Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Why we need to get rid of XP loss. Ideas for the developers of SWG. (Tanks please read)
When my BH can use Force Run, buff and heal himself, and use a lightsaber... maybe then you'll have a point. The penalties for Jedi are because of the additional power they have - and don't try to convince me that they dont - that's why you PLAY a Jedi. It's certainly not about playing a role for you...
LGandalf wrote:
Mhm. Sure, I agree and support fully. But only when there is permadeath for BH, including all items loss from all chars and stuff.
Shaan'ti Hokai (Kauri) 
Hachidai wrote:
I wouldfully support the re-introduction of a well thought out FRS, whether that means the jedi are perma-overt as previously , or whether they become aligned with an enclave (ie light/dark) not involving the GCW at all - a much better option in my opinion. But, if killed by a BH, they lose FRS points rather than xp. It's still a similar principle of risk/reward and loss/gain, without the need for a Jedi to go and waste RL time re-grinding xp (which is where the tension comes from - not every gamer has hours to play re-grinding). Sure they lose FRS points, but they can regain this in 'fun' activities, like PvP. (if they don't likePvP then they shouldn't play a jedi in the first place..)
TonieStark wrote:
XP lossdoes nothing to control Jedi population, nothing. Zero, zip, nadda. Just in case you scanned the post and did not read it:
I suggest, then, that you increase XP loss until it DOES tend to control the Jedi population. Your method would make people want to be Jedi. I prefer they all disappear.
TashunkaSapa wrote:
There are two simple things that would control the Jedi population, encourage Jedi to avoid visibility and behave as Jedi should in the timeline, and do away with xp loss entirely.
Those two things are Permadeath and Saber TEF. Despite the thousands of hologrinders, when we had these things the Jedi population was small and discreet.
Jedi got XP loss implemented because basically, they asked for it. They didn't like the penalties they had, so they asked for a new one.
word ,
i am a knight from back in the day man and every day i wish it was like the way it was you didnt see jedi dueling in cnet pre pub 8 , and when you did see jedi you didnt know it unless you knew who they were , and when you showed up to a pvp base take down you were more worried about the riflemen/cm's and the fencer/tkm's than nething else and if a jedi did show you all ran or got huge nuts and faught it out ....... those were the days when jedi were jedi
i vote bring back saber tef and permadeath i would love it ... it would get rid of these idiot 12 year olds on their ebay accounts that mommy bought them for christmas plus it would be beneficial to my bh more free kills lol
senag2 wrote:
At 150 Kills you get an ADK kit.
I would LOVE to kiss the ar**se of the BH who manages to do that in the current system before the end of the millenium. If things remain as they are now I think you should get 5 ADK's, an 8000 protection supa dupa armor, a weapon that does 3456 max dam and hits twice per second, a Medal of Kick Ar**se Badda, Pamela Andersson's exotic underwear and free subscription to all of SOE's MMORPGs (although I could do without this).
umm, i could do it in 2 months, maybe 3
TonieStark wrote:
Even if XP loss remains , there are still better in game mechanics that we can use for negative impact vs. reward based system. I encourage you all to post your ideas.
The reason that XP loss was first introduced was so that a BH friend and a Jedi friend could not simply DB without any consequence allowing them both to cheat the game and rake in credits. Jedi names are no longer part of the bounty hunter terminals. This allows us an opportunity to step back and to re- examine XP loss. These are the things that XP loss accomplishes or does not accomplish in the current game structure:
It does not control Jedi population
It causes tension well beyond the tension required to play a fun game.
It causes Jedi to simply not to want to engage in battle. This happens with all levels of Jedi, from Knights to Padawans.
Here are my suggestions to get rid of XP loss and introduce a new system of play (these suggestions assume that the payouts stay exactly the same along with decay at DB, player rating etc). The game would keep track of BH kills and Jedi kills against BH. Have a reward system set up that allows different rewards as both BH and Jedi climb up the kill ladder.
As an example (these are only examples to give a general idea, this can be worked on and would be what we would call at work "an implementation detail" so don't get hung up on what I am actually writing, it's an example):
At 25 kills you get a badge.
At 50 Kills you get a medal (ring, necklace) that will give you a combat benefit.
At 75 Kills you get a unique cool item of clothing for your respective class that has some combat benefit.
At 100 kills you get a unique color for a vehicle or mount, identifying you as one of the best on server.
At 150 Kills you get an ADK kit.
Etc...
Why not stay and fight and get better? This "reward" system will also systematically keeps track of all kills (which is something that this game is begging for). Losses don't count against you, encouraging more play. It is my opinion that XP loss causes nothing positive. A Jedi can go back and grind it in a couple of hours, in the end all that happened was that the Jedi ran into his house and lost two hours anyway and the BH leaves frustrated.
In my scenario they both fight to the finish and have fun. Which is what playing is all about right?
Message Edited by TonieStark on 09-04-200510:46 PM
Message Edited by TonieStark on 09-04-2005 10:46 PM
i think this proposed system isnt really that great ... i think most jedi have much better records than BH and all this is really doing is giving more advantages to going jedi
In response to getting rid of the XP loss: Don't! Instead, make the XP loss work both ways. (Let me explain before the FlameFest begins). You cannot implement XP loss for Bounty Hunters while they are already at the disadvantage that currently exists. While at the same time, you can't completely take away that disadvantage. (I said completely...)
A possible (I say again possible) solution 'could' be to make the BH Profession an Alpha class instead of an Elite class. Don't make them as powerful as the Jedi but DO make them stronger than the other Elite Professions. Create multiple Bounty Hunter Templates like the Jedi Profession has, and make the grind to these new templates harder and longer, similar to the jedi grind that currently exists. Give the BH's multiple options and/or skills to choose from that sets them apart from the other Elite professions while still keeping the Jedi as the more powerful profession. REMEMBER: The key is to NOT make the Bounty Hunters as powerful as the Jedi, but to set them apart from the other Professions.
The Bounty Hunter and Jedi Professions are arguably the most popular professions in SWG, so why not place them both above the other classes and make them both harder to achieve. Doing so would create more interest for the players by granting more options, quests, and challenges (due in part to the increased grind to become an Alpha Bounty Hunter).
I am by no means saying that Bounty Hunters should be just as powerful as the Jedi. Quite the opposite in fact. The Jedi should remain the more powerful of the two, it helps add challenge and excitment. Hunting down and defeating a foe that is stronger and more powerful than yourself, thats part of the fun of being a Bounty Hunter.
That being said, lets expand a little further:
Many of the players that I know have stated that the main reason they started 'down the path of the Jedi' in the first place was to 'unlock' their alt character. And once this was accomplished they figured "might as well continue to grind towards jedi since I've already gone this far". I for one have never had the overwelming desire or intention to become a Jedi (light or dark). The only reason I am doing so is that it's the only way to 'unlock' my alt character.
A possible (and I say again possible) solution 'could' be to change the way alternate characters are 'unlocked'. By making it possible to 'unlock' an alt character by achieving either Alpha class (Jedi or Bounty Hunter), you now give players even more options in character progression instead of ultimatly forcing them to choose one profession just to have an alternate character on the same server/galaxy.
Now this would not by itself be 'THE' or even 'A' way to control the Jedi population. At this point I personally don't feel the Jedi population can be controlled in a way that many would prefer or accept. What it may do is prevent the creation of new Jedi characters (that only become Jedi simply because they wanted an alt character to begin with) by granting the players another choice. Wanting an alternate character should not be a reason why a player chooses to become a Jedi.
- Draco' Stygian
Error 406: file corrupt: config.earth -- Reboot Universe? (Y/N)
Tanks wrote:
TonieStark wrote:
...
The reason that XP loss was first introduced was so that a BH friend and a Jedi friend could not simply DB without any consequence allowing them both to cheat the game and rake in credits. Jedi names are no longer part of the bounty hunter terminals. This allows us an opportunity to step back and to re- examine XP loss. ....
...At 150 Kills you get an ADK kit.
It would take less time to sit at a BH terminal, in a PC city, with a Jedi friend and get missions tabbing to see if he is your mission than the time it takes to launch an Arkayd.
There would bemany people that would do this to get the money and ADK.
Message Edited by Skare99 on 09-05-2005 05:48 PM
TashunkaSapa wrote:
Works for me. Jedi should be more powerful than any other class - and that power should be balanced by equivalent risks and drawbacks.
Right now, they may not be as powerful, but the one drawback is really not a significant one, and becomes meaningless once fully templated.
It don't matter because it was like this pre pub 9. But Jedi still moaned and cried so the developers gave in.
TonieStark wrote:
Even if XP loss remains , there are still better in game mechanics that we can use for negative impact vs. reward based system. I encourage you all to post your ideas.
The reason that XP loss was first introduced was so that a BH friend and a Jedi friend could not simply DB without any consequence allowing them both to cheat the game and rake in credits. Jedi names are no longer part of the bounty hunter terminals. This allows us an opportunity to step back and to re- examine XP loss. These are the things that XP loss accomplishes or does not accomplish in the current game structure:
It does not control Jedi population
It causes tension well beyond the tension required to play a fun game.
It causes Jedi to simply not to want to engage in battle. This happens with all levels of Jedi, from Knights to Padawans.
Here are my suggestions to get rid of XP loss and introduce a new system of play (these suggestions assume that the payouts stay exactly the same along with decay at DB, player rating etc). The game would keep track of BH kills and Jedi kills against BH. Have a reward system set up that allows different rewards as both BH and Jedi climb up the kill ladder.
As an example (these are only examples to give a general idea, this can be worked on and would be what we would call at work "an implementation detail" so don't get hung up on what I am actually writing, it's an example):
At 25 kills you get a badge.
At 50 Kills you get a medal (ring, necklace) that will give you a combat benefit.
At 75 Kills you get a unique cool item of clothing for your respective class that has some combat benefit.
At 100 kills you get a unique color for a vehicle or mount, identifying you as one of the best on server.
At 150 Kills you get an ADK kit.
Etc...
Why not stay and fight and get better? This "reward" system will also systematically keeps track of all kills (which is something that this game is begging for). Losses don't count against you, encouraging more play. It is my opinion that XP loss causes nothing positive. A Jedi can go back and grind it in a couple of hours, in the end all that happened was that the Jedi ran into his house and lost two hours anyway and the BH leaves frustrated.
In my scenario they both fight to the finish and have fun. Which is what playing is all about right?
Message Edited by Grimjakk on 09-05-2005 06:23 PM