Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: The Jedi Problem examined a call to reason
JakeA007
Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:34 pm
#92
Quiet,
Why post so much on the history of Star Wars and Jedi when it is obvious that SOE has no intention of following Stars Wars canon/history?
Also, why didn't you respond to my post Deages? I was looking forward to having a civiilized arguement with you. lol
Message Edited by JakeA007 on 07-25-2005 08:10 PM
Message Edited by JakeA007 on 07-25-2005 08:18 PM
Message Edited by JakeA007 on 07-25-2005 08:38 PM
Thassk
Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:00 pm
#93
Daeges wrote:
hear other perspectives, and I can confess that some of the things I have read have given me moment to pause and rethink.Feel free to add as much depth and creativity as you think is needed, but let's not make it personal.
if you felt my post to be too personal, i apologize for writing my criticism of youropening postso aggressively .... the insight into your personality i've managed to accumilate from your posts actually makes me think your a cool guy ... that wasnt a personal attack at all ...
but the strong words, reflect my strong opinion that you didnt delve deep into the mindset of those you critisized, before writing your extensive theory, and i stand by that statement ... some of us ( for better or worse) have grown up with star wars ... the same way people of older generations admire and respect movies like gone with the wind .. or celebrities like elvis .. or are die hard fans of things like star trek .. of vampire novels ..for some of us .. its star wars ...
no i dont dress up like a wookie at the premieres .. no i dont carry around a star wars lunch box .. no i dont collect the toys at my age ... but ive watched the movies over a thousand times ... as an artist ive drawn thousands of pieces relating to star wars or star wars characters ... and one of my favorite passtimes is reading the comics ..'
i think of myself as a fan of the franchise ...so i do take the game maybe deeper than some...as do many other people ...
its not a matter of "saber envy" or one group having jealousy over another ... its not simple dislike for an alpha proffession because they have something we dont ... at this point the alpha profession is easy to obtain, andwithin this same point of time, more people than ever are vouching their opinions as to how the availablility and frequency of jedi has a significant effect on their perception of a world they have loved and partaken inprobably for most of their lives ...so if was assimple as being envious of something someone else has ... we would all just go out and get our own jedi ... without group visibility this can be done easily ..but as you see thats not the case .. people opinions regarding the matter are being displayed more now than ever ...
QuiJonOz
Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:11 pm
#94
Saarkai wrote:
You seem to forget that regardless of the timeline, faith to the movies, canon, whatever. It's just BAD game design to have an alpha class like jedi that isn't "very very very rare"
QFE. You want to end Jedi Hate? Balance them with the rest of the professions and quit making the game revolve around them. Did a Jedi save the Rebellion from being destroyed at Yavin 4? No, it was a Smuggler/Neutral Ace in a YT-1300 that kept Vader from blowing away Luke. The game isn't just about Jedi, they just happen to be the flashiest, hence coolest, part.
Thassk
Mon Jul 25, 2005 8:13 pm
#95
AZFisher wrote:
Great post Daeges.
I come to this forum often and noted the various factions you presented. I would present the sceanero: what if all Jedi were to vanish from the game tomorrow?
I think the answer would be obvious, most Bounty Hunters would give up their class as Jedi are their content.
Ironic that most people who complain about Jedi overpopulation are the ones that exclusively hunt them. If Jedi were as rare as they wanted them to be, there would be no Jedi on the terminals.
I play a Jedi. I've been playing since week one of this game and just finished my template last week. I also play a Bounty Hunter. I really never was drawn into the arguement that there were too many. In many of the classes I've played, the population of Jedi had no effect.... even with Bounty Hunter.
your conclusions are 100% accurate .. with diminished jedi numbers we would have diminished content ... so that should be enough to tell you that many of the concerns people are expressing have nothing to do with the BH/jedi dynamic .. nothing to do with our professions ... a strong clash between opnions has formed .. and i label it as such ..
the purist fansof bothstar wars and traditional mmorpg'sVS. theleet'ers, self centered jedi fans, and gamers who just dont care
many jedi enjoy being alpha .. and enjoy having templates with better benefits than regular professions, and at the same time enjoy the fact others refuse to take jedi ... because it gives them an easier time to compete in a PVP world ...
an alpha profession can only thrive in a world where other professions arent alpha.. for if everyone was jedi this game would die fast ...
but on the opppsite side regular professionscan thrive and be very sucessfull without the alpha.. think about that ...thats why BH were put into the game ...
Lemiskan
Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:46 pm
#96
Hey dude I think that the biggest load of you know what I have ever read in my entire life. Get real its a game and the jedi are just the people who hit the top first and naturally you knewcomers are mad because of how long the veterans have been playing and want to be jedi to ,but realize that you never probably in most cases will because you sit on these dang forums and complain how the game should be. btw anyone who reads the forums read the dates besides the names it helps you figure how much luppawappa your going to read
TheMadCoder
Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:54 pm
#97
Lemiskan wrote:
Hey dude I think that the biggest load of you know what I have ever read in my entire life. Get real its a game and the jedi are just the people who hit the top first and naturally you knewcomers are mad because of how long the veterans have been playing and want to be jedi to ,but realize that you never probably in most cases will because you sit on these dang forums and complain how the game should be. btw anyone who reads the forums read the dates besides the names it helps you figure how much luppawappa your going to read
Are you going to call me a newcomer, as well? I'm not a Jedi. I won't want to play a Jedi. I want a game where people can choose a full template combat profession and not be "owned" by an over-powered one. I respect the people who are slowly but surely taking themselves up the Jedi tree, and remaining reasonably hidded and staying off the boards. However, an alpha class in any game is only going to lead to little kiddies with too much time on their hands grinding to the top and, again, "owning" people. Not generalizing. There are a few very mature people in the Jedi profession. Most of them I've met (in PvP or not) have been the most immature players I've ever met - in thisMMORPG or any other (I started with Maridian then Ultima Online - been playing awhile...)
Alpha classes attract the worst element.
dezi
Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:00 am
#98
Dude pls. I wont even respond, because you dont get it. And if you dont get it, then you just dont.
Daeges wrote:
"You seem to forget that regardless of the timeline, faith to the movies, canon, whatever. It's just BAD game design to have an alpha class like jedi that isn't "very very very rare"
Is that what we have? One Alfa class? Aren't there 5 different masteries in Jedi, withmany moredifferent combination of double masteries? What comes after? The new FRS hasn't determined what more may come. That aside, let's examine the heart of your statement:
'It's bad game design to have such a class(es) that aren't very rare.' How? Why? What happens? Saying "it's just bad" doesn't help us understand the problem. What does the jedi population at anysize, do to you playing the game? Is all the content consumed? Can you not persue your ambitions? What doors close to you as the jedi population rises?
Quiet420
Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:11 am
#99
Origins of the Order
The Jedi Knights were an order of individuals who had the ability to touch and work alongside the Force, shunning its dark side. The order began tens of thousands of years before the rise of the Galactic Empire. Many ancient and semi-legendary organizations have been proposed as the forerunners of the Jedi Order, such as the Order of Dai Bendu or the Chatos Academy, but no conclusive links have ever been shown. Likewise, the birth planet of the order is unknown. There are many candidates, including such known worlds as Coruscant, Ossus, Corellia, and Utapau, as well as mythic, lost planets such as Had Abbadon, and Ondos.
It is known, however, that the brightest and best philosophers, priests, and warriors came together on a single world long ago to discuss their discoveries involving the enigmatic, mystical Force, and that the concentration of these efforts eventually led to the development of the Jedi Order.
Quiet420
Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:33 am
#100
The Great Schism
the Sith Order, or cult, was first established when dissident Jedi discovered that "true" power was achieved not through pensive meditation, as taught by their Jedi Masters, but through emotion. The tension between the Jedi and these dissident Dark Jedi, led by Xendor, the first Dark Jedi, grew until conflict erupted, thousands of years before the Battle of Yavin. This conflict, called the Great Schism, led to the Dark Jedi being banished by the Old Republic. These outcasts found a new home on the distant planet of Korriban, a desolate world inhabited by the relatively primitive Sith people. However, the Force flowed strongly with these Sith, allowing them to create their own brand of black magic. The Dark Jedi saw this as an opportunity to gain additional power. Using their training in the Force, the Dark Jedi amazed the Sith and elevated themselves to god-like status on Korriban, becoming the rulers of the Sith people. As years passed, and interbreeding occured between the Dark Jedi and the Sith, the term "Sith" came to mean not the original insect-like inhabitants of Korriban, but their Dark Jedi masters as well. It is from this rise to power and integration into Sith culture that the term Dark Lord of the Sith was first conceived as a title bestowed upon the leader of the Sith Empire by a council of lesser Sith Lords. Sometime during the early history of the Sith Empire, the coming of the Sith'ari, the prophesied savior of the Sith Order, was foretold. The Sith'ari was a perfect being who would rise to power and bring balance to the Force. According to prophecy, the Sith'ari would rise up and destroy the Sith, but in the process would return to lead the Sith and make them stronger than ever before, a striking parallel to the Chosen One of Jedi legend, though it is most likely that the Sith'ari and Chosen One are one and the same.
Thassk
Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:34 am
#101
Quiet420 wrote:
the balance of power never shifts...whenever there are Jedi there are Sith...whenever there are Sith, there are Jedi....whatever you want to call them...while picking up a lightsaber and battling evil does not make one a member of the Jedi Order, it does make one a "Jedi", same can be said of those who pursue power for its own purpose, they are not true Dark Jedi, but are in fact "Dark Jedi"....play the game however you want to play it...but the Force is the only Alpha in the Star Wars universe...if your a female and want to play a nightsister, get some force powers and grab a melee weapon....if you want to be a Royal Guardsman...get some pike skills and some defender....if you want to be a Jedi fill your template, same thing for a Dark Jedi....all the other alpha classes proposed already exist if you manage your template properly, there were at least 2 other unturned survivors from the Jedi order besides Obi-wan, and Yoda, and for all we know, they went to Dathomir and attempted to start the New Jedi Order in a village called Aurillia years before Luke did. Jedi in the Star Wars Universe is not a religion, it is a Title, it is only a Religion on Earth.and about the lightsabers, sure they did, not all of them, but several did.
i see your turning the whole thing into an argument for pro-jedi alpha status
those two descriptions you quote are for JEDI and sith? what possible value do they have in supporting your argument that any being who uses the force is either jedi or "dark jedi" ?
and no there arent SITH to every jedi.. havent you ever heard of the law of two? ever wonder why the emperor has a new aspiring apprentice kill his old one? there can only be TWO sithat any one giventime ..
and no not all force-wielders use lightsabers, no these other force users dont wear jedi garbs .. no they dont follow the religion and no they arent jedi!
if you want to dive into theeu ill be more than happy to ... ive worked as a comic book artist for god sakes .. lol..my life has pretty much been all about sci fi .. fiction .. whether it be star wars or one of the many other space opera/cyberpunk strains...
now dont think im not perceptive enough to realize where your argument stems from ..you have grinded your jedi .. and now DREAD the prospect of other classes coming in to challenge your superiority ..
lets address thisunder PURE simple logic ... ( why would the birth of new elite professions to give veterans who arent jedi a reason for staying and continuing to play ) threaten you? what realistic argument could you ever come up with to hide your dissapointment in no longer being alpha? or the fact that you too would not want jedi and have to regrind for the other uber profession?
Message Edited by Thassk on 07-25-2005 12:48 PM
JakeA007
Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:32 am
#102
Lemiskan,
Are you calling me a noob based on the fact that i haven't unlocked my jedi? I've been playing this game since the first month of it's release so i'm pretty sure that i'm a veteran too.
Daeges
Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:58 am
#103
JakeA007 wrote:
Quiet,
Why post so much on the history of Star Wars and Jedi when it is obvious that SOE has no intention of following Stars Wars canon/history?
Also, why didn't you respond to my post Deages? I was looking forward to having a civiilized arguement with you. lol
Message Edited by JakeA007 on 07-25-2005 08:10 PM
Message Edited by JakeA007 on 07-25-2005 08:18 PM
Message Edited by JakeA007 on 07-25-2005 08:38 PM
I'm mostly digesting what others have offered, but plan to offer a follow-up in the next few days, and your post will be part of the input to that.
Quiet420
Tue Jul 26, 2005 11:23 pm
#104
but thats the beauty of it...SWG is primarily cannon anddraws from the EU...in addition, it allows us to actually effect and play our way into our own VEU, which can be further built upon....yes, in the movies, jedi were limited, but if you think about it, compared to npc's and the masses of npc's we don't see based on the known but impossible to represent in game populations of the various planets, while more common than one may think, Jedi are still quite rare...I for one know I have defended myself from and thuskilled many 10's of thousands of storm troopers....for every one jedi, there are several million sentient beings, the majority of which, of course are tradesmen, farmers, rank and file soldiers, etc....our characters are not luke's or vaders, or han's or bobba's for that matter, but we are far from extras, as our VEU develops, we learn new things, such as there was a village on dathomir which trained a generation of Jedi in a time period they were thought to be all but extinct, faced great odds, andwere forced, with only minimal training, to venture forth and develop their skills on their own,these Jedi, not members of the old Jedi order, and predating the new Jedi order, have never previously had their stories told...we see that they possessed great power, although insignifigant to that of the sith lord vader, and eventhe"dark jedi masters" directly trained by the emporer.....enclaves were established, and there was hope, even in these troubled times...and of course, as always, this hope was balanced...for there will always be those who seek power soley to support their own twisted agendas....SWG does follow the star wars history, but it does not JUST follow the star wars history...It writes its own, Just as Kotoradded to theEU, so does SWG, the exciting part, in SWG, is that we play a role for it is the Greatest Saga Ever told, Ours.
JakeA007 wrote:
Quiet,
Why post so much on the history of Star Wars and Jedi when it is obvious that SOE has no intention of following Stars Wars canon/history?