Bounty Hunter Archive

Thread: Why we need to get rid of XP loss. Ideas for the developers of SWG. (Tanks please read)

Ekwalizer
Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:31 pm
#79




TonieStark wrote:



Even if XP loss remains , there are still better in game mechanics that we can use for negative impact vs. reward based system. I encourage you all to post your ideas.


The reason that XP loss was first introduced was so that a BH friend and a Jedi friend could not simply DB without any consequence allowing them both to cheat the game and rake in credits. Jedi names are no longer part of the bounty hunter terminals. This allows us an opportunity to step back and to re- examine XP loss. These are the things that XP loss accomplishes or does not accomplish in the current game structure:

It does not control Jedi population


It causes tension well beyond the tension required to play a fun game.


It causes Jedi to simply not to want to engage in battle. This happens with all levels of Jedi, from Knights to Padawans.


Here are my suggestions to get rid of XP loss and introduce a new system of play (these suggestions assume that the payouts stay exactly the same along with decay at DB, player rating etc). The game would keep track of BH kills and Jedi kills against BH. Have a reward system set up that allows different rewards as both BH and Jedi climb up the kill ladder.
As an example (these are only examples to give a general idea, this can be worked on and would be what we would call at work "an implementation detail" so don't get hung up on what I am actually writing, it's an example):
At 25 kills you get a badge.
At 50 Kills you get a medal (ring, necklace) that will give you a combat benefit.
At 75 Kills you get a unique cool item of clothing for your respective class that has some combat benefit.
At 100 kills you get a unique color for a vehicle or mount, identifying you as one of the best on server.
At 150 Kills you get an ADK kit.

Etc...


Why not stay and fight and get better? This "reward" system will also systematically keeps track of all kills (which is something that this game is begging for). Losses don't count against you, encouraging more play. It is my opinion that XP loss causes nothing positive. A Jedi can go back and grind it in a couple of hours, in the end all that happened was that the Jedi ran into his house and lost two hours anyway and the BH leaves frustrated.

In my scenario they both fight to the finish and have fun. Which is what playing is all about right?


Message Edited by TonieStark on 09-04-200510:46 PM


Message Edited by TonieStark on 09-04-2005 10:46 PM



Ok, I'm going to jump in on this late, I didn't read much past the second page of posts, so all fo this may have been addressed before.


I agree with Tonie that a better mechaninc needs to be introduced. Furthermore I wholeheartedly agree that the current xp loss really has no "population controlling effect". Which leads Jedi to no longer fear Bounty Hunters. Not bashing the AoE spin groups, but the xp I get in them (as a non-Jedi) is sickening. If Jedi is 1/10th of what I get then they are making out like fat-rats.


PermaDeath isn't coming back fellas, no matter how much we want it to. The only way to make the xp penalty work is to remove an entire tree ... which ain't gonna happen.


I would recommend having an Elite BH profession, we'll call it a Super Bounty Hunter for the sake of this post,set up much akin to the current Jedi process. This would mean that MBH could no longer hunt Jedi, but you would have to be MBH to be eligible for the new Super BH profession (or whatever it is called). I saw a link to this idea somewhere on the forums before. What was proposed was a little overpowered I think, but ultimately doable.


We wouldn't need many more shots or abilities, just maybe some more accuracy and defense. Throw in the occassional elite shot variation of current BH shot, include some sort of root. As you would have to carry MBH to hold this profession which costs 121 to achieve, you'd have a limited pool of skill points remaining, after the 63 points (minimum) for for MSBH. Have it includea medic line (as Investigation is covered under BH) derived from Ranged Healing. Let's face it, most of us do not survive without some medical ability. This cuts out the need for CM4000 and places it in the MSBH profession, just as Jedi have a healing Discipline.


Now, you do all this then implement a new hunting plan where only a MSBH can go after Jedi. Once you get all that in order design a system of ranking, neither FRS or PvP points as we know it matter, but more of a Apprehension based thingie. Let's use Tonie as an example because He has quite a few Jedi kills under his belt, his Apprehension would be significantly higher than my MBH, so his Apprehension would grant him certain combat buffs once battle with the Jedi was initiated.


But wait, it works both ways, the Jedi's Elusive rating is based on the amount of times he has successfully defeated a MSBH. Note: Cloak/Run does not count as a defeat against the MSBH or as a win for the Jedi.

So, the game makes an opposed check against both players respective rating, if their ratings are neck in neck then the Jedi's Elusiveness cancels out the MSBHs Apprehension and vice versa or at least degrades it, thereby affecting what buffs each player gets.


If it is a clear landslide in difference, ie Tonie gets the mission for a brand new Jedi 5 minutes after they finish their fight with Machevellie or whatever that dude's name is, the Tonie's Apprehension buffs clearly overpower the New Jedi's Elusive buffs and the Jedi should fall in short order.


But, now if we are talking about an experienced BH slayer, then obviously the same applies in reverse and the Jedi would receive more buffs than the MSBH leaning the fight in favor of the Jedi.


Allof the odds could obviously be overcame, through thoughtful PvP and experienced PvPers.


Now let;s look into Risk vs Reward.


Upon Death:

Jedi is slain: Replica of their Lightsaber appears in the MSBHs inventory; this will be pretty generic. Random spawn of single or double hilt LS with the Jedi's name, so the MSBH can display it proudly in his home.

MSBH is slain: Replica of either a BH helmet (ala Jango vs Mace) or a replica of a Hi Cap Scatter. Same as above, has the MSBHs name on it so the Jedi can display it proudly in his home.


Monetary Gain:

MSBH: Payouts remain roughly the same for MSBHs scoring a victory, since that part of the game is currently working.

Jedi: Jedi gets a payment similar to what the BH would have recieved, game determines (based on faction) who the payer is.

Ie if the MSBH has a ton of Jabba faction, but is in the hole on FP with Lady Valarian then Lady Valairian pays the Jedi ... if not then just use GCW factions.


XP loss:

Get rid of it, or make it painful on both sides. As it stands right now, Jedi do not fear losing xp. It's just a pain in the a$$ to repeat the previous two hours of grinding.


Also, if a Apprehension vs Elusiveness system were to be put into place vice XP loss, this might encourage Jedi to stay and fight, as they aren't going to lose xp, stand to gain a BH Helment/Pistol and gain Elusive ranking thereby enhancing their chances during their next encounter.


Anyway, just an Idea.




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Aeschyl
Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:39 pm
#80




Ztark wrote:
I didn't read all the posts here, but I wish they would re-add the "Death Count" system back in...That was so great, and it made it so jedi wouldn't want to play if they got killed(By anything!), unless they didn't mind risking skill boxes. /shrug




/agree
Aeschyl
Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:37 am
#81




Qwad wrote:




Aeschyl wrote:





Qwad wrote:
So what exactly does XP loss do other than breed hatred between BH/Jedi? Can anyone answer that? And don't feed me the whole "population control BS". It doesn't control anything.




it makes the jedi class "unique" - and a "challenge" - they way it's supposed to be


it wouldnt breed hatred if jedi still lost xp upon cloning - if it were how it used to be - how it's supposed to be


but if they brought back perma death, they could do away with xp loss all together for all i care


and yes, bringing back cloning xp loss would make even full template jedi less rare (to a degree) - because if they lost xp everytime they died...soon they'd be in the millions of negative xp, and if they every wanted to change their template, they would have a LONG grind ahead of them


and if perma death was brought back, jedi would truely return to the scarcity they once were, and should be

Message Edited by Aeschyl on 09-05-2005 12:36 PM





That would still breed hatred.




so? - that is where your personal attitude and combat demeanor comes in


i've killed 400+ jedi on my server...over 250 DIFFERENT jedi


you'd be hard pressed to find 5 jedi on my server that actually despise me


lifeisdeath
Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:31 pm
#82

Sundal wrote:

lifeisdeath wrote:
how many people picked up the box and played without even being able to play jedi? how long until the jedi disease infected the universe?


That was a long time ago.

SWG is dying, the new players that are coming in are only coming in because of EP3 and the lure of being a Jedi.

You need to take a step back and look outside the box. You kill the jedi off, or even make it remotely harder then it is... and people will cancel. People cancel and SWG will die. Take a look at the recent publish with the group xp change. See how many people quit?

From a business stand point, the Jedi's are the core and new image of SWG. Posts about "perma-death" are not going to happen.





what does having to be a long time ago have to do with anything. MANY people were attracted to the game without the lure of being a jedi. and most people would agree that it was alot more fun back then.

new people are only coming in because of EP3 and jedi? where is the data to support this statement? since the only reason people play is to apparently be jedi then why not make it a jedi only game? no need for crafters, docs, entertainers... oh yeah, maybe because it would suck.

"take a step back and look outside the box"? do you even know what that means? so the only thing keeping SWG alive right now is jedi? then the game is already dead.

"Take a look at the recent publish with the group xp change. See how many people quit?"
no, but see how many people SAY they quit, yet continue playing? probably 90% of them.

and sorry to say, but jedi are NOT the core of the game. they are the scourge of the game for sure, but far from the core.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jedi; you want respect, but you haven't done a thing to earn it.
Neekocha
Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:53 am
#83





TonieStark wrote:




Tanks wrote:




TonieStark wrote:



...


The reason that XP loss was first introduced was so that a BH friend and a Jedi friend could not simply DB without any consequence allowing them both to cheat the game and rake in credits. Jedi names are no longer part of the bounty hunter terminals. This allows us an opportunity to step back and to re- examine XP loss. ....


...At 150 Kills you get an ADK kit.



It would take less time to sit at a BH terminal, in a PC city, with a Jedi friend and get missions tabbing to see if he is your mission than the time it takes to launch an Arkayd.


There would bemany people that would do this to get the money and ADK.






Tanks your getting hung up on an "implementation deatail". How about if money and ADKs are not invovled?




Money not involved in missions ? And what are we working for then ? Jars of foraged bugs ?


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