Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Tanks, now that only MBH get Jedi missions...
Jedi_Xan wrote:
my template is in my signature.
You have no healing in your template other than basic stimpacks. Your template is what is known as a "glass cannon". Basically, kill them fast or you are dead.
You are refusing to give up offensive/defensive abilities in order to get healing, how is that anyones problem but your own? My BH's def is around 220/230 and I can outheal a Jedi, apply more states than them, slow them to a crawl, do more damage per hit than them, mitigate 55% of any damage that actually hits from armour alone, etc etc.
Your ignorance of Jedi templates has been pointed out, but you also appear ignorant of what is possible for a BH.
Mars_Guo wrote:
Jedi_Xan it's very simple:
BH < JEDI
1 v 1, BH v Jedi, is not an even fight. ItSHOULDN'Tbe an even fight. It should be a fight that you have little chance of winning. Your skills should NEVER match up to a full-template jedi. In fact, your greatest skills for beating a jedi aren't even listed on your precious BH template ... they're called "surprise" and "choosing the right moment". I'm pretty sure infusion, aura, and all the other jedi skills you're b!tching about don't protect against that.
Watch the movies if you're confused about this. Jedi ARE an alpha class. The devs have said so. (In "dev" language jedi are intended to be "about 1.5x a regular profession" ... sounds like an alpha class to me).
It won't be an even fight. If you want an even fight, duel another BHs. If you go 1 v 1 with a full-template jedi, you should HOPE to win and EXPECT to lose. That's called a "challenge", and it's something that SWG has precious little of. You should be THANKING the devs for making jedi bounties more difficult. And the occasional time that you DO win the fight, you'll deserve to pat yourself on the back and laugh all the way to the bank. If you can't handle it when the odds are against you, don't spin the roulette wheel.
I read through this post and wasnt going to say anything, but there more I read I just had to:
I really find it funny as hell that you "think" jedi can out heal a BH now. If you have the right template, yes that means you need to change and adapt to the situation, you can Easily out last a jedi's force bar. I have seen many BH's take on Knights solo and win. Long fight yes it is and should be, oh but you want it over quick huh. As long as YOU have your "I Win" button it is ok. Noone has a "I Win" button now. Jedi can heal for 1500 every 6 secs costing us mind, action and force. BH can easily outdamage the Jedi's healing. things a BH has:
1. First attack. Dont just roll up and open fire. Track your mark down and watch him. If he is dueling get him at the end or close to. If he is out hunting, hit him while the aggro is on him. We as BH have the act of surprise. you have Rifleman and Pistoleer0004in your temp, same as mine pretty much, that means you have the range/root option as well. I do and I love and use it very well. Saberthrow does not knockdown unless the jedi is MLS now. Stay out of 32m range and you never need to worry about it.
2. BH gain defenses throughout their progression in the skills trees. Jedi HAVE to basically pick up Defender to have decent Defenses. Not all Jedi are MDEF now as you may think. Some maybe but far less. BH can wear armor that Jedi can't. Want to make it even, show up to your mark wearing no armor just your given defenses. You dont like your armor choice, go carbineer, very easily done. Problem solved.
3. Access to weapons that EASILY outdamage a jedi. Trust me there are many BH's out there that have hit me hard with one shot. Even with aura, infusion etc etc up.
You say you are half way through your grind. Really I would hate to hear what you will say once you unlock. You will then REALLY get to see how "uneasy" you thought it was. Then you will come on the jedi forums and cry for BH to be nerfed because they are too strong.... When you get hunted and cant hit for crap or defend for crap. I am done with my temp, was it easy, no way in hell was it. Did I die to a BH, yes. Did I expect it yes. Even now I dont expect to be able to defeat every BH that comes.
If you think you can or should easily be able to take a knight solo, you have another thing coming. Its not like hunting padawans. you actually need to think your strategy, this may also entail changing your temp, otherwise its a one way trip to the cloner.
Message Edited by GrimzKeeper on 07-06-2005 11:14 AM
You say you are half way through your grind. Really I would hate to hear what you will say once you unlock. You will then REALLY get to see how "uneasy" you thought it was. Then you will come on the jedi forums and cry for BH to be nerfed because they are too strong.... When you get hunted and cant hit for crap or defend for crap. I am done with my temp, was it easy, no way in hell was it. Did I die to a BH, yes. Did I expect it yes. Even now I dont expect to be able to defeat every BH that comes.
If you think you can or should easily be able to take a knight solo, you have another thing coming. Its not like hunting padawans. you actually need to think your strategy, this may also entail changing your temp, otherwise its a one way trip to the cloner.
You guys dont even have enough confidence in your own abilities. You solo Krayts, you take on NS elders, gorax, tank for Necrosis? I don't get it. How much more do you want. .03% of the MBH can even solo a Knight, much less 2 or 3 on one. What more do you expect? Is it too much to ask for an even fight. Mono e Mono. BH on one side, with his technology, and Jedi on the other, with his force. This is more than fair. I feel.
Well, lets see. I can read a radar. I see a blue dot, I am in my house. I got that part down. I have a small deed for a house for all planet types. I guarantee you, it will be planted, and when that blue dot gets within 500m I will be in it, until that threat is gone. Does that mean I will win every fight? Absolutely not.
Not getting vis while grouped will be an awesome plus. I think this will help alot and will reduce paddy hunting by a large margin.
If I do fight at early paddie, they will not face my LS, they will face my 1100 damage rifle, and 8100 resist armor, and 2200 energy psg, my foods, and my BH skills.For some time it looks like as I will be able to keep Master Rifle for along time. Lets see how they handle that.
I am a BH, and I don't have a problem with it. As a Jedi, I will expect it, and all the tricks that come with it.
Oh Please. The devs are nerfing every one. It would be nice if the Devs would stop nerfing EVERYONE for 2 months. The Devs giveth and taketh away.
Jedi_Xan wrote:
Adrasteia wrote:
Lol this is just funny. And before you start, No i'm not Jedi. I am MBH so to get that out of the way.
This is not about Bounty Hunters, this is about every other profession in this game. You want to have all armour certifications even though every other profession has to pick up another profession in order to get an additional certification? Why do you think Bounty Hunters should get that ability? What makes you more worthy than any other profession? Oh wait... Is it because you hunt Jedi?
Now I already know your answer. But my question is Jedi hunting more important than any thing in this game. So much more important that they get things other 'normal' professions can't. All armour certifications, no weapon hindrance and 'among other things' that we supposidly need to complete the mission. Im sure pistoleers would love to have all armour certifications, as would riflemen. I'd love to have them all with my Creature Handler alt. Why are you more important that what the other 200k plus players want?
The devs have alread gave us everything to complete the mission. You can't kill a Jedi, then thats your problem its not a problem of the whole class. Because im sure there's plenty of Bounty Hunters out there that kill Jedi just fine. Don't want to be FOTM template in order to kill Jedi? Well fine then it's your loss, because you know what to do in order to kill them. You don't do it... Then don't complain that you cant.
Plain and Simple
Adrasteia
I have killed a 226k mark. Albeit, I had one helper, but he wasnt even level 60. I am frustrated because everytime I turn around, they get more and we get less.
Why does a BH have ASSAULT : IE KINETIC resist armor. What kind of friggin joke was that.
Oh and lets go there.
We HAVE MBH specific RIFLES, CARBS, AND PISTOLS... Who else? NONE.
We are the ONLY profession that hunts an ALPHA class. Who else? NONE. Not unless they have BH
We are the ONLY profession that hunts primarily against ENERGY damaging targets, yet we have KINETIC armor. THAT is BS.
Jedi_Xan wrote:
You guys dont even have enough confidence in your own abilities. You solo Krayts, you take on NS elders, gorax, tank for Necrosis? I don't get it. How much more do you want. .03% of the MBH can even solo a Knight, much less 2 or 3 on one. What more do you expect? Is it too much to ask for an even fight. Mono e Mono. BH on one side, with his technology, and Jedi on the other, with his force. This is more than fair. I feel.
You still are on this ONE template idea here. Not all jedi can solo these things. A MDEF maybe, but there is also LS, Enhancer, Healer, Powers.Not everyone is MDEF. I am not am am having a ball. I cant solo or tank Necrosis on my Jedi, but I can solo a Krayt, Elder, Gorax with My BH. you need to know what template to use and how to fight your opponent. If you stand toe -to-toe with these you will die everytime. Use the terrain.
Well, lets see. I can read a radar. I see a blue dot, I am in my house. I got that part down. I have a small deed for a house for all planet types. I guarantee you, it will be planted, and when that blue dot gets within 500m I will be in it, until that threat is gone. Does that mean I will win every fight? Absolutely not.
So now you will be the runner that all BH hate. Have you ever taken a mark and found them in a house? Did you scream for a nerf to Jedi that run into houses? Lets see if you one the other end do these things BH say Jedi do.
Not getting vis while grouped will be an awesome plus. I think this will help alot and will reduce paddy hunting by a large margin. So now it is ok for Padawans to not gain visibility?? Were you one of the ones saying they better not make Jedi easier for padawans? I don't know just wondering.......
If I do fight at early paddie, they will not face my LS, they will face my 1100 damage rifle, and 8100 resist armor, and 2200 energy psg, my foods, and my BH skills.For some time it looks like as I will be able to keep Master Rifle for along time. Lets see how they handle that. By the time you get all that put on you will be dead. Rifle equippedis as far as I would goand you will be ok. try for the armor and you will be dead with half a set put on. Hate to say it but as Jedi you have crap for defense at padawan.
I am a BH, and I don't have a problem with it. As a Jedi, I will expect it, and all the tricks that come with it. We will see. Good luck to you either way.
The fact is, even in RL, a BH never goes in unprepared against a mark.
This right here makes me laugh more and more every time I see it. The 'real life' trump card. Well in real life i'm sure anyone who saw someone who was a Bounty Hunter, that killed his marks, and was any where near them. I'm sure they wouldn't stand around waiting for them to attack. I'm pretty sure they'd be always attackable then. Then again if it was real life and I knew of certain imformants that for some reason have gotten my DNA signature, I'm pretty sure they'd end up missing in the middle of the night. Then there's the droids that follow me around suspisciously wherever I go, I'd probably have to take them out also. Then theres the terminals, I'd probably take them also. The clone centers with the BH clone data, I'd probably have to wreck them also. I could go on and on about this so called 'real life' stuff. But thats not the point of this post.
It is OK for you, just don't let your nemesis have the power to beat it.
Its not even almost about that. As I mentioned earlier I'm not a Jedi. And there are BH's that do have the power to beat it. So if there are BH's that have the power to beat it. What does that mean? (Oh you said they were liars) Then again you said you have killed knights also... Here's how it boils down. If others players can beat Jedi Knights and you can beat Jedi Knights and they increase BH's power. Where does that land BH's? If BH's are better than regular professions, so much as to kill someone in 3 seconds, and they are increased, why be anything but a BH?
Obi Wan was obviously very powerful... but Jango was very well equipped.
I'm sure Jango could have had every piece of equipment in the Universe and still failed against Obi Wan, if not for 1 thing. He knew his abilities and was prepared. It's not about 'equipment', it's not about having 'mitigations' or having the right 'skills', it is about being prepared and knowing. Germany in WWII had superior equipment and failed, why? They overestimated their powers and overestended them.
As someone mentioned earlier your template is a 'glass cannon', full of sound and fury; signifying nothing. When push comes to shove, you cant heal. Combat is a war of attrition and quite frankly you have nothing left unless you kill them quickly.
If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu
Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. - Sun Tzu
Now go back to my original post and look what I've said. I agree that giving BH's assault armour was kinda stupid. As a tank, why dont the get Battle Armour? To me that seems logical. I'm not arguing that theres some silly things in BH. What im arguing is increasing BH's on the whole because certain templates can't beat certain templates in Jedi. It's a chess match played by the Dev's A beats B, B is beaten by D. If you increase BH's because they can't beat defenders, while they easily beat non-defenders, where does that go? BH's roll over anything but a defender, thus either:
a) making Master Defender a pre-requisite for being a Jedi, which means certain templates of BH can't beat defender
b) makes everyone in BH the same template or
c) those BH's complaining they cant beat Jedi with their tools and they want more
d) people complaining for a reduction in Jedi saying Jedi rule the game and nobody can kill them.
e) all of the above
Sound familiar?
Message Edited by Adrasteia on 07-06-2005 03:52 PM
So now you will be the runner that all BH hate. Have you ever taken a mark and found them in a house? Did you scream for a nerf to Jedi that run into houses? Lets see if you one the other end do these things BH say Jedi do.
Actually, I didnt have a problem with this. Because I understood the reason they hid. I understood their circumstance. So in answer to your question, no I did not scream nerf. I, however, did ask for TEF to be fixed. That was fair.
So now it is ok for Padawans to not gain visibility?? Were you one of the ones saying they better not make Jedi easier for padawans? I don't know just wondering.......
Actually, I supported no vis for grouped paddys. This I did not have a problem with. I understood them, and for that reason, I chose not to hunt <180K on the terms. The marks I hunted were more prepared and often are the very jedi we are all upset about. The ones showing off in town square.
By the time you get all that put on you will be dead. Rifle equippedis as far as I would goand you will be ok. try for the armor and you will be dead with half a set put on. Hate to say it but as Jedi you have crap for defense at padawan.
I missed something here. I have a defalt setting of 1024m on my map. I see stuff coming long before it gets there. I see the dots swerve one way or another on the radar. But when I see one coming straight for me, then all I do is click this little button on my toolbar. It is called a macro. I have 3. Armor, Gun, and Food/Drink. WIth a push of the button, I can have all of them done.
Oh, the deal here is, since I already have multiple accounts, there is no reason why I would ever have to travel far from home. I just use an alt to get food drink, crystals, whatever. Seems like a good plan to me.
We will see. Good luck to you either way.
I look forward to it.
Adrasteia wrote:
The fact is, even in RL, a BH never goes in unprepared against a mark.
This right here makes me laugh more and more every time I see it. The 'real life' trump card. Well in real life i'm sure anyone who saw someone who was a Bounty Hunter, that killed his marks, and was any where near them. I'm sure they wouldn't stand around waiting for them to attack. I'm pretty sure they'd be always attackable then. Then again if it was real life and I knew of certain imformants that for some reason have gotten my DNA signature, I'm pretty sure they'd end up missing in the middle of the night. Then there's the droids that follow me around suspisciously wherever I go, I'd probably have to take them out also. Then theres the terminals, I'd probably take them also. The clone centers with the BH clone data, I'd probably have to wreck them also. I could go on and on about this so called 'real life' stuff. But thats not the point of this post.
Ok, it was alittle exaggerated. Actually, comparing RL to a game is dumb. I was trying to approach an idea, but failed miserablely, especially since RL BH's dont usually kill their mark. They are more like cops without politics. Anyway, dumb approach. Let me try a different way.
It is OK for you, just don't let your nemesis have the power to beat it.
Its not even almost about that. As I mentioned earlier I'm not a Jedi. And there are BH's that do have the power to beat it. So if there are BH's that have the power to beat it. What does that mean? (Oh you said they were liars) Then again you said you have killed knights also... Here's how it boils down. If others players can beat Jedi Knights and you can beat Jedi Knights and they increase BH's power. Where does that land BH's? If BH's are better than regular professions, so much as to kill someone in 3 seconds, and they are increased, why be anything but a BH?
ATM, I believe anything + MDef is FOTM. And we all know about FOTM. I know, I am a MBH/MRifle. That too appears to be FOTM. My generalization is that since 9/10 fights will be against MDef + something, then we need the stuff to AID us in beating them. Of course, it should come down to the player, and not the toon. The template isnt everything, but it would be nice if I could take one of these on. The Knight I killed, was not MDef. Not sure what he was, but it was not MDef. I cannot solo a MDef. I have tried. Even with Ruby + 1250 stim d's, which seem to help me heal, I cannot outlast their force before I lose my action bar. And I am willing to bet that MBH's everywhere have this problem. It isnt heals, it is the action that gets em.
Obi Wan was obviously very powerful... but Jango was very well equipped.
I'm sure Jango could have had every piece of equipment in the Universe and still failed against Obi Wan, if not for 1 thing. He knew his abilities and was prepared. It's not about 'equipment', it's not about having 'mitigations' or having the right 'skills', it is about being prepared and knowing. Germany in WWII had superior equipment and failed, why? They overestimated their powers and overestended them.
As someone mentioned earlier your template is a 'glass cannon', full of sound and fury; signifying nothing. When push comes to shove, you cant heal. Combat is a war of attrition and quite frankly you have nothing left unless you kill them quickly.
As mentioned earlier, my heals arent the problem. At least not yet. I use ruby + 1250 stim d's. It is my action, and all the pups in the world cant beat the action bug that eats my bar to nothingness. That is why I hate 20 or 30 min battles.
If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu
Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. - Sun Tzu
Now go back to my original post and look what I've said. I agree that giving BH's assault armour was kinda stupid. As a tank, why dont the get Battle Armour? To me that seems logical. I'm not arguing that theres some silly things in BH. What im arguing is increasing BH's on the whole because certain templates can't beat certain templates in Jedi. It's a chess match played by the Dev's A beats B, B is beaten by D. If you increase BH's because they can't beat defenders, while they easily beat non-defenders, where does that go? BH's roll over anything but a defender, thus either:
a) making Master Defender a pre-requisite for being a Jedi, which means certain templates of BH can't beat defender
b) makes everyone in BH the same template or
c) those BH's complaining they cant beat Jedi with their tools and they want more
d) people complaining for a reduction in Jedi saying Jedi rule the game and nobody can kill them.
e) all of the above
Sound familiar?
I agree, even by wording of my posts, that MBH should not be able to beat ALL just by template alone. I would like to see this though...
I would love to see an MBH take 220-250 points to Master. Make it a level 80 character single mastery.
I would love to see traps, certs for any armor type, explosives, the use of any weapon type. As far as technology goes, the ability to use it all (for a cost, of course, ie-- 220+ SP to master). I would like to see us have high defenses, high mitigation, and superior offensive capability.We should be able to craft booby traps, bombs, snares and stuff like that.This should be something earned by means of the grind, which should somehow encompass every area of the basic professions, scout, artisan, medic, brawler, and ranged. Having a difficult and long grind, much like jedi, mightadd a hint of respect for the profession. As far as what we have.
Now you see where I am coming from?
Message Edited by Adrasteia on 07-06-2005 03:52 PM
I knew where you were coming from, from the beginning 
Sure I agree with you on your point of making MBH take 220-250 or being a single level 80 mastery. However, that being said unless 1 or 2 things happen:
1) Making their offensive skills apply only to Jedi
2) Make dabling in impossible
Because still if you dont do those 2 things, and MBH becomes stronger, it unbalances the whole playing field, thus making everyone become a BH to compete. And still, a question remains. How strong does this new BH class become?
a) Is it strong enough so that only the best BH's can kill the strongest Jedi? If thats the case not every BH is going to be able to kill a Jedi, thus leading to complaining that BH is not strong enough and needs to be increased or Jedi need to be nerfed etc.
b) Is it so strong that the normal average Joe BH can kill the strongest Jedi? If so, then the best of the best BH's will absolutely roll over Jedi and thus BH becomes the new alpha profession. Why be anything else other than BH?
c) It is so strong that every BH that is a BH can kill the strongest Jedi? You can see what that would lead to.
d) Also Strong as opposed to what? Strong apposed to a Master Defender? So that leads to BH's rolling over non Master Defenders. Making Master Defender a prerequisite. Thus leading to point a.
It's a strange silly thing balance is. Being a coder on a MUD i've had to look at things like this. It's not as easy as you think. Everyone is not the same player, and nobody wants to lose. So no matter how strong you make something, some people will not do well with it others will seem godly with it and everyone one of them will complain. No matter how weak you make something, some people will excel with it making it look stronger than what it really is and others will make it look like the most pityful thing that has ever been created. The strongest profession is not defined by skills, but by the player playing it.
Oh yea the action bug sucks major arsnic. Whoever came up with it and at the same time said it made combat faster and more responsive needs to be kicked in the hiney
Message Edited by Adrasteia on 07-06-2005 06:39 PM