Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: The Jedi Problem examined a call to reason
ProzacRefugee wrote:
Does LucasArts retain creative control? I was under the impression the Jedi were mainly an SOE thing, that Lucas wanted them to be very rare.
yeah, LA still has control. when it comes to his baby George is like the soup-nazi.
Just imagine, if the game had force wielders, who had learned old jedi ways to construct a "sabre". And many would wear robes etc, as the deemed themselves egostisticly ready to be jedi, but infact were not yet.
But on each server there could be only 1 true jedi on the light side, and only 1 on the dark.
They had perma death. But they had emense power. And constantly one would be looking for the other. For it's meant they are to fight, for the balance of either evil or good. Once the ultimate fight takes place and one dies.
Perhaps those force wielders of the dark could gain more power to the victory and have offered a special skill box to gain while the dark side holds sway. Similair for light.
But generally the game was more gcw, where battles wereencouraged (alot like wow battlegrounds). ! vs 1 were more likely smugglers and BH's etc.
To enrole as a storm trooper would mean many npc misison were you are part of a troop carryign out missions for th empire. as you progress you can even control a squad of 5 storm troopers say.
The rebels more on quick strikes, skills in slicing and bombs atacks camo' and stealth etc.
Perhaps stikcingto a time line wouldnt be so much fun.
But if you enrole as a storm trooper and take missions, you work through the ranks, and do missions as part of a team, not just roaming about on your own hitting random rebel "camps".
Also why don't we see an attacks on towns, for exmaple why hasn't there even been an AT AT with two At St's ever rolling up with two shuttles of stormies runnig out to attack anchor head and try and seaze control, were later a rebel raid could take place, each opposing side has to try and hold it for various benefits, med center use garage use etc. Or specfic vendors.
I'm my view the game could have been emensely better, Flying about on your own in a tie fighter or x wing, or running about on your own in stom armour etc, is alot more unbelieveable than the amount of jedi.
So many questionable things with SWG, there really are.
On scales, if you were to put what would earn money, and on the other what would make a great game.
I just wonder how balanced those too aims are, not just now for SWG, but when it was first planned and dreamed up.
Shender wrote:
Daeges wrote:
"You seem to forget that regardless of the timeline, faith to the movies, canon, whatever. It's just BAD game design to have an alpha class like jedi that isn't "very very very rare"
Is that what we have? One Alfa class? Aren't there 5 different masteries in Jedi, with many more different combination of double masteries? What comes after? The new FRS hasn't determined what more may come. That aside, let's examine the heart of your statement:
'It's bad game design to have such a class(es) that aren't very rare.' How? Why? What happens? Saying "it's just bad" doesn't help us understand the problem. What does the jedi population at any size, do to you playing the game? Is all the content consumed? Can you not persue your ambitions? What doors close to you as the jedi population rises?
I'm not get in the middle of all this BS, but for your information, it's not alfa. We do not live in the Dark Ages. Learn how to spell. It is alpha. It is Greek for the letter 'A.'
Message Edited by Thassk on 07-23-2005 11:33 AM
SioBabble wrote:
Rellium123 wrote:
It seems to me the problem was in making the setting of the MMORPG during the time of the Galactic Civil War. If they'd made the setting three or four decades before the Clone Wars, there could be as many Jedi as people wanted, and a rich, big, wide galaxy to play them in. Setting the game in the time of the GCW was just plain short-sighted, in my opinion. A Star Wars game without Jedi just isn't a Star Wars game, and a game designer would have to be a real 'tard to not realize that people want to be Jedi in Star Wars games...
Originally, SWG was not going to have any Jedi at all.
This was to be a story set during the Galactic Civil War, a period when force wielders, in general, were reduced to a handful. As Grand Moff Tarkin put it, the Jedi were extinct, their power had gone out of the universe, and Vader was the last believer in their religion.
Of course, Tarkin didn't know who the Emperor really was. That was the most highly kept secret of all. Only the four force wielders left at the galactic level knew the truth, and they were not talking...that the GCW was in fact just part of the conflict, which at its roots was Jedi vs. Sith, Light Side vs. Dark Side.
But somewhere along the line in the development process, someone had the brilliant idea of putting Jedi in this game where they were not originally planned, and had the clout to make it so. It's obvious at the beginning that Jedi were not originally supposed to be in the game because lightsabers did kinetic damage. They were redressed Nyax or Rantok swords in game play terms. Only later was "lightsaber damage" introduced into the game...and nearly everything made vulnerable to it.
If the game were set as you suggest in the period of the Clone Wars, or even after the Battle of Endor (as the Jedi Knight series is), the armies of Force wielders would not be a problem. Because being a Jedi is more than just being Force Sensitive or being a Force user. Much more, and the game misses that point entirely.
The other principle issue I think is we have a Star Wars "generation gap". For those of us who became SW fans during the original trilogy, SW is about more than lightsabers and force lightening. It's about blasters and smugglers and X wings and ordinary people caught up in events.
Those who came along later, and were introduced to Star Wars by the prequel trilogy think of Star Wars being about Jedi and lightsabers...and they're driving the marketing of the game, which is Jedi-centric now to the extreme. It's not about "living a life in the Star Wars universe" anymore...it's about getting a flashlight and "fullfilling your destiny" as a Force user...something that Lucas made clear was not for everyone, but SOE/LA has decided to toss out the window in favor of higher sales.
Message Edited by Thassk on 07-23-2005 01:13 PM
And this really sums it up. This is not just an MMO - if you want that, go play the latest versions of Quake, Doom, Half-Life, etc. This is an MMORPG. It should change, yes, but not so drastically that the entire foundation and backstory changes as a marketing ploy. Honestly, I think they should give Jedi their own zone - hell, let them go back in time 100 years in this uber zone. They can be super "1.5" powers and killeach otheror PvE all they want. However, if they're in the "real" Star Wars universe and someone catches them using force powers, about 50 Imperial Troopers arrive to take you down (no, not the CL 31 troopers, the CL 82+ - 50 of them.)
I can't get off a ship without hearing *buzz* *zap* "I owned you, dude!" "/duel me!!!" "/duel me!!!"
It's a very sad state of affairs in this game right now...
that statement is brilliant ... because of the thought it inspires ...
i want whoever reads this post of mine to really think this through ... if jedi were given their OWN server ... where they couldnt interact with NON jedi .. but could interact with all the other jedi who play this game ... would anyone play on that server? would anyone bother being jedi?
what does jedi become without the other classes?
Message Edited by Thassk on 07-23-2005 01:09 PM
Thassk wrote:
that statement is brilliant ... because of the thought it inspires ...
i want whoever reads this post of mine to really think this through ... if jedi were given their OWN server ... where they couldnt interact with NON jedi .. but could interact with all the other jedi who play this game ... would anyone play on that server? would anyone bother being jedi?
what does jedi become without the other classes?
You could also take it the other way - have 1 or 2 servers where the same Jedi system applies, but permadeath (remember, youcouldSTILL play your Jedi if you gotpermadeath'ed, you just startedback at square one - literally)is still in place (like Siege Perilous on Ultima Online, different ruleset, same gameplay.) Sure, you can be a Jedi, but they'd be incredibly rare.
The ONLY problem with this is that a HUGE portion of the player-base will spend the 30 bucks to transfer there, and never have to worry about the d00ds again. I know I would. I would also strive to be a Jedi on that server, because it would be something difficult and special.
TheMadCoder wrote:
Thassk wrote:that statement is brilliant ... because of the thought it inspires ...
i want whoever reads this post of mine to really think this through ... if jedi were given their OWN server ... where they couldnt interact with NON jedi .. but could interact with all the other jedi who play this game ... would anyone play on that server? would anyone bother being jedi?
what does jedi become without the other classes?
You could also take it the other way - have 1 or 2 servers where the same Jedi system applies, but permadeath (remember, you could STILL play your Jedi if you got permadeath'ed, you just started back at square one - literally) is still in place (like Siege Perilous on Ultima Online, different ruleset, same gameplay.) Sure, you can be a Jedi, but they'd be incredibly rare.
The ONLY problem with this is that a HUGE portion of the player-base will spend the 30 bucks to transfer there, and never have to worry about the d00ds again. I know I would. I would also strive to be a Jedi on that server, because it would be something difficult and special.
Yep, that's the easiest solution. Give us a no-Jedi server or a perma-death server w/ saber and force TEFs. Then I would be happy.
TheMadCoder wrote:
Thassk wrote:
that statement is brilliant ... because of the thought it inspires ...
i want whoever reads this post of mine to really think this through ... if jedi were given their OWN server ... where they couldnt interact with NON jedi .. but could interact with all the other jedi who play this game ... would anyone play on that server? would anyone bother being jedi?
what does jedi become without the other classes?
You could also take it the other way - have 1 or 2 servers where the same Jedi system applies, but permadeath (remember, youcouldSTILL play your Jedi if you gotpermadeath'ed, you just startedback at square one - literally)is still in place (like Siege Perilous on Ultima Online, different ruleset, same gameplay.) Sure, you can be a Jedi, but they'd be incredibly rare.
The ONLY problem with this is that a HUGE portion of the player-base will spend the 30 bucks to transfer there, and never have to worry about the d00ds again. I know I would. I would also strive to be a Jedi on that server, because it would be something difficult and special.
Thassk wrote:
you missed my point entirely ...
TheMadCoder wrote:
Thassk wrote:
you missed my point entirely ...
No, I think I've got you. If everyone is a Jedi, then why bother being one?You'd benothing special. I'm just throwing something else out there, that's all.
well i must admit ... your idea is a great one ... and to be honest i think knowing what happened with servers on ultima online i think it may happen with this game ...
i think leaving permadeath on a server would have been the best idea ever ... i would still be in awe of jedi ... everytime i saw em ... and i would respect the hell out of a jedi just for showing up and leaving his house ...
and as for my point .. it was this .. if there was no variety in templates or characters ..if jedi were forced to play and PVPonly with themselves ... none of them would go for it .. theyd want to join the rest of the population and play on a level field ..... that says a lot
i just feel sad that there are kids out there who really want to roleplay something like smuggler .. or a stormtrooper carbineer but arent given any respect because they arent considered an "alpha" or "end-game" profession ...
Message Edited by Thassk on 07-23-2005 01:29 PM
Thassk wrote:
TheMadCoder wrote:
Thassk wrote:
you missed my point entirely ...
No, I think I've got you. If everyone is a Jedi, then why bother being one? You'd be nothing special. I'm just throwing something else out there, that's all.
well i must admit ... your idea is a great one ... and to be honest i think knowing what happened with servers on ultima online i think it may happen with this game ...
i think leaving permadeath on a server would have been the best idea ever ... i would still be in awe of jedi ... everytime i saw em ... and i would respect the hell out of a jedi just for showing up and leaving his house ...
and as for my point .. it was this .. if there was no variety in templates or characters .. if jedi were forced to play and PVP only with themselves ... none of them would go for it .. theyd want to join the rest of the population and play on a level field ... .. that says a lot
i just feel sad that there are kids out there who really want to roleplay something like smuggler .. or a stormtrooper carbineer but arent given any respect because they arent considered an "alpha" or "end-game" profession ...
Message Edited by Thassk on 07-23-2005 01:29 PM
Yep.
The problem can be sumed up in one sentence... Not everyone wants to play a Jedi, but everyone wants to play a character that has a purpose and can be competitive(if they like combat).
negilum wrote:
ProzacRefugee wrote:
Does LucasArts retain creative control? I was under the impression the Jedi were mainly an SOE thing, that Lucas wanted them to be very rare.
yeah, LA still has control. when it comes to his baby George is like the soup-nazi.
.. they might have done a job on his headMessage Edited by Thassk on 07-23-2005 02:32 PM
