10 characters complaining that level 80 characters are too powerful. It's double elite masters complaining that Jedi are too powerful. Double elite masters that have as many or more game hours, money, toys, experience (or would if not for xp caps) as any Jedi.
Our objection is not that the path of a Jedi leads to a powerful character. Our objection is that it's the ONLY path to a powerful character. And THAT is completely unfair. You talk about all the avenues that we can explore, but the very existence of an alpha class negates that for combat professions. It's either be a Jedi, or be weak. That doesn't sound like many options to explore to me.
Then there's the fact that Jedi infringe on other players' enjoyment of the game, particularly in regards to the GCW. What if that's the reason that I bought the game? What if that's the immersement I hoped to find? To be a stormtrooper waiting for a showdown with "rebel scum" in the Star Wars environment. Now exactly how long is a double-elite master going to last in a Special Forces status with the current state of the game? Exactly. So, his immersement in the Star Wars universe is effectively destroyed by the excessive power of an alpha class, and you have the audacity to ask us why there is resentment toward the Jedi population?
Only a Jedi (or one who wishes to be a Jedi) could justify the current situation as "fair". And I wish you luck with the future of SWG. Eventually, this problem, and it is a problem, is going to increase exponentially. Eventually, there will be two characters in this game: Jedi and the alts of Jedi. Everyone else will have had enough of getting their butt kicked simply because they wanted to be a stormtrooper, or Han Solo, or Boba Fett and not Luke Skywalker.
again, the fact remains, that the FORCE IS THE ONLY ALPHA
pretend the jedi progressions tree is the force progression tree and your done
Jedi is NOT a religion in the star wars universe, it is a title for an individual or refers to the order, and looking past names proper it refers to those whom are users of the force. and to add to the falsity of the rule of two regarding sith lords:
the Prophets of the Dark Side were a secret council of force sensitive individuals that served as advisors to Emperor Palpatine. The sect was founded by Darth Millenial, a Sith Lord who rejected the Rule of Two tradition begun by Darth Bane. The prophets were discovered by Palpatine, also known as Darth Sidious, and from their ancient Sith temple they acted as advisors. Some of Palpatine's Dark Side adepts are also beleived to have received some training time among the Prophets, including most notably (but unconfirmed), Darth Vader himself. Sometime before the Battle of Endor, the Prophets displeased the Emperor, and fled from his sight to a hidden sanctuary world which he didn't know about.
back to the subject at hand,
using the FORCE PROGRESSION TREE, and regular templates, it is not necessary to wield a lightsaber except for your initialnovicepowers box, then you never have to use it again if you don't want to.
Mandalorians ARE NOT ALPHA, they are BH/Commando and they got it handed to them at every turn:
the Mandalorians slowly transformed into a less clan-based, more mercenary-oriented culture. It was around this time that a schism occurred in their ranks. A violent splinter group, known as the Mandalorian Death Watch, revolted against the leadership of Jaster Mereel, who led the True Mandalorian loyalist faction.Eventually the civil war between these groups spilled on to the pastoral world of Concord Dawn. Here the Death Watch leader Vizsla attempted to murder Jaster. However, thanks to the assistance of a young orphan named Jango Fett, Jaster and his followers escaped the trap.Eventually, Viszla caught up to Jaster and the Mandalorians on a distant world and, thanks to the treachery of fellow Mandalorian Montross, Jaster Mereel was killed in battle.Jaster's protégé, Jango, took over the reins of leadership, despite Montross's disparaging comment that it would mean a "child leading them."Jango's tenure as Mandalorian leader ended at the Battle of Galidraan, where a Jedi taskforce under the leadership of Master Dooku led to the death of every remaining Mandalorian, except for Jango.After this disaster, the Mandalorians were effectively ended as a force in the galaxy. Individuals survived on both on Mandalore and in other isolated pockets of known space, but they played little influence on galactic affairs until the Clone Wars, when Jango Fett became the host for a Grand Army of the Republic. One clone trooper, an elite ARC trooper named Alpha-Ø2, ended up going rogue and changing the Mandalorians forever.Through some fluke of the Kaminoans' cloning technology, Alpha-Ø2 had memories of Jango Fett. He went to Mandalore and started rebuilding the Mandalorian supercommandos from Mandalorian Protectors, police, and even Death Watchmen. Alpha-Ø2 became Mandalore the Resurrector and his forces fought for Confederacy of Independent Systems. Among his troopers were Tobbi Dala and future Mandalore Fenn Shysa.
Twenty-six years after the Battle of Endor, the Mandalorians got a New Leader, Boba Fett, who became Mandalore after Fenn's death, and continuied the tradition of leading the Mandalorian Protectors. During the Yuuzhan Vong War, Fett lead the Mandalorian Protectors in the defense of Mandalore and liberated numerous planet like Tholatin and Gyndine.
Nightsisters: the FORCE PROGRESSION TREE when combined with regular professions, still gives them access to all the abilities they would have.
The Chiss were no match for Jedi, they bested, for a time, Thrawn's fleet, then they asked for imperial assistance, which they recieved, it was the focused might of the imperial fleet thatdestroyed the flight project.
your wrong, all the most powerful beings in the star wars galaxy used the force, and number two...if you remove lightsabers from the equation (which you can do in game after you get novice powers) they all bear a striking resemblence to jedi in this game...in fact your precious night sisters use jedi abilities, and in fact, use lightsaber specials.
correct, however, the Force is the Monopoly on strength in the star wars universe, again, pretend the Jedi progression tree is the Force progression tree...and your done, you got what you asked for.
Should I burst these nerds' bubble and tell them that if Lucas didn't write it, it didn't happen?
No, no...let it go...
Quiet420 wrote:
again, the fact remains, that the FORCE IS THE ONLY ALPHA
pretend the jedi progressions tree is the force progression tree and your done
Jedi is NOT a religion in the star wars universe, it is a title for an individual or refers to the order, and looking past names proper it refers to those whom are users of the force. and to add to the falsity of the rule of two regarding sith lords:
the Prophets of the Dark Side were a secret council of force sensitive individuals that served as advisors to Emperor Palpatine. The sect was founded by Darth Millenial, a Sith Lord who rejected the Rule of Two tradition begun by Darth Bane. The prophets were discovered by Palpatine, also known as Darth Sidious, and from their ancient Sith temple they acted as advisors. Some of Palpatine's Dark Side adepts are also beleived to have received some training time among the Prophets, including most notably (but unconfirmed), Darth Vader himself. Sometime before the Battle of Endor, the Prophets displeased the Emperor, and fled from his sight to a hidden sanctuary world which he didn't know about.
back to the subject at hand,
using the FORCE PROGRESSION TREE, and regular templates, it is not necessary to wield a lightsaber except for your initialnovicepowers box, then you never have to use it again if you don't want to.
Mandalorians ARE NOT ALPHA, they are BH/Commando and they got it handed to them at every turn:
the Mandalorians slowly transformed into a less clan-based, more mercenary-oriented culture. It was around this time that a schism occurred in their ranks. A violent splinter group, known as the Mandalorian Death Watch, revolted against the leadership of Jaster Mereel, who led the True Mandalorian loyalist faction.Eventually the civil war between these groups spilled on to the pastoral world of Concord Dawn. Here the Death Watch leader Vizsla attempted to murder Jaster. However, thanks to the assistance of a young orphan named Jango Fett, Jaster and his followers escaped the trap.Eventually, Viszla caught up to Jaster and the Mandalorians on a distant world and, thanks to the treachery of fellow Mandalorian Montross, Jaster Mereel was killed in battle.Jaster's protégé, Jango, took over the reins of leadership, despite Montross's disparaging comment that it would mean a "child leading them."Jango's tenure as Mandalorian leader ended at the Battle of Galidraan, where a Jedi taskforce under the leadership of Master Dooku led to the death of every remaining Mandalorian, except for Jango.After this disaster, the Mandalorians were effectively ended as a force in the galaxy. Individuals survived on both on Mandalore and in other isolated pockets of known space, but they played little influence on galactic affairs until the Clone Wars, when Jango Fett became the host for a Grand Army of the Republic. One clone trooper, an elite ARC trooper named Alpha-Ø2, ended up going rogue and changing the Mandalorians forever.Through some fluke of the Kaminoans' cloning technology, Alpha-Ø2 had memories of Jango Fett. He went to Mandalore and started rebuilding the Mandalorian supercommandos from Mandalorian Protectors, police, and even Death Watchmen. Alpha-Ø2 became Mandalore the Resurrector and his forces fought for Confederacy of Independent Systems. Among his troopers were Tobbi Dala and future Mandalore Fenn Shysa.
Twenty-six years after the Battle of Endor, the Mandalorians got a New Leader, Boba Fett, who became Mandalore after Fenn's death, and continuied the tradition of leading the Mandalorian Protectors. During the Yuuzhan Vong War, Fett lead the Mandalorian Protectors in the defense of Mandalore and liberated numerous planet like Tholatin and Gyndine.
Nightsisters: the FORCE PROGRESSION TREE when combined with regular professions, still gives them access to all the abilities they would have.
The Chiss were no match for Jedi, they bested, for a time, Thrawn's fleet, then they asked for imperial assistance, which they recieved, it was the focused might of the imperial fleet thatdestroyed the flight project.
your wrong, all the most powerful beings in the star wars galaxy used the force, and number two...if you remove lightsabers from the equation (which you can do in game after you get novice powers) they all bear a striking resemblence to jedi in this game...in fact your precious night sisters use jedi abilities, and in fact, use lightsaber specials.
correct, however, the Force is the Monopoly on strength in the star wars universe, again, pretend the Jedi progression tree is the Force progression tree...and your done, you got what you asked for.
Message Edited by Thassk on 07-25-2005 02:52 PM
a non jedi is never as strong as a jedi, just as a jedi in training is not a master
jedi is a title and an order, not a religion or a martial art, the saber disciplines are martial arts, jedi have no religion, there is only the force
the mandolorians lost, despite far superior numbers, any level of success they did have in the mandolorian war can be attributed to the point made below regarding the next subject.
not a fair fight, I, personally could knock any professional athlete out in ONE shotif I caught them by suprise andhit them in the back of the head with a tire iron.
I have better sources than google at my disposal
not posing, and not googling
I like em fine, but dey is oranges.
Message Edited by Quiet420 on 07-25-2005 05:57 PM
and in addition, about the Jedi that was 3 hit:
After the death of Yarael Poof, Jedi Master Coleman Trebor was asked to join the High Jedi Council. Trebor was a Jedi Council member who fought at the Battle of Geonosis. Early in the battle, he attempted to attack Count Dooku, but was shot and killed by Jango Fett. To his fellow Jedi, Trebor was revered for his wisdom and diplomacy skills. Coleman was a practitioner of lightsaber Form VI, Niman. This form of lightsaber combat is balanced, but ultimately weaker than the other six forms.
Trebor hails from Sembla, a warm ocean planet that is slowly forming continents, thanks to volcanic ridges.
Coleman Trebor was named after Star Wars CGI animator Rob Coleman.
he wasn't a fighter though (ie master healer, master enhancer, saber 4000 nov powers, possibly even politician instead of enhancer back in the days when it still cost skill pts)
they don't worship anything, shrines mark sites of signifigance, or concepts or individuals of great importance, if your path is that of a guardian, you need saber skills, if a counsular, see above...again, only for guardians...they have shrines, although not for worship, they follow moral law but that is not an indicator of religion, and they do train to fight, their physical training is martial arts, but Jedi remains a title of an individual or that of an order, not that of a religion, except on Earth.
the mandolorians did lose, the jedi did not lose to mandolorians, they lost to sith lords as a result of the beutiful smear job and set up sidious orchestrated....and, in the end, the sith lost, and the jedi won, until the next saga is written.
that sucks...ive never been hit by a bowling ball, but I got sucker punched by a US A Ranger in the back of the head in a game of pick up basketball, he proceeded to hit me about 15 times till I REGAINED conciousness, then I stood up, while he was still hammering (shoulda seen his face lol) he backed off and I advanced twards him, and he ran to the car and grabbed a baseball bat which I took from him...he wasn't quite as resiliant as you or I, thankfully. anyway, people get lucky...but most eryone, when they don't suspect it and their opponent is trying to end em, not just hurt em, can't stand against a sneak attack, especially against a gun, when their saber discipline doesnt afford them the luxary of saber block.
nothing against google
and I've noticed
Quiet420 wrote:
he wasn't a fighter though (ie master healer, master enhancer, saber 4000 nov powers, possibly even politician instead of enhancer back in the days when it still cost skill pts) ( he was a master!! and no politician does not take up skill points so you cant use that excuse!!! and no jedi master is gonna suck that bad no matter how they make their template ... so just get over it and admit it .. jango fett and mandolores are alpha)
they don't worship anything, shrines mark sites of signifigance, or concepts or individuals of great importance, if your path is that of a guardian, you need saber skills, if a counsular, see above...again, only for guardians...they have shrines, although not for worship, they follow moral law but that is not an indicator of religion, and they do train to fight, their physical training is martial arts, but Jedi remains a title of an individual or that of an order, not that of a religion, except on Earth. ( they are a religion ... grand moff tarkin even says so... so do others in the movies)
the mandolorians did lose, the jedi did not lose to mandolorians, they lost to sith lords as a result of the beutiful smear job and set up sidious orchestrated....and, in the end, the sith lost, and the jedi won, until the next saga is written. ( the jedi did not lose to mandolorians .. but as far as the movies go they did lose to the sith.. luke was the last and although he may have won .. jedi did not... and if you want to bring up the EU ... well the mandalores kicked jedi butt lots .. gave as good as they got .. and yes after Return of the jedi mandalores came back .. you cant deny they're alpha )
that sucks...ive never been hit by a bowling ball, but I got sucker punched by a US A Ranger in the back of the head in a game of pick up basketball, he proceeded to hit me about 15 times till I REGAINED conciousness, then I stood up, while he was still hammering (shoulda seen his face lol) he backed off and I advanced twards him, and he ran to the car and grabbed a baseball bat which I took from him...he wasn't quite as resiliant as you or I, thankfully. anyway, people get lucky...but most eryone, when they don't suspect it and their opponent is trying to end em, not just hurt em, can't stand against a sneak attack, especially against a gun, when their saber discipline doesnt afford them the luxary of saber block.( ok ... thats a great example then .. cuz why is it when a BH goes after a jedi and blows a droid up in his face then KD's him and pummels him with high damage shots .. the jedi gets up heals like its nothing and proceeds to lay the smacketh down? being a jedi and trying to argue for alpha status, you are arguing against yourself LOL )
nothing against google
and I've noticed
Thassk wrote:
Quiet420 wrote:
he wasn't a fighter though (ie master healer, master enhancer, saber 4000 nov powers, possibly even politician instead of enhancer back in the days when it still cost skill pts) ( he was a master!! and no politician does not take up skill points so you cant use that excuse!!! and no jedi master is gonna suck that bad no matter how they make their template ... so just get over it and admit it .. jango fett and mandolores are alpha) but until november (i think, cant remember the month specificly, but the formermayor ofmy city was gimped by the sp requirement)of last year politician DID take up skill points....and that was still in the esb timeframe that we're in now....so obviously, the during the clone wars, politician cost skill points.
they don't worship anything, shrines mark sites of signifigance, or concepts or individuals of great importance, if your path is that of a guardian, you need saber skills, if a counsular, see above...again, only for guardians...they have shrines, although not for worship, they follow moral law but that is not an indicator of religion, and they do train to fight, their physical training is martial arts, but Jedi remains a title of an individual or that of an order, not that of a religion, except on Earth. ( they are a religion ... grand moff tarkin even says so... so do others in the movies) only non jedi say those things, they also call jedi sorcerers, and say ancient powers are no match for a good blaster cmon now, HAHAHA
the mandolorians did lose, the jedi did not lose to mandolorians, they lost to sith lords as a result of the beutiful smear job and set up sidious orchestrated....and, in the end, the sith lost, and the jedi won, until the next saga is written. ( the jedi did not lose to mandolorians .. but as far as the movies go they did lose to the sith.. luke was the last and although he may have won .. jedi did not... and if you want to bring up the EU ... well the mandalores kicked jedi butt lots .. gave as good as they got .. and yes after Return of the jedi mandalores came back .. you cant deny they're alpha ) except for those descendent clones named ALPHA-01 and ALPHA-2 etc. they are not alphas...they had overwhelming numbers, thats what allowed them to compete. I deny it.
that sucks...ive never been hit by a bowling ball, but I got sucker punched by a US A Ranger in the back of the head in a game of pick up basketball, he proceeded to hit me about 15 times till I REGAINED conciousness, then I stood up, while he was still hammering (shoulda seen his face lol) he backed off and I advanced twards him, and he ran to the car and grabbed a baseball bat which I took from him...he wasn't quite as resiliant as you or I, thankfully. anyway, people get lucky...but most eryone, when they don't suspect it and their opponent is trying to end em, not just hurt em, can't stand against a sneak attack, especially against a gun, when their saber discipline doesnt afford them the luxary of saber block.( ok ... thats a great example then .. cuz why is it when a BH goes after a jedi and blows a droid up in his face then KD's him and pummels him with high damage shots .. the jedi gets up heals like its nothing and proceeds to lay the smacketh down? being a jedi and trying to argue for alpha status, you are arguing against yourself LOL ) despite the daze, and the blood squirting out of my eye, and the base of my skull, I did proceed to take the weapon away and lay the smack down, a one dinker, the kid just didn't have heart...he was trained as a Ranger, I'm the son of a Marine,I was trained as a highschool athlete, amatuer boxer, and star wars geek...the forcemust have beenstronger in me than it was with him. dont see how I'm contradicting myself...in game, and as you saw in the movie, a BH will beat a Jedi who has no ability to efficiently recover or take a blow every single time, although, again, as you see in the movies, bounty hunters didn't have much luck against those skilled in defenses and sabers (mace and luke)
nothing against google
and I've noticed
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion on how I acted, but at least I am coming to the table with an open mind. I expected, indeed wanted to hear other perspectives, and I can confess that some of the things I have read have given me moment to pause and rethink.Feel free to add as much depth and creativity as you think is needed, but let's not make it personal.
Thassk wrote:
you acted as if you addressed all the arguments people had in your original post .. but you didnt even TOUCH upon them .. you recited some shallow version of our ideas .. and rebuted all of them with equally shallow arguments ... none of which had any creativety, insight into community .. or depth of dream to them...
Message Edited by Thassk on 07-25-2005 11:26 AM
Great post Daeges.
I come to this forum often and noted the various factions you presented. I would present the sceanero: what if all Jedi were to vanish from the game tomorrow?
I think the answer would be obvious, most Bounty Hunters would give up their class as Jedi are their content.
Ironic that most people who complain about Jedi overpopulation are the ones that exclusively hunt them. If Jedi were as rare as they wanted them to be, there would be no Jedi on the terminals.
I play a Jedi. I've been playing since week one of this game and just finished my template last week. I also play a Bounty Hunter. I really never was drawn into the arguement that there were too many. In many of the classes I've played, the population of Jedi had no effect.... even with Bounty Hunter.
Niles_Sjostrom wrote:
I fully agree with the posts in the same vein as TheMadCoder and Saarkaiso far. The game used to actually have this thing called the Galactic Civil War in it. During the game's opening days you would see hundreds of players in combat as Rebels and Imperials in most of the major cities. Now you don't even see hundred of players in these same cities. This game is in shambles because of the devs disconnect with the Star Wars community. Any game with the Star Wars name is part of a franchise. SOE has not even begun to tap this franchise because most of us have learned how SOE ruined the SW feel in this game. I have played since day one (yes got about 4 hours in before the "big crash") and for the first time am truly thinking of taking time off, but not coming back when I think about SWG again. Many veteran players are leaving. These are the players that actually work and can continue to pay for our accounts. Little Johnny, sitting in his parent's basement milking money off of his folks, or little Johnny who is in school and plays in the summer, surely will have the time to grind out a Jedi but once the parents get sick of paying to play a video game each month, who's money will SOE want?
There is no question that when a person tries to throw vocabulary around in an attempt to appear well-educated (however; using the terms inaccurately in several instances) they fancy themselves an expert at life. Judging from Daedes register date (03-06-2005) he/she is in no way an expert at the way this game has progressed. Keep playing for a bit Daeges and see how Jedi have ruined this game. You too will eventually see this.
SOE markets the game as "The total experience" and "Everything you need to live the Star Wars experience online." They also claim it takes place post-Episode 4 and pre-Episode 5. This just does add up and is turning people off to the game.
In the old days, the cities were crowded on every server and the game had real upside. Today the game has no assemblance of the Galactic Civil War (the very premise of Lucas' creation in the first place!!) and in no way represents a time period set between Episode 4 and 5. The game has become a joke to Star Wars fans and we are leaving the game in mass. The website www.mmochart.com is proof of this in a bad way for SOE. Anytime someone posts a message here, on these boards, that challenges SOEs dev team and makes a real point of how the current game is in shambles compared to where the game used to be, the post is quickly deleted. Try it sometime (all those who understand how the game was). If you think this game is any fun, trust me...it was 1 million times better in the days when Jedi had no idea how to unlock and when it was truly a random occurance.
Message Edited by Niles_Sjostrom on 07-25-200501:53 PM