Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: An in-depth weapon comparison (New! Improved! Now with 87% fewer flawed assumptions!)
A post for the Annels of Time! /cheer
So do i want a Volsted raiting that is higher? I am confusded on that part, and the coresponding numbers that follow*
*Disclaimer: My computers calculator is my light in the darkness that is mathmatics 
WayneInAustin wrote:
I only hope the devs don't look at this and say "See, we told you your T21 is fine the way it is!".
Well, that was one of the purposes of this exercise. To see if our weapons really are as bad as we think.
Aside from the low Volsted Rating for Mind, I think it shows that the T21 holds up pretty well, all things considered.
On the other hand, it DOES show that some of our weapons are simply ludicrous. The SWG in particular is an fairly worthless weapon.
It also shows something that we've been saying all along: Our Mind costs for our specials are severe, much moreso than for other weapon types. I mean, two of our rifles have Volsted Mind Ratings below 1.0. We're the only weapon class that gets that particular burden. That's just nuts.
WayneInAustin wrote:
And I guess my DLT20a didn't even rate, huh?
Wasn't on the stock list I used. However, the tools are there for you to rate your own weapons. The point of the exercise was not to provide the definitive weapon comparison for all time. It was more to provide tools to allow you to compare your own weapons, on your own servers, and make informed choices.
Okay So, my next question was. Okay know this is great. But since the "speed" modifiers are static we can calculate when we hit the "max" firing rate of our weapons at each level of the BH Tree.
Here are my findings:
Novice BH's have +35 Speed Skill modifiers.
Level IBH's have +45
Level II have +55
Level III have +75
Level IV have +85
Here is the break down on the Speeds maxout on each skill box.
Novice = < 1.53------- 1 = [ BWS * (1 - 35/100) ]
Level I = < 1.81 -------- 1 = [ BWS * (1 - 45/100) ]
Level II = < 2.2 --------- 1 = [ BWS * (1 - 55/100) ]
Level III = < 4.0 --------- 1 = [ BWS * (1 - 75/100) ]
Level IV = < 6.6 --------- 1 = [ BWS * (1 - 85/100) ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So essentially you are firing as fast as possible below the listed speeds based on your Level within the BH tree.
PLEASE NOTE this is not same for LLC. LLC Below: * Will only show the possible limits (
Novice = < 1.1
Level I
Level II
Level III = < 2. 0 ---------- 1 = [ BWS * (1 - 50/100) ]
Level IV = < 2.5 ----------- 1 = [ BWS * (1 - 60/100) ]
WayneInAustin wrote:
SocialConformer...
See if this makes it any easier to understand: "One of two weapons may have more damage than the other, but have a worse effectiveness rating because it is significantly slower. Once it's speed catches up with the other weapon, it's effectiveness rating will equal or surpass the other weapon."
Yeah, I think that's what I eneded up getting out of it, but there should be an easier way to write it.
I'm just not a skilled writer in the morning.
WayneInAustin wrote:
I have the advantage of two cups of coffee already.
I'm not in the habit of drinking coffee, and I hope I never have to rely on it.
But I'm starting to rethink things. (takes a while)
I bet I'll be fully awake before I come to the conclusion that I should drink more coffee 
SocialConformer wrote:
And this is where my understanding is under assault: I can't tell if you mean to simply say that Weapon 2, although it has a lousy effectiveness rating before speed modifiers, will become more effective as it gets faster, or if you are trying to say that weapon 2 will be more effective when compared to weapon 1 and might become better.
Well, both really.
How about an example.
Weapon 1 has a speed of 2.5
Weapon 2 has a speed of 3.5
Weapon 1 has a higher Effectiveness Rating than Weapon 2.
For this exercise, it doesn't matter what the damage is for these weapons. Just the speed.
You hit Novice Rifleman, and you aren't a Master Marksman. Your Rifle Speed is +30. That means that, for you, Weapon 1 will have a speed of 1.8, and Weapon 2 will have a speed of 2.5.
Weapon 1 is better in your hands than it would be in a Novice Marksman's hands. And so is Weapon 2. Both weapons are more effective.
However, Weapon 1 is still more effective than Weapon 2.
Weeks pass.
You move up a few boxes in Rifle Special Abilities. Your Rifle Speed is now +60. That means that, for you, Weapon 1 will have a speed of 1.0, and Weapon 2 will have a speed of 1.4.
Once again, BOTH weapons are more effective in your hands than they would be in a 0/0/0/0 Novice Rifleman's hands or in a Novice Marksman's hands.
And Weapon 1 will still be more effective than Weapon 2.
But now Weapon 1 has hit the 1.0 second cap. It will never be any more effective in your hands than it is right now. Weapon 2, on the other hand, still has room to improve.
Weapon 2 MIGHT become more effective than Weapon 1 when Weapon 2 hits the 1.0 speed cap. Or it might not. That depends entirely on the other stats.
Oh, I know what it is, I grew up in California so I hate commiting to one thing or another, so your usage of "will be" is too limiting to me 
Otherwise people will try to prove me wrong in special cases, so I always try to leave a back door or loophole. Your original statement had a few, but was still built ona solidified notion. I was just trying to figure out exactly how you meant it.
Stupid liberals
RomeoSix wrote:
If i understand your math correctly, U want both high effectiveness and a high volsted rating meaning your putting at the most damage and at the best bang for you buck in the HAM catergory. Low Volsted is bad right?
Broadly speaking, yes. Higher is better in all cases.
However, for specific situations, you might want to ignore the Volsted rating entirely. For example, as a Rifleman, my most effective weapon is my T21. And although it has low Volsted Ratings, it's still the best rifle for dropping bleeds.
Similarly, when I go out harvesting hides or meat or bones off of low-level critters, I just use autofire. At that point, the Volsted Ratings don't even come into play because I'm not using specials.
Skorn2 wrote:
So do i want a Volsted raiting that is higher?
Broadly speaking, yes. Higher is better, both for the Effectiveness Rating and the Volsted Rating.
However, in specific situations, you may want to ignore the ratings entirely. For example, when dropping bleeds on a target, I will always use my T21, regardless of its low Volsted Rating, since I get the best bleed per shot from the T21. I'm willing to sacrifice a little extra HAM to get a big bleed.
Similarly, when I'm out plinking bunnies for Wooly Hides, I just use auto-fire and don't bother with specials, to save wear and tear on my gun. In that case, I tend to use the Laser Rifle, despite it being less effective than the T21. The Laser Rifle and the T21 both rarely take more than 2 regular (autofire) shots to kill a low-level critter, and they one-shot kill with regularity. So in that case, the T21 is overkill and the 7.2 speed of my T21 is less useful than the 5.6 speed of my Laser Rifle.
So, like so many things in life, it depends on the situation. The ratings are meant to be a guideline, not a hard and fast rule for all time.
What a post Volsted! You've clued me in on a few things I wasn't aware of, like the 80/10/10 distribution, andmore exact arithmetic for Weapon Speed Skill.
I will definitely back you up on your findings, as they are very inline with my qualitative experiments. Applying your math quantifies my trial-and-error findings. I am currently 0/4/4/4 and turning my attention towards obtaining optimal weapons for my skill. For me, every shot is a special. A normal shot is a wasted shot.
So this is where I need help. Can someone reply to this awesome thread with the Special Delay Modifiers for each of the BH specials? I've searched for posts and turned up nothing.