Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: FORCE CLOAK, MASTER TITLE NERF NEEDED
RebsBeware wrote:
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
RebsBeware wrote:
KyiasLightsun wrote:
ok...I read alot of psots about "cloak is teh suck" so thought I'd throw in my 2 cents...
For the record: I am an old MBH, fought knights when they blocked all my shots...and I am now a cloak Jedi...no FR2. If the Jedi you fight does have FR2, then he is sacrificing other neccessary skills.
Key is, most of us have little defense...cloak takes up 20 SP...that's 20 SP that could be put in defender, put in sabers, put in enhancer....anywhere to enhance our combat prowess...but instead we choose to pickup cloak.
Why?
because it fits our role...we are not tanks, nor do we wish to be...we hit fast, take out group stragglers so they are watching over their back, and then get out of the way.
We could be considered herders of sorts...trying to keep all the enemy overts together...they leave the pack they die.
I got off track...
anyway, cloak makes a role...it's either an escape tool for low Jedi, used by full templates to be out of sight in places like theed and C-net, and lastly it is used to become the role of the silent killer...fading in and out of the scene.
now on the flip side...you people probably wonder how you combat this..the answer is VERY simple...you all think you need to be in our saber range to keep it off, but that isn't the case....stay 20M-15M from your mark, and he won't cloak ever! will he catch you? only if you don't control his movements...roots and snares are the best tools you have agaisnt a Jedi...it's the ability to make him do what you want...utilize it.
Cloakers may gain a stealth advantage, but we LACK either offense or defense power in exchange.....and normally it is a hit to our defenses.
Ridiculous. You can build a very powerful defense/offense template and include cloak. Its not a stealthy killer, its an invisible man suit, as you can activate it too often, too easily, and from too close. Its meant to be a mind trick right? Not actually becoming invisible. How do you explain mind tricking 20 people that are all stood 25 meters away from you shooting you in the face? Stealthy killer my arse, its almost like a god button, 20 meters is nothing. You ever thought to attain the roots and snares you are talking about to control the jedi's range to youthe bh needs to sacrifice a lot of offense/defence ability as well?
MLS/MDef/0400. Now, do you give up healing, attack speed, or force regen?
MBH/MPistoleer/Carbines 0110/Medic 0020 - Root/Snare/KD (multiples of them/Bleed/great heals with the right BE clothing. Melee Def 180. Ranged Def 195. General ranged accuracy 165.
Neither MLS not Mdef are required for a good jedi. By suggesting this is what you need you arent a good jedi. Any one of the ls trees plus 0004 is sufficient, and as far as defender goes, 0040, if you have a lot of enhancer for snares and roots to control the BH's range, and have force armour (for the short time you are visible from your cloak) is more than enough. MDEF/MLS/Healer = nub jedi.
My rifle BH's advanced laser is 1184 unpupped, thats one lower than the absolute maximum possible cap for a rifle in game of 1185 ( the ws must have had a bad day 
). It takes me a minimum of 5 shots to incap a full template (accounting for misses due to their defender/blocks/damage mitigation). If you couldnt get force armour up in the 10 seconds or so those 5 shots (best case) take, or a heal, or kd him, root him, and move to 21m range to cloak, eat food, prepare and attack back, then I dont know what you are doing wrong.
If he caught you unawares, ie afk, or in the middle of a large pve lair, already on very low health so 1-2 hits incapped you then thats a good job on his part, and a totally different scenario to the one we are talking about cloak mostly being used in.
ShaikeRamjet wrote:
Whacked wrote:
HyprHypo wrote:
Whacked wrote:
I can see it comming,...
NERF HILLS!
NERF TREES!!!1!
NERF ALL BUILDINGS AND STRUCTURES!!1!!
They block LOS so need to be NERFED!
We are talking about a skill that avoids death of any kind and more. Trees, buildings, LOS and crap should always be in the game, makes it more 3D, since everyone has the ability to use them for their tactics (nonexploiting of course) it's cool with me.
OK. So what chance does a CL30-60 Jedi have against a CL80 BH? None, so the Jedi cloaks and runs away.
As for those that use cloak to turn the tables and first strike (again) on a BH,... well after a couple months of bottomfeeding BH, its time for payback. reap what you sow.
and no, I dont have cloak.
cloak doesnt need to go to the master box. after all, what would take its place? and the master box already has some decent skills.
Maybe a better alternative is a delay, like maybe 5 seconds or so between uncloaking and attacking. After all, if your using cloak to avoid a fight, you shouldnt rush back into combat.
Reap what you sow?!?! I have never hunted anything less than a 200k+ Jedi. Don't generalize the entire profession. And besides that, Padawan have it rough because of the gold at the end of the proverbial rainbow that Jedi is. Don't come here with your arrogance and your prepubescent ingnorance. The grind is NOT hard, it is long and boring. You did not "work" for your profession by going afk on the Rryyat Trails nor did you "work" hard for your profession by using the respec exploit. The only thing that makes it hard for a Jedi is the Bounty Hunter.And before you try to call me a hipocrit about generalizing... there were more Jedi created in the last 2 months than since the Jedi profession was made public, due to double XP and the Rryyat Trails. That pretty much generalizes itself since those Jedi are now the majority.
Then you Shaike are among the Minority among BH.
On a typical 3-4hr grind session, I'd see 1-4 BH after a jedi in group. ALL of them was after the lowbie Jedi. Pretty hard not to generalize.
And before you slam me for generalizing, not all Jedi grind on Rryyat. I know several Jedi that never have, and now with the group vis changes, never will.
Cada_Kai wrote:
FeistySheister wrote:
JeetBadwarrior wrote:
ummm...you should use tatics other then riding out on your swoop hoping off and trying to shock an awe them to death...very rarely works...your better of stalking your target learn where he goes and doesnt go where he lives where he fly in and out of...you know hunting not waypoint chasing...catch em when there chating them self up with there buddies in the starport if I know one thing to be true in this game most jedi are 1 cretures of habit and 2 have a burning desire to show in starports
Yes, but there are jedi with force run and+cluck+I mean +cloak+. I like knowing where they log in and out and what they do, but anticipation has never been a substitute for parwan nutricake and good old fashioned burstrun. Force run and cloak combined is the worst. Burstrun and Paralyze / KD ftw.
/sign
Message Edited by FeistySheister on 07-19-200503:55 PM
Cloak is the tool fro Jedi who do not want to fight.
When I was leveling I took up Cloak incase I needed it.
later in my career I decided that the skill points would be usefull elsewhere and dropped it like a bad habit.
This is something that you as a BH will have to deal with. Some cloak and run, others stand and fight.
You canmore than notbeat a jedi with Cloak if you dont give them the chance to cloak.
RebsBeware wrote:My rifle BH's advanced laser is 1184 unpupped, thats one lower than the absolute maximum possible cap for a rifle in game of 1185 ( the ws must have had a bad day
If he caught you unawares, ie afk, or in the middle of a large pve lair, already on very low health so 1-2 hits incapped you then thats a good job on his part, and a totally different scenario to the one we are talking about cloak mostly being used in.
yeh, my scenario I was semi-AFK and running off of a 56k.
If you fight a known cloaker, you have to take into account the fact he might use it...and plan accordingly. If they are in the wild grinding, then appraoch from the side with less critters...force him to go into the lairs..make it his only real option. If he doesn't grind anymore, wait him out....he'll PvP or duel sometime.
To me it's just like hunting pre-CU knights with a carbine...you have to pick your battles and use alternative methods.
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
RebsBeware wrote:
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
RebsBeware wrote:
KyiasLightsun wrote:
ok...I read alot of psots about "cloak is teh suck" so thought I'd throw in my 2 cents...
For the record: I am an old MBH, fought knights when they blocked all my shots...and I am now a cloak Jedi...no FR2. If the Jedi you fight does have FR2, then he is sacrificing other neccessary skills.
Key is, most of us have little defense...cloak takes up 20 SP...that's 20 SP that could be put in defender, put in sabers, put in enhancer....anywhere to enhance our combat prowess...but instead we choose to pickup cloak.
Why?
because it fits our role...we are not tanks, nor do we wish to be...we hit fast, take out group stragglers so they are watching over their back, and then get out of the way.
We could be considered herders of sorts...trying to keep all the enemy overts together...they leave the pack they die.
I got off track...
anyway, cloak makes a role...it's either an escape tool for low Jedi, used by full templates to be out of sight in places like theed and C-net, and lastly it is used to become the role of the silent killer...fading in and out of the scene.
now on the flip side...you people probably wonder how you combat this..the answer is VERY simple...you all think you need to be in our saber range to keep it off, but that isn't the case....stay 20M-15M from your mark, and he won't cloak ever! will he catch you? only if you don't control his movements...roots and snares are the best tools you have agaisnt a Jedi...it's the ability to make him do what you want...utilize it.
Cloakers may gain a stealth advantage, but we LACK either offense or defense power in exchange.....and normally it is a hit to our defenses.
Ridiculous. You can build a very powerful defense/offense template and include cloak. Its not a stealthy killer, its an invisible man suit, as you can activate it too often, too easily, and from too close. Its meant to be a mind trick right? Not actually becoming invisible. How do you explain mind tricking 20 people that are all stood 25 meters away from you shooting you in the face? Stealthy killer my arse, its almost like a god button, 20 meters is nothing. You ever thought to attain the roots and snares you are talking about to control the jedi's range to youthe bh needs to sacrifice a lot of offense/defence ability as well?
MLS/MDef/0400. Now, do you give up healing, attack speed, or force regen?
MBH/MPistoleer/Carbines 0110/Medic 0020 - Root/Snare/KD (multiples of them/Bleed/great heals with the right BE clothing. Melee Def 180. Ranged Def 195. General ranged accuracy 165.
Neither MLS not Mdef are required for a good jedi. By suggesting this is what you need you arent a good jedi. Any one of the ls trees plus 0004 is sufficient, and as far as defender goes, 0040, if you have a lot of enhancer for snares and roots to control the BH's range, and have force armour (for the short time you are visible from your cloak) is more than enough. MDEF/MLS/Healer = nub jedi.
Until you've actually fought me, you don't have a clue what kind of Jedi I am. I know that Jediis the only thing that you care about, but once your temp is done, Jedi vs Jedi is the biggest concern. Or hadn't you heard that FRS advancement is going to be based on 1v1 Jedi combat?
The fact of the matter is, you're proposing moving the only worthwhile non-Master ability into the master box. That's equivalent to moving all the pistoleer specials into the Master Pistoleer box.
But we can't have that, now can we?
You suggested mls/mdef mate, not me. I dont really care what template jedi you are, but you suggested mdef/mls as the only way to build a powerful offence/defence combo, which is myopic. You are saying there are no other worthwhile abilities in the non master powers skillset? You should have experimented a lot more during the respec with your jedi, I know I did.
Cloak is of paramount concern in the new FRS, as it will be the best way to avoid losing ranking to a jedi that you meet that is stronger than you, kd him and run away. And also the best way to creep up unawares on a likely target yourself, for a quick gank to gain ranking when another FRS ranked jedi's pants are down.
Move choke out of master and replace it with cloak, move breach out, replace with cloak. The fact stands that cloak is easily the best ability and most powerful ability of any char in the game (apart from my IG girls /melt, /fuzzy ability) , and thus deserves to be a master box only skill.
Martimus wrote:
How about your focus on learning how to play your respec template, instead of complaining about 15% of non MLS/MDEF Jedi that have cloak. There are a lot more powerful Jedi templates then ones with cloak, so be careful what you wish for. If they nerf cloak you will just have to find another scapegoat why you are getting your butt spanked by Jedi.
RebsBeware wrote:
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
RebsBeware wrote:
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
RebsBeware wrote:
KyiasLightsun wrote:
ok...I read alot of psots about "cloak is teh suck" so thought I'd throw in my 2 cents...
For the record: I am an old MBH, fought knights when they blocked all my shots...and I am now a cloak Jedi...no FR2. If the Jedi you fight does have FR2, then he is sacrificing other neccessary skills.
Key is, most of us have little defense...cloak takes up 20 SP...that's 20 SP that could be put in defender, put in sabers, put in enhancer....anywhere to enhance our combat prowess...but instead we choose to pickup cloak.
Why?
because it fits our role...we are not tanks, nor do we wish to be...we hit fast, take out group stragglers so they are watching over their back, and then get out of the way.
We could be considered herders of sorts...trying to keep all the enemy overts together...they leave the pack they die.
I got off track...
anyway, cloak makes a role...it's either an escape tool for low Jedi, used by full templates to be out of sight in places like theed and C-net, and lastly it is used to become the role of the silent killer...fading in and out of the scene.
now on the flip side...you people probably wonder how you combat this..the answer is VERY simple...you all think you need to be in our saber range to keep it off, but that isn't the case....stay 20M-15M from your mark, and he won't cloak ever! will he catch you? only if you don't control his movements...roots and snares are the best tools you have agaisnt a Jedi...it's the ability to make him do what you want...utilize it.
Cloakers may gain a stealth advantage, but we LACK either offense or defense power in exchange.....and normally it is a hit to our defenses.
Ridiculous. You can build a very powerful defense/offense template and include cloak. Its not a stealthy killer, its an invisible man suit, as you can activate it too often, too easily, and from too close. Its meant to be a mind trick right? Not actually becoming invisible. How do you explain mind tricking 20 people that are all stood 25 meters away from you shooting you in the face? Stealthy killer my arse, its almost like a god button, 20 meters is nothing. You ever thought to attain the roots and snares you are talking about to control the jedi's range to youthe bh needs to sacrifice a lot of offense/defence ability as well?
MLS/MDef/0400. Now, do you give up healing, attack speed, or force regen?
MBH/MPistoleer/Carbines 0110/Medic 0020 - Root/Snare/KD (multiples of them/Bleed/great heals with the right BE clothing. Melee Def 180. Ranged Def 195. General ranged accuracy 165.
Neither MLS not Mdef are required for a good jedi. By suggesting this is what you need you arent a good jedi. Any one of the ls trees plus 0004 is sufficient, and as far as defender goes, 0040, if you have a lot of enhancer for snares and roots to control the BH's range, and have force armour (for the short time you are visible from your cloak) is more than enough. MDEF/MLS/Healer = nub jedi.
Until you've actually fought me, you don't have a clue what kind of Jedi I am. I know that Jediis the only thing that you care about, but once your temp is done, Jedi vs Jedi is the biggest concern. Or hadn't you heard that FRS advancement is going to be based on 1v1 Jedi combat?
The fact of the matter is, you're proposing moving the only worthwhile non-Master ability into the master box. That's equivalent to moving all the pistoleer specials into the Master Pistoleer box.
But we can't have that, now can we?
You suggested mls/mdef mate, not me. I dont really care what template jedi you are, but you suggested mdef/mls as the only way to build a powerful offence/defence combo, which is myopic. You are saying there are no other worthwhile abilities in the non master powers skillset? You should have experimented a lot more during the respec with your jedi, I know I did.
Cloak is of paramount concern in the new FRS, as it will be the best way to avoid losing ranking to a jedi that you meet that is stronger than you, kd him and run away. And also the best way to creep up unawares on a likely target yourself, for a quick gank to gain ranking when another FRS ranked jedi's pants are down.
Move choke out of master and replace it with cloak, move breach out, replace with cloak. The fact stands that cloak is easily the best ability and most powerful ability of any char in the game (apart from my IG girls /melt, /fuzzy ability) , and thus deserves to be a master box only skill.
Nooooooo that's not what I said. I didn't say it was the only way.
And I didn't unlock until the first respec period was just about done. No time to test respecs then. 
Yes, you can maybe avoid losing rank with cloak, but cloak isn't likely to GET you any rank.
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
Do you know what the PVP damage for Improved Lightning is? It's a good deal less than 1185.
RebsBeware wrote:
My rifle BH's advanced laser is 1184 unpupped, thats one lower than the absolute maximum possible cap for a rifle in game of 1185 ( the ws must have had a bad day
If he caught you unawares, ie afk, or in the middle of a large pve lair, already on very low health so 1-2 hits incapped you then thats a good job on his part, and a totally different scenario to the one we are talking about cloak mostly being used in.
And a BH SHOULD be attacking when a Jedi is at low strength. I don't complain about that.
Martimus wrote:
How about your focus on learning how to play your respec template, instead of complaining about 15% of non MLS/MDEF Jedi that have cloak. There are a lot more powerful Jedi templates then ones with cloak, so be careful what you wish for. If they nerf cloak you will just have to find another scapegoat why you are getting your butt spanked by Jedi.
Who are you?
Respec, good joke. I expect it likely I was a bh before you were a jedi, considering I was before there WERE player jedi. And suffered the indignity of a template that had lower defences than a master dancer.
If 85% of jedi on your server are mls/mdef I pity you, you have a retarded server indeed. Thats what all ours were for about 4 weeks after the CU. Then they learned how to really play a jedi. Cloak is the most powerul ability of all the jedi have, as it gives you the ability to pick your time, and opportunity, it gives you control, and that is the most powerful strength of all. Thus, the most powerful jedi temps have cloak. Try and get away from your caveman stand up knockdown idea of power. The way we use it is to have my two mates and me on TS (for perfect timing), 2 mpowers, one menh with cloak. Pick a mark on the edge of the pvp pack, all decloak simultaneously, the menh with a root then armour break, the two mpowers both with force breach, then a kd. then three powerhit/head hits and poof, insta incap. If for some mad reason you didnt kill your target in that 4-5 second session with the approximate 5k damage you just dealt, the menh whacks on a stasis, to stop heals, and all three powerhit again. Nothing ever survives it, ever. Then a quick 20m hop away, recloak, do it again.
Cloak is the most powerful ability, both in pvp, and duels, as YOU HAVE CONTROL.
I know perfectly how to play the one of my mbh that is respecced, and the one that most DEFINITELY is not, which is why I solo hunt 219k plus with both of them. I get my butt spanked as a bh by the guys that know how to play their respec (cos you dont need mls/enh4004/healer 4004 like pre CU, which is what the good ones were then, so they damn well respecced at CU I think, rather than grind their new temps, I know I did) JEDI well, not template sheep like you. This is because no matter what people say, even with the horrible heal nerf, jedi is still easily the most powerful pvp prof, we all know it. Its the exceptional bh that beat the average full temps that people use as an example for jedi being weak, and is total rubbish.
Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:
FeistySheister wrote:
The nerf, and all the changes they implemented, i could take without the bugs. Aside from the bugs, the thing that makes being a bh ridiculous is the amount new jedi showing up daily. They have a whole freaking planet to grind on damn! Its not just a joke for us, but to the hologrinder jedi who busted their asses and were doing /examine on every dot that showed up on their radar while grinding in seclusion. Its a slap in the face to both our profs. i just dont get it.
Everything I've seen and heard indicates they're content with the idea of Jedi being a common profession, and nerfing it commiserate to it's rarity.
Jedi sells boxes, and the noobie buying the box doesn't know or care about the Jedi explosion in the game well past the limits of even the EU's treatment of the timeline. They just want a glo-bat. And I can't blame 'em. Glo-bats are cool.
Then you've got the old-timers who've done everything else in the game. They're bored and all that's left is Jedi.
Then you've got the hardcore PVPer who will camp eleventy bazillion and one hours for a weapon that gives them an edge in the GCW.
Those last two SCREAM for a need for professions that can rival a Jedi in power.
Instead, every indication is that SOE will nerf Jedi down to a glorified swordsman with a flashlight.
/applaud
This is the most eloquent, entertaining and accurate explanation of the problem that I've read so far. The bottom line is that they're selling the game on being a Jedi, but they can't make the Jedi the all-powerful class it should be and still let everyonebecome one.
One of the conrnerstones of the MMORPG is that every class be reasonably balanced in skills and abilities, and Jedi simply fly in the face of that.You can't have a god-class and expect anyone to play the less powerful lackeys. The only solution is that Jedi are nerfed to the point where they're barely better than the rest of the combat classes, so as not to offend anyone or, heaven forbid, "ruin their gameplay experience".