Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Bounty Hunters... what can Dev do Right Now??
CyberData4
Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:03 pm
#560
Explorationline is the way to go, it gives us the ability to run up steep terrain.
RedMangg
Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:51 pm
#561
Buxley wrote:
Very nice, very constructive note, Landshark42. I only wish I had written it.
The bounty hunter profession does need some TLC, even the Devs realize that. But we don't need this quickfix that irrevocably changes our profession from the most elite class in the game to just another high-level class. Bounty hunters are special, they are supposed to be the best of the best in terms of tracking and capturing their marks -- not yet another Flavour of the Month profession for players to dabble in.
Sure, a MBH only has 33 skill points left over -- so what? If the BH profession was working properlywe wouldn't need more points than that.
Think our profession will ever get mantraps after this change? No way. We don't have any experience trapping any more so it wouldn't make sense. Better, more interesting ways of tracking bounties without having to resort to droids? Forget it: we no longer know anything about hunting. And don't you think it makes sense that a bounty hunter would know how to survive in the wilds? Um... Duh.
So please understand: This carrot the Devs are offering us looks tasty (who wouldn't want more skill points to play with?) but if we accept this requirements change, bounty hunters will never get the revamp we so richly deserve. Ever.
Think about it. Is this stop-gap measure worth that?
-Bux
How about using it for our advantage
>Sure, a MBH only has 33 skill points left over -- so what? If the BH profession was working properlywe wouldn't need more points than that.
Given how specials change etc and the constent changing of the game, do you think this is achievable in SWG? If it was working properly. It can work fine but Jedi get changed so that our weapons are useless and we just went down the gurgler. If however we are using skill points in a combat profession that has just become useless, we can switch! There is a much faster change on that than waiting for the Devs to do something
>So please understand: This carrot the Devs are offering us looks tasty (who wouldn't want more skill points to play with?) but if we accept this requirements change, bounty hunters will never get the revamp we so richly deserve. Ever.
This carrot is worth it, GO with it. OK, we now love choosing our weaponry, get rid of the useless Carbine and Pistol trees and GIVE US better Bounty hunter stuff. More droids that hunt better, give player stats so if we travel into a remote planet, we can wait tillour droids report our Jedi has lost their buffs. If we no longer NEED our own mini combat tree's we don't need the Devs to focus on them when they look at BH.
ROBO1964
Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:11 pm
#562
I can't help wondering if I had any impact on this happening. If others did what I did then as a group we probably did.
Last week after the Jedi Mission nerf I sent a feed bacl on that was quite long. I explained that the BH forum posts had turned from disgruntled posts to hate mail directed as specific devs. I explained how we get nerfed again and again and never get any good news and that the BH were so mad now that many are probably going to quit the game unless they get some glimmer of hope. I also asked if any Dev's read the forums as they should to see how pissed we all are forst hand.
Then a couple days later we get this. I can't help wonder if they gave this feedback to a dev who then read the forum which was exceedingly hostile at the time and decided to do some drastic measure to keep players from quitting.
It just amuses me as it was an odd coincidence otherwise. I wonder if anyone else did this as more would have surely had an impact.
CyberData4
Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:20 pm
#563
Redmango, the devs already stated that the changes we want and truly need are coming. Problem is they said they will take time. This is somthing they can do now to ease our suffering. I wish the people railing against this change would stop being fatalists and breathe easy. We are getting a change that wont make us any worse in combat.
RedMangg
Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:37 pm
#564
CyberData4 wrote:
RedmangG, the devs already stated that the changes we want and truly need are coming. Problem is they said they will take time. This is somthing they can do now to ease our suffering. I wish the people railing against this change would stop being fatalists and breathe easy. We are getting a change that wont make us any worse in combat.
Yep, I know it all takes time, I don't want it now, which I suppose is against this thread, but, I also do not think that wanting to go back to what BH was, an elite profession, the devs can do.
The change to give us more skill points is, I believe, a good step. We'll see how we like choosing our combat professions.
Next move, fix droids.
And, in the combat balance, I do NOT want to go back to relying on 2 tree's to match other combat professions. They failed once and I really can't see them managing it again, if you asked a Dev
"Can you see there ever being a set balance in PvP, or PvE?"
I'd say the answer will be no, which means there will always be changes.
Given the fact as an Elite profession we rely heavily on just a few specials, I think there is a high chance as a group we will be stuck in the same boat again, a special that doesn't work due to a change anywhere in the whole game, which disables us for a long period in combat.
If this happens but our actual combat skills are selected from other professions, we as players, can do something about it while its broken apart from live in misery.
Darksbane00
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:00 am
#565
I for one LOVE this change, the extra skill points will give me so many more options. It will also allow some very cool new templates to pop up.
fav
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:07 am
#566
>>7...BH do what they do because it is lucrative...as it should be in the game. If it wasn't for selling 20 million credits worth of resources 6 months ago, I'd be broke trying to master BH between the buffs, the food, and the sheer amount of armor and weapons I go through. When I was a TKM I used 2 VKs to make Master TK.
Yeah, and now they want to give us no xp or money for killing Jedi because of a problem they created when they erased permadeath. It seems like the profession the fewest players use (jedi) is getting the most development attention. Why work on a skill tree that new players won't be able to use for a year when you've got subscribers canceling due to flaws in professions we actually want to play now??
galahad646
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:14 am
#568
I agree with moving the Jedi missions to MBH and increasing the payout. I don't agree with us having master scout though. Why do we need to know how to use traps for ANIMALS, gather resources from animals, and make tents? I don't think that making us use up our skill points on stuff that does not make sense just so it makes the requirements high for our class is stupid. Someone suggested having us get the unarmed part of the brawler tree to use up our skill points. That makes no sense either. When was the last time you saw a BH going toe to toe with something? They are all about the guns. I do like the idea us hunting Jedi but we should not be the Devs control device for them. Now that Jedi don't TEF themselves I got to see how many are on Bria. There are tons of Jedi. Now they have no fear and are out in the open.
I also recommend moving Torso shot to MBH to prevent dabbling. Some would say that eye shot is more powerful but with everyone wearing good stun helms and getting there minds up to around 2k it is much easier to drain the health pool if you have some pistoleer.
Message Edited by galahad646 on 06-30-2004 12:22 PM
landshark42
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:33 am
#569
I've been playing this game since launch with almost the sole interest of being a bounty hunter. I reached the status of MBH and have hardly played SWG since, although I read the message boards daily.
I think this change, to reduce the number of skill points by dropping three lines of scout, is an ill concieved hack. BHs should realize that the devs are further undermining this profession under the justification of expediency. This has been a pervasive problem with SWG since launch. Instead of taking the time to properly address problems and construct a well devoloped concept to be implemented to address problems, random hacks are made to appease the players. However, the long term result is a game that is regressing to an inchoate mess instead of slowly progressing toward a well articulated goal according to a well though out blueprint and plan of action (with few exceptions such as the jedi revamp, which is great for jedi, useless for everyone else).
I implore BHs to look passed the short term gain in potential individual power gain by become a subset of other professions and consider what we want the BH profession to be and whether this advances us toward that goal. If it does not, it should be rejected and a demand made that all time devoted to fixing our profession be devoted our end goal and not to short term regressive hacks.
In this light, I think we should work with our correspondent to hammer out a definite profession blue print we want to see implemented in addition to our list of prioritized bug fixes. (I'm not playing the game again until they fix the jedi logout and droid tracking issues).
My comments on such a blue print are as follows:
1. The conception of a BH needs to go beyond the simplistic notion that a BH is a high offense, low defense archetype.
2. The core role of a BH is to track and capture or kill individuals with bounties on their head. The BH skills should reflect that.
3. BH should be skilled in the use of rifles, this should replace the carbine line or LLC line. BHs often play the role of an assassin or use surprise long range attacks to catch their prey off guard. Example from movies, Zam Wessel has a rifle to take out her own droid with Obi-wan attached at a distance. BH need to be precision shooters to accomplish their missions.
4. BH should be skilled in the use of some short range distance weapons such as pistols for scenarios where they end up on close quarters combat due to unforseen circumstances. E.g., jango confronting obi-wan on the landing pad.
5. BH should not be skilled in the use of heavy battle field type weapons, i.e., the LLC. While the LLC is a cool weapon and in the current implementation one of our few options that gives us some offensive punch it simply doesn't fit the archetype of a BH, it should be a commando type weapon. The solution is giving us working and potent skills appropriate to our profession not some odd add on weapon that doesn't fit the role of a BH.
6. BH are not elite soldiers and rely on craftiness and cunning to catch or kill their marks. Thus, we need gadgets such as traps and similar items to give us an edge over an individual target. The greater variety of gadgets the better to make each BH and individual with his/her own style.
Missions
1. The current missions we have are simply lame (like most of the missions in the game). Tracking some guy to the middle of nowhere over and over is not what the life of BH should be. We should be asked to track then capture or kill smugglers, politicians, rebel and imperial officers and similar NPC in their natural environment. We should be given clues to their whereabout that require us to do some investigation, like a waypoint to their last known location and then talking to locals or searching their house to find another clue, etc. Some missions may require discretion, to catch a mark off guard or not alert authorities, such as taking out a target at a certain time or location. These missions should be in natural settings like politicians in cities, smugglers in cantinas and starports, officers at bases etc. etc. not in the middle of nowhere.
2. The missions we get should be given out by someone who cares about their completion. We should build reputation by our successes that advance us toward MBH. BHs should have a structure to work within, like advancing within the ranks of jabba, black sun, valarian or similar syndicates or within a more neutral bh guild, or even with the empire or rebellion.
These are just my suggestions for getting started down this road, i'm sure i'm not the first to say some of these things but i think its crucial we take a longer view of our profession to save it and the game at the same time.
Regards
Landshark42
I think this change, to reduce the number of skill points by dropping three lines of scout, is an ill concieved hack. BHs should realize that the devs are further undermining this profession under the justification of expediency. This has been a pervasive problem with SWG since launch. Instead of taking the time to properly address problems and construct a well devoloped concept to be implemented to address problems, random hacks are made to appease the players. However, the long term result is a game that is regressing to an inchoate mess instead of slowly progressing toward a well articulated goal according to a well though out blueprint and plan of action (with few exceptions such as the jedi revamp, which is great for jedi, useless for everyone else).
I implore BHs to look passed the short term gain in potential individual power gain by become a subset of other professions and consider what we want the BH profession to be and whether this advances us toward that goal. If it does not, it should be rejected and a demand made that all time devoted to fixing our profession be devoted our end goal and not to short term regressive hacks.
In this light, I think we should work with our correspondent to hammer out a definite profession blue print we want to see implemented in addition to our list of prioritized bug fixes. (I'm not playing the game again until they fix the jedi logout and droid tracking issues).
My comments on such a blue print are as follows:
1. The conception of a BH needs to go beyond the simplistic notion that a BH is a high offense, low defense archetype.
2. The core role of a BH is to track and capture or kill individuals with bounties on their head. The BH skills should reflect that.
3. BH should be skilled in the use of rifles, this should replace the carbine line or LLC line. BHs often play the role of an assassin or use surprise long range attacks to catch their prey off guard. Example from movies, Zam Wessel has a rifle to take out her own droid with Obi-wan attached at a distance. BH need to be precision shooters to accomplish their missions.
4. BH should be skilled in the use of some short range distance weapons such as pistols for scenarios where they end up on close quarters combat due to unforseen circumstances. E.g., jango confronting obi-wan on the landing pad.
5. BH should not be skilled in the use of heavy battle field type weapons, i.e., the LLC. While the LLC is a cool weapon and in the current implementation one of our few options that gives us some offensive punch it simply doesn't fit the archetype of a BH, it should be a commando type weapon. The solution is giving us working and potent skills appropriate to our profession not some odd add on weapon that doesn't fit the role of a BH.
6. BH are not elite soldiers and rely on craftiness and cunning to catch or kill their marks. Thus, we need gadgets such as traps and similar items to give us an edge over an individual target. The greater variety of gadgets the better to make each BH and individual with his/her own style.
Missions
1. The current missions we have are simply lame (like most of the missions in the game). Tracking some guy to the middle of nowhere over and over is not what the life of BH should be. We should be asked to track then capture or kill smugglers, politicians, rebel and imperial officers and similar NPC in their natural environment. We should be given clues to their whereabout that require us to do some investigation, like a waypoint to their last known location and then talking to locals or searching their house to find another clue, etc. Some missions may require discretion, to catch a mark off guard or not alert authorities, such as taking out a target at a certain time or location. These missions should be in natural settings like politicians in cities, smugglers in cantinas and starports, officers at bases etc. etc. not in the middle of nowhere.
2. The missions we get should be given out by someone who cares about their completion. We should build reputation by our successes that advance us toward MBH. BHs should have a structure to work within, like advancing within the ranks of jabba, black sun, valarian or similar syndicates or within a more neutral bh guild, or even with the empire or rebellion.
These are just my suggestions for getting started down this road, i'm sure i'm not the first to say some of these things but i think its crucial we take a longer view of our profession to save it and the game at the same time.
Regards
Landshark42
MauiWarrior
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:38 am
#570
ReoRanzor wrote:
I think this is a good start for BH changes.... i can be TKM - Master BH now.... yay!
no you cant.... not enough skill poits, master bh/4441 tka you could do, but not master.drop llc line and you can be mtk 4440 bh
Message Edited by MauiWarrior on 06-30-2004 12:38 PM
DewbackRider525
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:42 am
#571
Ok heres my opinion again in this time of the GCW in the movies there were few jedi around.All I have heard form players is I WANT TO BE A JEDI WAH WAH WAH!This game was never about everyone being a Jedi.But all the people cried enough that SOE had to do it to save subscriptions. I think now that the Current Jedi are set for a bit lets work on something else.If everyone in this game became a jedi who would make the weapons the armor and other things needed.If this game becomes Jedi wars I will cancel my subscription.I am a BH I dont want to be a Jedi and I know there are more people out there like me. I say let the current Jedi have there cake , but I say let's fix the BH profession now before the next Jedi Publish so we can be effective before they become like underware meaning eveybody has them.I am satisfied with the requirements to become a BH.We track our bounties in the wilderness so we should have to know how to survive out in it. I think fixing the current bugs and fixing the combat so we are not so weak and mabye adding some Bounty Hunter specific gadgets is what we need.DEV'S I know you take alot of heat from us and we are just frustrated right now Please think about your decision on this quick fix and wait and do the right thing and do it right. Thanks for your hatd work keep us in mind guys !
Loran Jaracos Bounty Hunter
MidiChloriman
Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:43 am
#572
Greetings,I fell this is a bad move on the devs part, if anyhting it looks like a quick fix to make people happy...which we all know is not always a good thing. If MBH is easy to grind we will have tons of people running around as MBH's, then systematically this game will become Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided between Jedi and Bounty Hunters! This to me ruins the whole point of becoming a bounty Hunter. Bh's to meare the elite of the ranged professions, and for awhile there MBH was not easy to get and was very tedious, therefore we had a limited few that stuck with it instead of moving on, these people to me are the TRUE Bounty Hunters of Star Wars.
I am not a Bounty Hunter so I dont know all the bugs with the profession so dont flame me. I am sure there are alot of reasons this change was made, but all in all it will be a bad one, I guarantee it.
For the past few weeks I have been testing the new publish on test center bria. I made a MBH and met up with my in game Jedi friends. We also had alot of people from our regular server test the MBH vs. Jedi thing on TC with us. First of all I watched a Jedi Knight get owned by a Fencer, which was a big joke. Thenwe tried to take on our Jedi, at first it was three of us MBH's and we failed miserably, actually It didnt matter how many MBH's we had or how good we were, we never had a chance against a Jedi. In some cases this is how it should be but all jedi arent SuperUber, I remember a many Jedi being killed by a blaster shot placed perfectly in the movies and books.
SoI guess my point is this.....Dont make BH easier to get, make it more powerful at its current point. Make it so 1 BH can have a chance at taking a Jedi knight if he is skilled and plays his cards right!! This in turn will drive down the jedi population alot, which is a good thing because I see jedi everywhere I go now and that does not fit with the continuity of the story, and this will make bounty hunters more rare and uber like they should be!
My one and only suggestion for making Bounty Hunter more powerful would be to give them Dual Wield Blasters like jango had, a flamethrower that cant be blocked, and a grapplehook mechanism to give some advatage over the enemy, because as we all know, no matter how hard you try you WILL NOT be able to fireknockdown a Jedi, trust me ive tried it 
Well I could write 5 more pages about this issue but dont have the time.....Please Devs Please consider this extensively before you decide what to do PLEASE!! and While im posting this I do want to thank the Devs for all their hardwork, you all have my utmost respect when it comes to gamemaking!! Well done keep up the good work and please dont rsh things...PLEASE!!
Rushed Quick fix = Pissed of gamers
Proper Delayed fix = Impatient but satisfied gamers
Thanks
Sureal Stone <Haven>
Haven Council / Mayor of Riven