Bounty Hunter Archive

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ShaikeRamjet wrote:

The Jedi knew I was their only after the first shot. The Jedi actually waited until I was about to leave... I pull out my speeder and as soon as I pulled it out, he decloaked and destroyed my speeder and then attacked me. As soon as I start gaining the upper hand he cloaks again... and force regens. He can keep that up indefinitely. There is no way to win against it. He can't kill me, I definitely can't kill him... so I have to abort the mission.

So for the sake of someone getting cloak, I am unable to complete a mission on them. Then you have greivers who use the exploit to torment a would be attacker. Seriously, Feign Death was nerfed for the sole purpose that people could use it and completely escape death. And now... Cloakers get the ability to escape death and regen their force all at the same time... and get a first attack on a Bounty Hunter.

And yes, it is a first attack since I can no longer target them, and they can target me and initiate the attack. By the way... exactly how am I "full of poop?"

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Got to ask since your actions lack common sense.

Jedi/bh tef is 2.5 min why did you pull your speeder out when the tef was active?

If it was to bate the jedi into uncloaking. When he did uncloak why didn't you get into the 20m range, KD and root?. Cloak doesn't seem to be the issue it's your lack of tactics that seem to be the problem.

If your a BH you have a KD. If you plan on being a good BH you have a root or snare so not sure why none of this was used to negate cloak.

Of course you haven't describe the entire fight but just from what you've given us you seem to lack a basic understanding of your marks skills.

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ShaikeRamjet wrote:
(...)But it's not about "keeping people below me" it's about keeping exploits from happening. And it just seems so funny how the majority of the exploits that are found are Jedi based... Wow. LOS on the Rryyat Trails, overloaded sabers (x2), attacking while cloaked, using a broken TEF in order to drop houses and hide in them, using macros in order to hit twice in one second, the respec exploit allowing you to train in low level skills and place them in the high level boxes bypassing the XP requirements... the list goes on and on.

The funny thing is... you guys try to justify it all. You all say that "Not everyone used that" blah blah blah.(...)

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Actually, this is not about you keeping exploits from happening, this is about you trying to nerf skills because some people exploited them or unintentionally got bugged while using them.

a) LoS on the Rryyat Trails is used by BHs and Jedi alike. Go to the BH forum and read the posts about walking off the trail to avoid aggro, go to the Jedi forums and read the posts about BHs happening to fight a full template down there running into the LoS spot to avoid being killed by the Jedi.

b) Overloaded sabers is exploited by Jedi. Double-slicing weapons was exploited by Smugglers, and BHs used those weapons. Same with non-serial subcomponents.

c) Attacking while cloaked is currently a bug and some know how to get into that state.

d) BH TEF was not working as intended.

e) You have the balls to come here and accuse Jedi of being the only profession to level up faster by using respec? Do you have any idea how many people respeced into Investigation? Or into the Combat XP lines of other professions? This was not an exploit, btw - it was using a poorly designed system in an intended way. You were meant to be able to take a lot of lower level skill boxes to get higher level ones, but somebody apparently forgot to factor in box xp cost and xp type in the respec credit cost for boxes.

It is never an idea to accuse a whole group of people. Not all Jedi exploit, not all BHs exploit. By generalizing that way, you weaken your own points pretty fast.

Moreover, DO NOT CROSS POST THE SAME THREAD ON THE BH AND JEDI FORUMS. Posting this in the Jedi forums is just trolling and asking for flames. As I already said in your thread in the BH forum, you cannot expect to keep a Runner / Cloaker who spent 117 skill points on MEnh / Powers x4xx to build his template for escape from getting away if you have zero crowd control in your template. Not every BH template can kill every Jedi template.

Message Edited by Eskie on 07-22-2005 03:25 PM

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Eskie wrote:

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ShaikeRamjet wrote:
(...)But it's not about "keeping people below me" it's about keeping exploits from happening. And it just seems so funny how the majority of the exploits that are found are Jedi based... Wow. LOS on the Rryyat Trails, overloaded sabers (x2), attacking while cloaked, using a broken TEF in order to drop houses and hide in them, using macros in order to hit twice in one second, the respec exploit allowing you to train in low level skills and place them in the high level boxes bypassing the XP requirements... the list goes on and on.

The funny thing is... you guys try to justify it all. You all say that "Not everyone used that" blah blah blah.(...)

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Actually, this is not about you keeping exploits from happening, this is about you trying to nerf skills because some people exploited them or unintentionally got bugged while using them.

a) LoS on the Rryyat Trails is used by BHs and Jedi alike. Go to the BH forum and read the posts about walking off the trail to avoid aggro, go to the Jedi forums and read the posts about BHs happening to fight a full template down there running into the LoS spot to avoid being killed by the Jedi.

b) Overloaded sabers is exploited by Jedi. Double-slicing weapons was exploited by Smugglers, and BHs used those weapons. Same with non-serial subcomponents.

c) Attacking while cloaked is currently a bug and some know how to get into that state.

d) BH TEF was not working as intended.

e) You have the balls to come here and accuse Jedi of being the only profession to level up faster by using respec? Do you have any idea how many people respeced into Investigation? Or into the Combat XP lines of other professions? This was not an exploit, btw - it was using a poorly designed system in an intended way. You were meant to be able to take a lot of lower level skill boxes to get higher level ones, but somebody apparently forgot to factor in box xp cost and xp type in the respec credit cost for boxes.

It is never an idea to accuse a whole group of people. Not all Jedi exploit, not all BHs exploit. By generalizing that way, you weaken your own points pretty fast.

Moreover, DO NOT CROSS POST THE SAME THREAD ON THE BH AND JEDI FORUMS. Posting this in the Jedi forums is just trolling and asking for flames. As I already said in your thread in the BH forum, you cannot expect to keep a Runner / Cloaker who spent 117 skill points on MEnh / Powers x4xx to build his template for escape from getting away if you have zero crowd control in your template. Not every BH template can kill every Jedi template.

Message Edited by Eskie on 07-22-2005 03:25 PM

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well said.

I'm a Powers Jedi (master), and I love my cloak. I use it for sneak attack. I use it for escape and evasion. I use it for scouting for PvP. I use it for just exploring PvE. I use it OFTEN, and pretty much any way I possibly can. I stay cloaked most of the time I'm in game, and only uncloak when I need to do something. It fits me and my playstyle in so many ways. I like to stay out of sight. I like to explore. I like to hold the element of surprise. I like knowing I have a pretty reliable exit option from a fight.

For those who ask it to be moved to Master Powers, I'd say that'd really not going to change much. I'll still have it, and still continue to use it as such. When I'm jumped by a bounty hunter at the wrong time in the wrong place, I'll cloak and run, or use cloak to prepare and launch my own first-strike on him. When I'm 1v1 facing a FoTM MDef/MLS build in PvP and losing (which will mostly be the case), I'll root/kd/fr2/cloak my way to safety. When me an a couple of my buddies are hanging out cloaked waiting for some straggling lone SF player to wonder by, we'll uncloak and show him that real safety comes in numbers, not by looking at your radar and not seeing any red dots.

In the end, thats why folks want to nerf cloak. The want to nerf my playstyle. They don't want me to be able to play the game like that, being able to pick and choose when to fight and when to hide. Bounty Hunters want me to fight to the death, especially if its mine, even if I see it coming and have a chance to run. If I don't do that, if I run, if I hide someplace they can't get to me (like under cloak, or in my own house), then they'e going to yell and scream as loud and as often as they can to get the rules changed so that I can't run or hide any longer. Why? Because thats how they want to play the game: their marks shouldn't try to escape from them. And mark my words, if cloak gets nerfed, force run will be next. And then parwan. They already holler and scream about house-hiders and getting picked up in multiplayer vehicles. Nerfing cloak would be just the tip of the iceberg there.

The MLS/MDef Jedi crowd don't want me sneak-attacking or escaping, either. They've built their templates to be great toe-to-toe fighters, great duelists, capable of reliably killing someone like me who has chosen not to get a lot of Defender. So, naturally, skills like cloak which allow to engage in "non-dueling" sneak attacks or to disengage from fights I'm losing are "unfair" in their eyes because I'm playing in a way that they don't want to. I'm supposed to walk up to them, allow them time to get prepared, and then stay and fight to the death (which will usually be mine, since I've given up things like tanking in my template).

What's my point? Not everyone wants to play like you do. And asking for the rules/mechanics of the game to match your AND ONLY YOUR playstyle is pretty selfish, IMHO. You play your way, and I'll play mine. You have your MLS/MDef dueling template which can wipe the floor with my MPowers template, but I have the option to hide from you or sneak-attack you when you're in a bad spot. You have your droids and your ability to hunt/track/attack me and the ability to launch the first strike, but I have the option to hide from you and turn the tables if you can't get the job done fast enough.

Message Edited by FernGully on 07-22-2005 09:38 AM

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ShaikeRamjet wrote:

I can track my bounty and as soon as I attack from range, he cloaks and is gone. The jedi then can force regen, pop a bunch of food and hit his Booster Blue... and I no longer have first strike capabilities.

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FernGully wrote:
I'm a Powers Jedi (master), and I love my cloak. I use it for sneak attack. I use it for escape and evasion. I use it for scouting for PvP. I use it for just exploring PvE. I use it OFTEN, and pretty much any way I possibly can. I stay cloaked most of the time I'm in game, and only uncloak when I need to do something. It fits me and my playstyle in so many ways. I like to stay out of sight. I like to explore. I like to hold the element of surprise. I like knowing I have a pretty reliable exit option from a fight.

For those who ask it to be moved to Master Powers, I'd say that'd really not going to change much. I'll still have it, and still continue to use it as such. When I'm jumped by a bounty hunter at the wrong time in the wrong place, I'll cloak and run, or use cloak to prepare and launch my own first-strike on him. When I'm 1v1 facing a FoTM MDef/MLS build in PvP and losing (which will mostly be the case), I'll root/kd/fr2/cloak my way to safety. When me an a couple of my buddies are hanging out cloaked waiting for some straggling lone SF player to wonder by, we'll uncloak and show him that real safety comes in numbers, not by looking at your radar and not seeing any red dots.

In the end, thats why folks want to nerf cloak. The want to nerf my playstyle. They don't want me to be able to play the game like that, being able to pick and choose when to fight and when to hide. Bounty Hunters want me to fight to the death, especially if its mine, even if I see it coming and have a chance to run. If I don't do that, if I run, if I hide someplace they can't get to me (like under cloak, or in my own house), then they'e going to yell and scream as loud and as often as they can to get the rules changed so that I can't run or hide any longer. Why? Because thats how they want to play the game: their marks shouldn't try to escape from them. And mark my words, if cloak gets nerfed, force run will be next. And then parwan. They already holler and scream about house-hiders and getting picked up in multiplayer vehicles. Nerfing cloak would be just the tip of the iceberg there.

The MLS/MDef Jedi crowd don't want me sneak-attacking or escaping, either. They've built their templates to be great toe-to-toe fighters, great duelists, capable of reliably killing someone like me who has chosen not to get a lot of Defender. So, naturally, skills like cloak which allow to engage in "non-dueling" sneak attacks or to disengage from fights I'm losing are "unfair" in their eyes because I'm playing in a way that they don't want to. I'm supposed to walk up to them, allow them time to get prepared, and then stay and fight to the death (which will usually be mine, since I've given up things like tanking in my template).

What's my point? Not everyone wants to play like you do. And asking for the rules/mechanics of the game to match your AND ONLY YOUR playstyle is pretty selfish, IMHO. You play your way, and I'll play mine. You have your MLS/MDef dueling template which can wipe the floor with my MPowers template, but I have the option to hide from you or sneak-attack you when you're in a bad spot. You have your droids and your ability to hunt/track/attack me and the ability to launch the first strike, but I have the option to hide from you and turn the tables if you can't get the job done fast enough.

Message Edited by FernGully on 07-22-2005 09:38 AM

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Copy paste? I read that yesterday and still agree with it

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betenoir wrote:

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ShaikeRamjet wrote:

I can track my bounty and as soon as I attack from range, he cloaks and is gone. The jedi then can force regen, pop a bunch of food and hit his Booster Blue... and I no longer have first strike capabilities.

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I wonder if you and some of your fellow bounty hunters believe that it is a Jedi's duty to stand still, trade blows and die like good little sheep in a pen so you can collect your cash? What you want, are low level (80 is low these days) NPCs that hit for less than you do on average and give out 250 thousand credits apon death. To sum up, a punching dummy that spits out cash.

I have bad news friend. Some of us don't give a whit about PvP. We don't train for it, we don't get exhilerated by it. In essence, some of us avoid it. For me, cloak is my way of saying "You've wasted your time Bounty Hunter". You like your alpha strike? I like my veto powers. I like how you have lots of time to prepare, eating all your food, taking spice and getting mentally prepared. jedi get none of that, so I do appologize for the Jedi that attacked you with cloak up and I appologize to all the bounty hunters that enjoy the chalenge of a level playing field, but those that constantly look to insure that other professions fail based on being unprepared or uninformed are selfish and immature.

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You hit on a pretty good point here. Over the last several months, I've listened to the BH community consistently keep asking for any escape/evasion tactics by Jedi to be outlawed. OfferRide, house sitting, cloak, force run. Precisely those things that make us different from NPCs: our ability to choose NOT to fight, but to run/hide.

Sorry, I'm not an NPC. I bug out of fights I know I'm gonna lose. If thats what you want, someone to sit still till you kill em, go to a starport and do some dueling, or go take some NPC missions. They still payout pretty well.

Message Edited by FernGully on 07-22-2005 09:48 AM

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ShaikeRamjet wrote:

A cloaker should not be able to use any other force powers while cloaked, especially force regen. They can stay perpetually cloaked. The other night, I was in a PvP battle where a cloaked Jedi was using an exploit to attack me while cloaked. If he were not allowed to use any powers while cloaked, this exploit wouldn't happen.

As cloak is, it is way too overpowering. I can track my bounty and as soon as I attack from range, he cloaks and is gone. The jedi then can force regen, pop a bunch of food and hit his Booster Blue... and I no longer have first strike capabilities. It was stated by the devs that what makes a BH able to be 1vs1 with a full temp Jedi is our first strike capabilities. If that is taken away from us... then what do we have?

Bottom line is... a Jedi should not be able to use force powers while cloaked.

Flame away.

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Message Edited by Gamine0 on 07-22-2005 07:00 AM

*Cross posted, from the other exact same thread in Jedi forum*

I'm a Powers Jedi (master), and I love my cloak. I use it for sneak attack. I use it for escape and evasion. I use it for scouting for PvP. I use it for just exploring PvE. I use it OFTEN, and pretty much any way I possibly can. I stay cloaked most of the time I'm in game, and only uncloak when I need to do something. It fits me and my playstyle in so many ways. I like to stay out of sight. I like to explore. I like to hold the element of surprise. I like knowing I have a pretty reliable exit option from a fight.

For those who ask it to be moved to Master Powers, I'd say that'd really not going to change much. I'll still have it, and still continue to use it as such. When I'm jumped by a bounty hunter at the wrong time in the wrong place, I'll cloak and run, or use cloak to prepare and launch my own first-strike on him. When I'm 1v1 facing a FoTM MDef/MLS build in PvP and losing (which will mostly be the case), I'll root/kd/fr2/cloak my way to safety. When me an a couple of my buddies are hanging out cloaked waiting for some straggling lone SF player to wonder by, we'll uncloak and show him that real safety comes in numbers, not by looking at your radar and not seeing any red dots.

In the end, thats why folks want to nerf cloak. The want to nerf my playstyle. They don't want me to be able to play the game like that, being able to pick and choose when to fight and when to hide. Bounty Hunters want me to fight to the death, especially if its mine, even if I see it coming and have a chance to run. If I don't do that, if I run, if I hide someplace they can't get to me (like under cloak, or in my own house), then they'e going to yell and scream as loud and as often as they can to get the rules changed so that I can't run or hide any longer. Why? Because thats how they want to play the game: their marks shouldn't try to escape from them. And mark my words, if cloak gets nerfed, force run will be next. And then parwan. They already holler and scream about house-hiders and getting picked up in multiplayer vehicles. Nerfing cloak would be just the tip of the iceberg there.

The MLS/MDef Jedi crowd don't want me sneak-attacking or escaping, either. They've built their templates to be great toe-to-toe fighters, great duelists, capable of reliably killing someone like me who has chosen not to get a lot of Defender. So, naturally, skills like cloak which allow to engage in "non-dueling" sneak attacks or to disengage from fights I'm losing are "unfair" in their eyes because I'm playing in a way that they don't want to. I'm supposed to walk up to them, allow them time to get prepared, and then stay and fight to the death (which will usually be mine, since I've given up things like tanking in my template).

What's my point? Not everyone wants to play like you do. And asking for the rules/mechanics of the game to match your AND ONLY YOUR playstyle is pretty selfish, IMHO. You play your way, and I'll play mine. You have your MLS/MDef dueling template which can wipe the floor with my MPowers template, but I have the option to hide from you or sneak-attack you when you're in a bad spot. You have your droids and your ability to hunt/track/attack me and the ability to launch the first strike, but I have the option to hide from you and turn the tables if you can't get the job done fast enough.

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ShaikeRamjet wrote:

A cloaker should not be able to use any other force powers while cloaked, especially force regen. They can stay perpetually cloaked. The other night, I was in a PvP battle where a cloaked Jedi was using an exploit to attack me while cloaked. If he were not allowed to use any powers while cloaked, this exploit wouldn't happen.

As cloak is, it is way too overpowering. I can track my bounty and as soon as I attack from range, he cloaks and is gone. The jedi then can force regen, pop a bunch of food and hit his Booster Blue... and I no longer have first strike capabilities. It was stated by the devs that what makes a BH able to be 1vs1 with a full temp Jedi is our first strike capabilities. If that is taken away from us... then what do we have?

Bottom line is... a Jedi should not be able to use force powers while cloaked.

Flame away.

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i dnt understand what you mean ...

if you hit the jedi & he goes cloak to regen & eat food before uncloak & attack you that means that means that you get the first strike then he cloak to use food & when he uncloak he gets the second strike

i see np with this except reading another bh whinning in the jedi forum

Another thing for you to think about...

What's left in the Jedi Professions that truely seperates us from normal professions? Healing is certainly no better. Damage dealing is certainly no better. Defenders have some truely great tanking, but its really not significantly different than what a TKM has. Skills like Stasis, Choke, and Adv Saber throw are great, but they're nothing that can't be found in the regular prof trees. Even a skill as amazing as self-rez with Regain Consciousness is easily replaced by a quest item.

What's left that truely seperates and defines Jedi? What do we have that other professions don't? Our ability to run, to hide, and to mount a last stand. Cloak, Avoid Incap, and Force Run. Thats it. Thats what sets up apart.

Is it any wonder that non-jedi want to take those away, too?

The surpisinng thing to me, tho, is that some Jedi want to help them do it.

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Tripbacca wrote:
Pfeh true there are ways around it... true its not an I win button. But cloaking is a cowardly way to play I would just drop a mission on a cloaking jedi and not bother... go searching for a jedi with the confidence to stand toe to toe.

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If cloaking is cowardly way to play then healing is as well.

However, being able to attack while cloaked is a bug that need to be fixed.

Question is however if healing/force channel/meditate should break cloak or not. If it is possible to meditate/channel and keep up cloak at same time even with several people around you is possible without loosing force I can understand the concerns about it.

I dont know if there is an exploit but I certainly know there is a bug where it does not always decloak you when you initiate an attack. I don't know if you can purposely create that. I have cloak and attacked an overt on Kashyyyk once and it did not decloak me. I stopped the attack and left. It would hardly be fair to fight someone when they can't target you to fight back.

I tend to agree that cloak should be in the master box.