Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Is it EVER okay for a Jedi to die?
Niccolado wrote:
Tucheck wrote:
I've recently been wondering...under WHAT condition is it "okay" in the eyes of the Jedi communiyt for a Jedi to be killed?
If, as a BH, we kill a Padawan, we are "bottom feeding" and picking on "weak" Jedi in an effort to grieve.
If, as a BH group, we kill a Jedi, we are being unfair in an effort to grieve.
If, as a BH, we attack a Jedi that is already in combat we are "a weak BH with no honor" (YES, I have been told this more then once), and if given the chance to fight when the Jedi is "prepared", we would lose.
If, as a BH, we kill a Jedi in a 1 vs 1 fight wherein both the Jedi AND the Bounty Hunter were prepared, then we are overpowered.
Is it EVER "okay" that a Bounty Hunter kills a Jedi?
Can anyone seriously answer this question? It would seem as though, even when we win, we cannot "win".
First I would like to add that its never ok to die. Dying Defeats purpose, so thats not an option.
Now, If this should really be the case. When is it "ok" for a jedi to Die:
1.)
In my opinion its ok to die when you are bottom feeding. The problem is Jedi is loosing much more then he can gain in his current situation. As a Novice Jedi he cant protect himself. and its like hunting "younglings"; Defenceless creatures, who show no resistance. Except from that they are very good at running. any novice jedi can handle dying 1 or 2 times a day to a BH. The problem is when you start dying like 5-10 times a day. So its not the death itself that bothers most jedi. Its the numbers of death.
2.)
Gank Groups in also very much imbalanced, since most jedi cant stand up to handle 5 BHs. 5 BHs that all shoot like Root, of sniper shot etc. cant win. And thats not what the Jedi or SOE wants. We want to have a chance, but dont have it against a root/snipershot gank group. And definitely not with all the current nerfs we have had. Any fulltemplate can live with such a loss, but we the jedi cant see the "point" since we have lost before the fight start. and thats not the point. Jedi and BH should have equal chances. In gank groups this is very difficult, unless the BHs are rather very stupid and n00by.
3.)
You write that jedi call you weak if you attack jedi while killing other critters, and using that to your gain. Well. In my opinion, this is a kill any BH should strive for. BHs uses any chance to bring down their enemy. jedi might call you weak. I might have done it myself. but im sure when I have calmed down and pondered the situation a little. This is just a perfect kill for a BH. No. This is a OK kill. I would hate getting killed ofcource. But at least you killed the jedi "fair" and not bottom feeding or using gank groups.
4.)
you write that if a Jedi loose to you in 1 vs 1 fight, jedi would consider you owerpowered. LOL.... well, BHs have some very good attacks. Root is a little too bad atm. but besides that most your skills are acceptable. I cant at this time, see you are overpowered anyway. But jedi is not used to loose more then you, so a certain number of complaints you will have to expect. But if you are fighting a open 1 vs 1 fight with a full template jedi, and you win. I would congratulate you, and I would note your name for later use in case you are coming for me
Most jedi are as most BHers not good "loosers" in PvP. Be it fair or not. When a BH comes lurking in and disrupting the jedi in his chores, and then at the same time kills him, this is what you have to expect. However, there are some valid complaints from the jedi against BHs that have been fair - and ofcource the other way. I personally think that the coming publish will fix a lot of it.
Message Edited by Niccolado on 07-11-2005 07:19 AM
I disagree with #2. Show me a screenie of 5 BH on 1 Jedi. Is it possible? SOE says it is, however the odds are greatly reduced after 2 missions have been pulled. 3 is hard to find, 4 near impossible and I have never heard or seen 5 BH on a Jedi. Seriously, if there is any Jedi that have screenies of this, it would be much appreciated. Until then, 5 vs 1 is a BS arguement because it has never happenned post-CU.
By the way... everytime a Jedi dies, a 30 year old, balding, fat nerd that still lives in his parents basement has a heart attack. Free the parents, kill more old balding fat nerds.
ShaikeRamjet wrote:
Niccolado wrote:
Tucheck wrote:
I've recently been wondering...under WHAT condition is it "okay" in the eyes of the Jedi communiyt for a Jedi to be killed?
If, as a BH, we kill a Padawan, we are "bottom feeding" and picking on "weak" Jedi in an effort to grieve.
If, as a BH group, we kill a Jedi, we are being unfair in an effort to grieve.
If, as a BH, we attack a Jedi that is already in combat we are "a weak BH with no honor" (YES, I have been told this more then once), and if given the chance to fight when the Jedi is "prepared", we would lose.
If, as a BH, we kill a Jedi in a 1 vs 1 fight wherein both the Jedi AND the Bounty Hunter were prepared, then we are overpowered.
Is it EVER "okay" that a Bounty Hunter kills a Jedi?
Can anyone seriously answer this question? It would seem as though, even when we win, we cannot "win".
First I would like to add that its never ok to die. Dying Defeats purpose, so thats not an option.
Now, If this should really be the case. When is it "ok" for a jedi to Die:
1.)
In my opinion its ok to die when you are bottom feeding. The problem is Jedi is loosing much more then he can gain in his current situation. As a Novice Jedi he cant protect himself. and its like hunting "younglings"; Defenceless creatures, who show no resistance. Except from that they are very good at running. any novice jedi can handle dying 1 or 2 times a day to a BH. The problem is when you start dying like 5-10 times a day. So its not the death itself that bothers most jedi. Its the numbers of death.
2.)
Gank Groups in also very much imbalanced, since most jedi cant stand up to handle 5 BHs. 5 BHs that all shoot like Root, of sniper shot etc. cant win. And thats not what the Jedi or SOE wants. We want to have a chance, but dont have it against a root/snipershot gank group. And definitely not with all the current nerfs we have had. Any fulltemplate can live with such a loss, but we the jedi cant see the "point" since we have lost before the fight start. and thats not the point. Jedi and BH should have equal chances. In gank groups this is very difficult, unless the BHs are rather very stupid and n00by.
3.)
You write that jedi call you weak if you attack jedi while killing other critters, and using that to your gain. Well. In my opinion, this is a kill any BH should strive for. BHs uses any chance to bring down their enemy. jedi might call you weak. I might have done it myself. but im sure when I have calmed down and pondered the situation a little. This is just a perfect kill for a BH. No. This is a OK kill. I would hate getting killed ofcource. But at least you killed the jedi "fair" and not bottom feeding or using gank groups.
4.)
you write that if a Jedi loose to you in 1 vs 1 fight, jedi would consider you owerpowered. LOL.... well, BHs have some very good attacks. Root is a little too bad atm. but besides that most your skills are acceptable. I cant at this time, see you are overpowered anyway. But jedi is not used to loose more then you, so a certain number of complaints you will have to expect. But if you are fighting a open 1 vs 1 fight with a full template jedi, and you win. I would congratulate you, and I would note your name for later use in case you are coming for me
Most jedi are as most BHers not good "loosers" in PvP. Be it fair or not. When a BH comes lurking in and disrupting the jedi in his chores, and then at the same time kills him, this is what you have to expect. However, there are some valid complaints from the jedi against BHs that have been fair - and ofcource the other way. I personally think that the coming publish will fix a lot of it.
Message Edited by Niccolado on 07-11-2005 07:19 AM
I disagree with #2. Show me a screenie of 5 BH on 1 Jedi. Is it possible? SOE says it is, however the odds are greatly reduced after 2 missions have been pulled. 3 is hard to find, 4 near impossible and I have never heard or seen 5 BH on a Jedi. Seriously, if there is any Jedi that have screenies of this, it would be much appreciated. Until then, 5 vs 1 is a BS arguement because it has never happenned post-CU.
By the way... everytime a Jedi dies, a 30 year old, balding, fat nerd that still lives in his parents basement has a heart attack. Free the parents, kill more old balding fat nerds.
The only way to balance this out is to delete Jedi or BH from the game. One or the other... (I'm betting BH would go bye bye first)
Tucheck wrote:
Banzai51 wrote:
First off, this is a well written responce to a joke thread.
It's NOT a joke thread...I really wanted to know.
Then anytime, under any conditions it is ok to kill a Jedi. That is the game. BH have no code of honor to live up to. Anything goes.
Ok heres how I see it
If you kill a jedi 1 on 1 both of u r prepared congrats the jedi shouldnt wine
If you kill and already wounded jedi when there not prepared then well thats kinda not right but your just doing your job
If you kill an injured jedi that trys to put up a fite and doesnt try to run away then thats the jedis fault
5 BH vs. 1 jedi is not fair
Jedi need to stop whining because BH's r just doing there jobs. If you have a problem with it dont be a jedi simple as that.
I here jedi think its unfair if 5 Bh's kill 1 jedi but i heer jedi say its ok to kill 1 noob BH and 5 jedi do it? Its wrong both ways
i'll add stuff l8er if i need too
CaixCatab wrote:
Jengu-Fet wrote:
What the hell?.
You are trying to tell me that a new padawan with1 box is supposed to be able to kill a bounty hunter? and if he doesn't it is because of his lack of understanding?.
Please, just delete your character now because you sir are full of crap.
One box of jedi at 8 skill points means he has 32 skill points less than I do. Which is quite enough to match me for offensive firepower, if not defensive. Or vice versa. Well, actually, since I'm a pistoleer/BH, you could probably go master rifleman, parts of CM and parts of... pistoleer? Or more CM? Actually, he can be a master rifleman/CM with 20 skill points left to spare.
Quite enough to kill someone if well played I reckon.
Yes it is possible that he COULD kill someone if his template wasn't ALL Jedi. But some people out there do not realize that the Jedi they are hunting are most likely NOT pure Jedi, but have some other profession under their belt. These people then go onto either the Jedi forums or the Bounty Hunter forums and start complaining how overpowered the Jedi class is.
Message Edited by Jengu-Fet on 07-12-2005 06:04 AM
Tucheck wrote:
I've recently been wondering...under WHAT condition is it "okay" in the eyes of the Jedi communiyt for a Jedi to be killed?
If, as a BH, we kill a Padawan, we are "bottom feeding" and picking on "weak" Jedi in an effort to grieve.
If, as a BH group, we kill a Jedi, we are being unfair in an effort to grieve.
If, as a BH, we attack a Jedi that is already in combat we are "a weak BH with no honor" (YES, I have been told this more then once), and if given the chance to fight when the Jedi is "prepared", we would lose.
If, as a BH, we kill a Jedi in a 1 vs 1 fight wherein both the Jedi AND the Bounty Hunter were prepared, then we are overpowered.
Is it EVER "okay" that a Bounty Hunter kills a Jedi?
Can anyone seriously answer this question? It would seem as though, even when we win, we cannot "win".
No, it is never OK. Just like it is never ok for the BH to Die in the attempt to kill the Jedi.
Its very simple, many who post on these boards cant stand to lose. They fail to realize that sometimes things go you way and sometimes they dont, in other words there is a maturity problem.
As a BH I have only killed on jedi...that was because I got killed by him in regular PvP and I got his mission and paid him back, never actually hunted a jedi...yes I respec. My Jedi has been killed 2 out of the 3 times a BH came for me, never did I complain or send hate tells, I actually had to ask a group member to stop harassing the BH that killed me. Its a game, if I get on the terms no matter what my skill set a BH can hunt and kill me.
Jengu-Fet wrote:
KyridIce wrote:
I am currently a padawan. I have spent much time after my unlock grinding out a template that would give me enough pvp skills to survive a 1 on 1 encounter with a BH. I have also spent a lot of time toying around with a template builder program so I can map out how and when to learn or drop skills, in an effort to always be strong enough to fight BHs. Basically put, I've put in the effort before grinding so that I don't have to come whine on the forums about being killed. If a BH or group of BHs manage to kill me, then congrats to them. Jedi padawans don't EVER have to be weaker than a BH, they just choose to be by their own laziness or lack of understanding of the game.
What the hell?.You are trying to tell me that a new padawan with1 box is supposed to be able to kill a bounty hunter? and if he doesn't it is because of his lack of understanding?.Please, just delete your character now because you sir are full of crap.
That's exactly what he's saying and I'll back that 100%. I got smacked twice first week I was a paddy because I didn't know what to look for. After those times I was more than able to defend myself. I've always ground in a group. I've always been on the terms. I always fight. I have 5 BH deaths I'll count, and 1 I won't. I thank all the BH's who've come because they've made me a better PvPer.
The little boxes of skills aren't what make you good at PvP. It's the person behind them. The jedi grind means you have to be good at PvE killing stuff. The BH part of the grind means you have to be good at PvP. If you're not good at both you won't be good as a jedi. And you especially won't be good as a knight if they keep it based on pvp. It's your own fault if you don't want to learn how to PvP before becoming a jedi.
To the topic at hand hunt me and kill me whenever I'm atk, like someone else said. I had a client crash and was attacked with LD floating above my head and that was the only time I've been pissed off at a BH. That's the BH death I won't give props to the BH for. If a paddy isn't ld or obviously AFK, go nuts. Any jedi who gets his hate on because you killed him while grinding is just a whiner.
Jengu-Fet wrote:
CaixCatab wrote:
Jengu-Fet wrote:
What the hell?.
You are trying to tell me that a new padawan with1 box is supposed to be able to kill a bounty hunter? and if he doesn't it is because of his lack of understanding?.
Please, just delete your character now because you sir are full of crap.
Yes it is possible that he COULD kill someone if his template wasn't ALL Jedi. But some people out there do not realize that the Jedi that they are hunting are probably most likely NOT pure Jedi, but have some other profession under their belt. These people then go onto either the Jedi forums or the Bounty Hunter forums and start complaining how overpowered the Jedi class is.
... I rest my case? A "one box padawan" will *never* have a template that's "ALL jedi".
Ok sure, why don't you find a Jedi with ONLY novice sabers and get him to duel a MBH, then you'll see who wins.
SwenLaransa wrote:
Jengu-Fet wrote:
KyridIce wrote:
I am currently a padawan. I have spent much time after my unlock grinding out a template that would give me enough pvp skills to survive a 1 on 1 encounter with a BH. I have also spent a lot of time toying around with a template builder program so I can map out how and when to learn or drop skills, in an effort to always be strong enough to fight BHs. Basically put, I've put in the effort before grinding so that I don't have to come whine on the forums about being killed. If a BH or group of BHs manage to kill me, then congrats to them. Jedi padawans don't EVER have to be weaker than a BH, they just choose to be by their own laziness or lack of understanding of the game.
What the hell?.
You are trying to tell me that a new padawan with1 box is supposed to be able to kill a bounty hunter? and if he doesn't it is because of his lack of understanding?.
Please, just delete your character now because you sir are full of crap.
That's exactly what he's saying and I'll back that 100%. I got smacked twice first week I was a paddy because I didn't know what to look for. After those times I was more than able to defend myself. I've always ground in a group. I've always been on the terms. I always fight. I have 5 BH deaths I'll count, and 1 I won't. I thank all the BH's who've come because they've made me a better PvPer.
The little boxes of skills aren't what make you good at PvP. It's the person behind them. The jedi grind means you have to be good at PvE killing stuff. The BH part of the grind means you have to be good at PvP. If you're not good at both you won't be good as a jedi. And you especially won't be good as a knight if they keep it based on pvp. It's your own fault if you don't want to learn how to PvP before becoming a jedi.
To the topic at hand hunt me and kill me whenever I'm atk, like someone else said. I had a client crash and was attacked with LD floating above my head and that was the only time I've been pissed off at a BH. That's the BH death I won't give props to the BH for. If a paddy isn't ld or obviously AFK, go nuts. Any jedi who gets his hate on because you killed him while grinding is just a whiner.
Jengu-Fet wrote:
Ok sure, why don't you find a Jedi with ONLY novice sabers and get him to duel a MBH, then you'll see who wins.
SwenLaransa wrote:
Jengu-Fet wrote:
KyridIce wrote:
I am currently a padawan. I have spent much time after my unlock grinding out a template that would give me enough pvp skills to survive a 1 on 1 encounter with a BH. I have also spent a lot of time toying around with a template builder program so I can map out how and when to learn or drop skills, in an effort to always be strong enough to fight BHs. Basically put, I've put in the effort before grinding so that I don't have to come whine on the forums about being killed. If a BH or group of BHs manage to kill me, then congrats to them. Jedi padawans don't EVER have to be weaker than a BH, they just choose to be by their own laziness or lack of understanding of the game.
What the hell?.
You are trying to tell me that a new padawan with1 box is supposed to be able to kill a bounty hunter? and if he doesn't it is because of his lack of understanding?.
Please, just delete your character now because you sir are full of crap.
That's exactly what he's saying and I'll back that 100%. I got smacked twice first week I was a paddy because I didn't know what to look for. After those times I was more than able to defend myself. I've always ground in a group. I've always been on the terms. I always fight. I have 5 BH deaths I'll count, and 1 I won't. I thank all the BH's who've come because they've made me a better PvPer.
The little boxes of skills aren't what make you good at PvP. It's the person behind them. The jedi grind means you have to be good at PvE killing stuff. The BH part of the grind means you have to be good at PvP. If you're not good at both you won't be good as a jedi. And you especially won't be good as a knight if they keep it based on pvp. It's your own fault if you don't want to learn how to PvP before becoming a jedi.
To the topic at hand hunt me and kill me whenever I'm atk, like someone else said. I had a client crash and was attacked with LD floating above my head and that was the only time I've been pissed off at a BH. That's the BH death I won't give props to the BH for. If a paddy isn't ld or obviously AFK, go nuts. Any jedi who gets his hate on because you killed him while grinding is just a whiner.
Give that jedi some doc skills, and an elitecombat profession and I'll bet he'll do fine.