Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: last ditch being used as a first strike -exploit-
Dlek_Krego
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:28 am
#79
RebsBeware wrote:Jedi Knight is supposed to be harder, and not just a semi afk level grinding treadmill. Last ditch is a perfectly legitimate attack, not a bug. Ever think that maybe the guy genuinely had agro from the spiders, and used his LD as just that, a Last Ditch to take his mark before he got dropped? Unlikely, but possible.Having no line of sight to someone that is stood in the open 3 meters away from me does not seem so explainable. You called the LOS trick for what it is, a bug. Not an attack used cleverly, a bug. And you knowingly use this bug. Thats the definition of an exploit. Hence you should account ban yourself.I dont need to deal with anything, I kill jedi on the trail nightly. And as mentioned, I've been a bh since pre player jedi. I've spent a long time sat outside houses, bases, and a million other places to get my mark. One shot kills are not to be expected, but if you can get them, why not? Btw, i also solo full temp JK, post CU. I know how hard it can be to kill a jedi, and also how easy if you use your head.Think yourself lucky perma death isnt still in place.
for how many months did the BH community cry about Jedi using Feign Death before it was nerfed? It was a perfectly legitimate skill, but you all scream to high heavens if used against you... so now expect the same in return.
Sad thing is.. I pity the Smugglar profession. They are hit with nerfs harder as a result of the Jedi/BH conflict than Jedi and BH put together.
Dlek_Krego
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:32 am
#80
Eskie wrote:
SolarusArc wrote:
Show me in writing on a page endorsed by a Dev from SOE that one shot kills are exploits?
Eskie wrote:
SolarusArc wrote:
I already made my point furhter up in this thread - one-shot incaps are not intended post-CU as stated by the devs in the published CU design documents, and LD if used as a first strike by a BH can be a one-hit incap.
Since one-hit incaps are not intended and LD is a one-hit incap as described in this thread, it is a bug.
So by using it, a BH is using a bug to gain an advantage over another player, which is the definition of exploit.
It does not matter if the smuggler has a chance to fail - trying to exploit and failing in the process does not legalize an exploit.
And just to clear things up:
I think LD is working as intended.
I think critters / NPCs damage players is working as intended.
I think insta-incaps by slapping stormies is working as intended.
The only point I am making is that using LD as a first strike on another player with no TEF on the one using LD is a bug. I am not saying LD needs a nerf, I am saying the combination of attacking A to get low health and using LD on B afterwards needs to be fixed.
This issue is of no concern to pure smugglers as far as I can tell, it is only of concern to BHs who can picked up LD and use it as a first strike - BH vs. Jedi is the only scenario in which LD can be used as a first strike.
I'll give you that pulling out your stormie and slapping him before taking on a jedi is not working as intended but you can't be serious that going after a Jedi on the trails, getting aggroed (which you can never prove was done on purpose, you can get aggroed down there just by looking funny at a spider or Ferrel Wookiee) and using lastditch is an exploit.
Taken from the Combat Upgrade Overview:
(...)
- Single shot PvP kills of unwounded characters is never possible
(...)
thank you! QFE!!!!!
RebsBeware
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:33 am
#81
I never cried about FD. I black barred the jedi with fire pikes all over, then left. Then brought in my second account, also a BH, other faction, with medic. healed a few wounds on the jedi, they got up out of FD thinking I was a friend, I killed them with that char instead. Please post any further whines on the Jedi Whine boards.
SolarusArc
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:34 am
#82
Eskie wrote:
Taken from the Combat Upgrade Overview:
(...)
- Single shot PvP kills of unwounded characters is never possible
(...)
Heres the story.
Im grinding in theryyatt trail. A bh comes. I know this bh because i escaped her/him as a lower level paddy before in the myydril caves with the crystal you get from a quest down there.
So i stop attacking wookies and stand away to prepare for a fight. This bh < jadelance > runs off of the first bridge with mobs close behind her/him. Runs past and runs accross the other bridge out of my sight. She/he then comes back and hits me for 4632damage <1 shot incap>.She got close to being incapped by the mob and then use last ditch shot on me AS A FIRST STRIKE. She did not get incapped in the process. Doesnt last ditch incap both players?This is what someone else has said, and yes, i checked the combat log. <4632 damage>. A shot this powerful should not be used as a first strike attack on a bh's mark. This gives jedi no chance to react at all. So i say,the ability for bh's to use this as a initiating attack is a exploit and needs to be fixed. Flame away if you must.
Here's the problem, your boy here was attacking Wookiees at the time, he probably wasn't 100%. Also, he had a reasonable chance to block the shot, he had his light saber out, he was PREPARING for a fight. Sorry, your argument doesn't hold water. This was a good tactic, a very risky one but a good one. And furthermore, it's not a singleshot PVP kill, you still need to provide the final shot at the DB. Like I said, I've seen plenty of rifleman get a single shot incapp using snipershot. Nobody is calling that an exploit or foul play.
DigitalSpider
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:34 am
#83
Last Ditch
Working as intended.
Its not an exploit to use last ditch in that manner. Now pulling out a faction pet and slap it? Probably.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jedi running into houses while TEFed is a bug and when used to regen force etc is an exploit.
Jedi running into a house not having attack the BH back is not a bug or exploit. you have to Attack to get the TEF.
Jedi using the LOS bug on the Trails to avoid incap, regen force, regen health, avoid DB or combat is an exploit.
BH doing any of the above are exploiting as well.
Working as intended.
Its not an exploit to use last ditch in that manner. Now pulling out a faction pet and slap it? Probably.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jedi running into houses while TEFed is a bug and when used to regen force etc is an exploit.
Jedi running into a house not having attack the BH back is not a bug or exploit. you have to Attack to get the TEF.
Jedi using the LOS bug on the Trails to avoid incap, regen force, regen health, avoid DB or combat is an exploit.
BH doing any of the above are exploiting as well.
Darth_Blade
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:36 am
#84
A bounty hunter will use all his tactics to his advantage, get over it. This time it worked, next time it may not... Not an exploit, a lucky chance of fate. Next time don't wait for him to come after you (easy target).
Game on...
RebsBeware
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:37 am
#85
Oh, and the combat overview refers to PvP, as you rightly quote. This is hunting, not PvP. You ever hear of a hitman taking thirty shots to kill his mark?
Even JFK took less than that.
SolarusArc
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:38 am
#86
There is a huge price to pay when you miss with it. You have no stats, you are easy prey.
WookieOgre wrote:
Ok, to all the Jedi it's not an exploit. This is coming from a Jedi Knight (by title now only lol). The devs have said this skill is working as intended.
As always the problem lies within Jedi & BH missions specifically since it's a 1vsBH(s) affair. Having first strike in this instance makes the skill overpowered, you are very correct. In normal PvP the player would be instantly red and any moron doing this would get d/b rather quickly.
Now there is no easy solution to this since on the one hand you have a legit tactic in regular PvP but it can be grossly abused in Jedi hunts. I don't think it will ever be nerfed because it does work as its supposed to. What I do think should happen since BH's seem to want to abuse it (and funny enough call it tactics rofl), there should be a huge price to pay when it does fail and the BH is d/b. Right now a Master Smuggler BH has a 50% chance to kill Jedi at will with absoutely no PvP skills what so ever (no armor, no food, NOTHING is required except a gun and Smuggler skills), that has to come with consequences.
BH's using the excuses such as "the BH just used superior tactics" or "stay off the terms" is about as stupid as saying the special is an exploit.
Illyaz
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:40 am
#87
There are more threads about people whinning and complainingthen there are about anything else...I know the Devs probaly feel like babysitters.
Dlek_Krego
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:42 am
#88
RebsBeware wrote:
Please post any further whines on the Jedi Whine boards.
The good thing about public boards is that punks like yourself do not get to tell me where to post or how to post it.
Eskie
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:42 am
#89
SolarusArc wrote:
Eskie wrote:
Taken from the Combat Upgrade Overview:
(...)
- Single shot PvP kills of unwounded characters is never possible
(...)
Heres the story.Im grinding in the ryyatt trail. A bh comes. I know this bh because i escaped her/him as a lower level paddy before in the myydril caves with the crystal you get from a quest down there.So i stop attacking wookies and stand away to prepare for a fight. This bh < jadelance > runs off of the first bridge with mobs close behind her/him. Runs past and runs accross the other bridge out of my sight. She/he then comes back and hits me for 4632damage <1 shot incap>. She got close to being incapped by the mob and then use last ditch shot on me AS A FIRST STRIKE. She did not get incapped in the process. Doesnt last ditch incap both players? This is what someone else has said, and yes, i checked the combat log. <4632 damage>. A shot this powerful should not be used as a first strike attack on a bh's mark. This gives jedi no chance to react at all. So i say, the ability for bh's to use this as a initiating attack is a exploit and needs to be fixed. Flame away if you must.Here's the problem, your boy here was attacking Wookiees at the time, he probably wasn't 100%. Also, he had a reasonable chance to block the shot, he had his light saber out, he was PREPARING for a fight. Sorry, your argument doesn't hold water. This was a good tactic, a very risky one but a good one. And furthermore, it's not a singleshot PVP kill, you still need to provide the final shot at the DB. Like I said, I've seen plenty of rifleman get a single shot incapp using snipershot. Nobody is calling that an exploit or foul play.
It really doesnt matter if he was at full health or not - that shot hit for more than 4.6k after resists, which is an insta-incap of a lvl 80 at full health, and it was the first shot in a PvP fight. I showed you the dev comment stating this should not be possible, so this happening has to be a bug, and if used on purpose it is an exploit. No matter how high the chance to fail is - everybody using a Last Ditch as a first strike while having low health is trying to use this bug to get an advantage over somebody else. Thats all I need to prove this being an exploit.
Dlek_Krego
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:45 am
#90
RebsBeware wrote:Oh, and the combat overview refers to PvP, as you rightly quote. This is hunting, not PvP. You ever hear of a hitman taking thirty shots to kill his mark?
Even JFK took less than that.
Hunting is when you, as a PC, meaning a PLAYER CHARACTER (following me so far here? Good...I know you're slow, but try to keep up) goes after a NPC, or NON-PLAYER CHARACTER...
soooo (still with me here?)... Bounty Hunter = PC, and Jedi = PC.... so that is PVP when they fight...
Message Edited by Dlek_Krego on 06-30-2005 06:45 AM
Eskie
Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:45 am
#91
RebsBeware wrote:Oh, and the combat overview refers to PvP, as you rightly quote. This is hunting, not PvP. You ever hear of a hitman taking thirty shots to kill his mark?
Even JFK took less than that.
You are kidding, right? You (a player) are attacking another player - PvP.