Bounty Hunter Archive

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A_Lamer wrote:

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Bergalad wrote:

I will never understand the irrational hatred BH's seem programed to feel against Jedi. This idea is pointless, not to demean the effort you put into coming up with it. Why is it a BH's job to find ways to penalize Jedi? Yes, we get our missions, kill them and they lose XP. The XP loss is a BY-PRODUCT of what we do, it should not be the intent of our mission. If you're a BH just to cause Jedi pain (lose XP) then I submit that you are a closet griefer and not a Bounty Hunter.

You can hate that Jedi ruined the game. You should hate more the SOE busted it after Pub 10. Take your hatred and anger, get your mission, kill your mark, and collect your money. That's what we do, not worry about how we can screw another profession over for no reason.

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Leatherneck is a jedi, who as far as I can tell just like you has a BH alt. (I may be confusing his alt with that of another poster) This isn't some "ZOMG NERF TEH JEDAI" rant, its a well thought out suggestion on how to:

• Add RP realism.
  


• Resolve jedi gank squads in PVP from never disappearing, since as it stands they need only zerg back onto the battlefield to restore the group to working order.
  


• Add penalty without further weakening the jedi.
  


• Prevent AFK grinding to a certain degree (They can still get through gimped, BUT if they do they'll get back on the terminals, and a BH may pull their mission while they're gimped)
  


• Keep the jedi out of sight a bit more, thus making this game bareble.
  

Believe it or not, not everything posted on this board is designed to destroy any fun a jedi could possibly ever have ever.

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The MBH is my main always has been/will be.

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Bergalad wrote:
I read it again, and still all I see is a post by an old-school BH like me who should know better than to try to screw with other professions instead of fighting for his own. I recognize that you put effort into coming up with the idea, and while that is meritorious I don't see why it's necessary to implement something that is all negatives for one class and all positives for another. We don't need to come up with new ways to try and hurt the Jedi. What we need is to continue to improve THIS profession and strive to make it viable without diluding it further.

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It IS positive for Jedi.

No more exp loss. That's huge. And it benefits both paddies and Knights. No more grinding out of a -10 mil exp hole just to change your template. No more "OMG, I'm 380k in debt. I'll never finish my template!".

Less griping about Jedi "ruining" the GCW is nothing BUT a positive for Jedi.

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Bergalad wrote:

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A_Lamer wrote:

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Bergalad wrote:

I will never understand the irrational hatred BH's seem programed to feel against Jedi. This idea is pointless, not to demean the effort you put into coming up with it. Why is it a BH's job to find ways to penalize Jedi? Yes, we get our missions, kill them and they lose XP. The XP loss is a BY-PRODUCT of what we do, it should not be the intent of our mission. If you're a BH just to cause Jedi pain (lose XP) then I submit that you are a closet griefer and not a Bounty Hunter.

You can hate that Jedi ruined the game. You should hate more the SOE busted it after Pub 10. Take your hatred and anger, get your mission, kill your mark, and collect your money. That's what we do, not worry about how we can screw another profession over for no reason.

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Leatherneck is a jedi, who as far as I can tell just like you has a BH alt. (I may be confusing his alt with that of another poster) This isn't some "ZOMG NERF TEH JEDAI" rant, its a well thought out suggestion on how to:

• Add RP realism.
  
• Resolve jedi gank squads in PVP from never disappearing, since as it stands they need only zerg back onto the battlefield to restore the group to working order.
  
• Add penalty without further weakening the jedi.
  
• Prevent AFK grinding to a certain degree (They can still get through gimped, BUT if they do they'll get back on the terminals, and a BH may pull their mission while they're gimped)
  
• Keep the jedi out of sight a bit more, thus making this game bareble.
  

Believe it or not, not everything posted on this board is designed to destroy any fun a jedi could possibly ever have ever.

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The MBH is my main always has been/will be.

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Thats wonderful, you still don't realize that BH is the strongest non force sensitive profession available however. Duelist stance doesn't work only on jedi, and its basicly become a free CoB for ranged classes. We provide insanely advantagous general bonuses for any ranged profession we take to complement it, and most importantly we have the strongest attack in the game (arguably legshot is just as powerful, however it can't crit) as well as the only ranged KD. We also have stun and dizzy in a single shot, a DOT, and a blind to further complement us. If we continue to make OURSELVES better, then we're just going to be another jedi but without the grind, and those who don't give a damn about BH will cry nerf as well. This suggestion doesn't even weaken jedi, they have the exact same strength as before, just a risk to dying that isn't even a sliver as bad as permadeath, something all jedi once had to endure.

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Bergalad wrote:

Long ago, I was one of the voices AGAINST reducing the skill point cost for MBH. I am still against it. Back when we had white marks and the LLC grind was incredibly painful, MBH meant something. Now it is a means to an end, a support class. I don't need a lecture on what a BH is or should be.

This idea does hamper Jedi in PvP. One death and that's the end of PvP for a few hours. A MBH/CM/whatever is able to take templated Jedi now, especially in a mass PvP environment. Do you think they should be penalized as well? Of course you don't. The XP loss system is fine. What BH's should be worried about is getting droids to work on wookie world (among other bugs) and a lot of these "frustrations" will go away for our profession.

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Oh laffo, so you're trying to apply your "I walked uphill both ways in the snow" crap now? I don't care if you had it harder than me or if BH could hold its own while requiring so many skill points you couldn't even take novice medic. I don't care if you had buggy exp and had to wait 10 minutes for a shuttle. That time is over and isn't coming back. Times change, and so do professions. You also seem to conveniently fail to remember that back then jedi were so strong you needed a group of 20 BH to kill them. Jedi are becoming a dime a gross. Whos fault is that? Well, yours for one, but thats besides the point. When an alpha class becomes the majority on every server, they need to be weakened. And when a MBH (no other professions) can take on a master pistoleer/rifleman/carbs without any other professions, it is far from a support profession, and it is far from weak. As I said, if we only focus on increasing our own strength, then we will, in the end, be the ones who everyone will cry about. Instead what we SHOULD be doing is trying to bring ALL non jedi/crafter up to par, since it is us BH who have the skillpoints now to take those professions as well.

Again, I honestly don't care if it took you months to grind out the original iteration of the BH skill tree. Your time is gone, deal with it and stop stroking your beard and rocking back and forth in your chair.

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Dookseid wrote:

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Dlek_Krego wrote:

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RebsBeware wrote:

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twiafu wrote:

Once again Leather has put forth some effort and posted a very good idea! I really like the idea! Beyond the bolded line above, I think this would make large roaming groups the norm. Would be nice if this idea could be applied to the BH/Jedi dynamic.

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Dont know bout your server, but we have 4 hour long PvP fights every night on ours, 30 or so a side, at least half jedi. If half the pvpers on our server were told, on death (which happens to most of us 3-4 times a night, doesnt matter how good you are, some people are just too sneaky at random turret placing in the middle of a fight) that they couldnt play for 2 hours, then there would be uproar.

I said I like the idea, its good in a lot of ways, just totally impractical. It makes sense, but this is a game, that people pay for. Maybe in the new system, with no group Bhing, and no specific name picking (/sniff) if it only applied to a BH death, and not a PvP one, that would be good., cos it will be very, very rare.

Depends on what does happen with the name thing tho for bh missions. If we do learn the name before getting to the mark then this system would be easy to abuse, if the terms list only online and which faction jedi you would have a very good chance of getting a jedi in a pvp groups mission, and once you know who it is, it would be easy for factional fighting bh to tell the pvpers who their mark is, get that mark incapped thru pvp, then allow the bh to db, thus taking that enemy out of the fight for the rest of the night. A rapid 5 man bh group constantly going through missions in this way could remove a lot of players from the nights play, and thats a little harsh on the jedi

/eathat self - unfair on the jedi? i said that?

/suicide

P.S.

It wasnt gibberish, it was an ironic and sardonic comment on the guy's forum sig - it says take anything thats easy, then he whines about an easy I win button....

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It's a good comprimise between the Jedi who want to fight the in the GCW, and those who want us removed from it. Is it not?

Message Edited by Dlek_Krego on 07-09-2005 05:28 AM

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If you look at it, it doesn't remove you from a nights play... You have an alt don't you. If your Jedi gets killed, log in your alt and rejoin the battle with the rest of the ranged... but oh no.... you won't be Mr. Uber.. Dang, keep forgetting that. I get tired of Jedi forgetting that they have an alt that can still participate in stuff...

Is it against Jedi code or something to use an alt for anything other than helping their Jedi?? Like to have fun or something???

Not ranting, I'm just saying......

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I do.

My alt doesn't help my jedi in the least. I have fun with him. I'm mastering professions I've never mastered before to check it out. Currently, I'm stuck on MCH. I love it so far.

So, if it's against some jedi code, and it's wrong to do, then I don't wanna be right!!

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Dookseid wrote:

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Dlek_Krego wrote:

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RebsBeware wrote:

*long replies snipped*

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If you look at it, it doesn't remove you from a nights play... You have an alt don't you. If your Jedi gets killed, log in your alt and rejoin the battle with the rest of the ranged... but oh no.... you won't be Mr. Uber.. Dang, keep forgetting that. I get tired of Jedi forgetting that they have an alt that can still participate in stuff...

Is it against Jedi code or something to use an alt for anything other than helping their Jedi?? Like to have fun or something???

Not ranting, I'm just saying......

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No flame intened at all Dook!

I can only speak for myself when I say, I did not strive to become Jedi to play my alt. Yes, I do have an alt, and he also active in the GCW in a support role,same as my Jedi. I NEVER decided to try for Jedi to be 'uber'. I play a support role as Jedi and love every minute of it and the Jedi AND regular toons I play with are happy that I am there. And Dook, I have become tired in being told that I have an alt to play. But people make general blanket statements based on the Jedi they interact with and that is not the whole story.

I may be the odd ball here, but my alt has no interaction with my Jedi. He does not buff, does not earn cash, does not do a thing for my Jedi.

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A_Lamer wrote:

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Bergalad wrote:

Long ago, I was one of the voices AGAINST reducing the skill point cost for MBH. I am still against it. Back when we had white marks and the LLC grind was incredibly painful, MBH meant something. Now it is a means to an end, a support class. I don't need a lecture on what a BH is or should be.

This idea does hamper Jedi in PvP. One death and that's the end of PvP for a few hours. A MBH/CM/whatever is able to take templated Jedi now, especially in a mass PvP environment. Do you think they should be penalized as well? Of course you don't. The XP loss system is fine. What BH's should be worried about is getting droids to work on wookie world (among other bugs) and a lot of these "frustrations" will go away for our profession.

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Oh laffo, so you're trying to apply your "I walked uphill both ways in the snow" crap now? I don't care if you had it harder than me or if BH could hold its own while requiring so many skill points you couldn't even take novice medic. I don't care if you had buggy exp and had to wait 10 minutes for a shuttle. That time is over and isn't coming back. Times change, and so do professions. You also seem to conveniently fail to remember that back then jedi were so strong you needed a group of 20 BH to kill them. Jedi are becoming a dime a gross. Whos fault is that? Well, yours for one, but thats besides the point. When an alpha class becomes the majority on every server, they need to be weakened. And when a MBH (no other professions) can take on a master pistoleer/rifleman/carbs without any other professions, it is far from a support profession, and it is far from weak. As I said, if we only focus on increasing our own strength, then we will, in the end, be the ones who everyone will cry about. Instead what we SHOULD be doing is trying to bring ALL non jedi/crafter up to par, since it is us BH who have the skillpoints now to take those professions as well.

Again, I honestly don't care if it took you months to grind out the original iteration of the BH skill tree. Your time is gone, deal with it and stop stroking your beard and rocking back and forth in your chair.

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I never said you should care about my history, just like I shouldn't care that you make no sense at all and have reading comprehension problems. You want to focus on one thing like a baby seeing a shiny object, so be it.

The more we call for "fixes" to other professions, the more they want some for us. Our efforts are better spent pressuring the Devs to fix the bugs and problems (like the afore mentioned droid issue you chose to ignore) and not try to weaken or damage the play time of other classes. The plan described in the this thread does that by ending PvP after one death. I can see some merits in parts of the idea, however there are some specific problems that are prohibitive for Jedi playability.

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

Currently, there is no penalty associated with dying for those who have finished their template. Additionally, Paddies cangain back exp at a pretty decent rate in a good group.

I'm not a big fan of taking things away from players, but I have an idea that would accomplish both. So I figured I'd ask you, the esteemed opposition, your opinion first.

The concept is very simple...you clone and it takes time to re-acclimate yourself to using the Force. You've just suffered a major shock to your system (that's putting dying and cloning rather mildly) and settling back into your connection with all living things shouldn't be as simple as pulling on your paddy robes.

"Now Leatherneck, how do you do that? How do you represent being reconnected with the universe in a game like this?" Well I'm glad you asked.

A Jedi's connection to the force is represented in two ways. Force bar and force skills. So how about this scheme? It'll sound kinda complicated at first but the concept is simple once it's fully explained.

Every skillpoint you have is worth 30 seconds. Let's take two example paddies and use them in demonstrating how this would work. One that's 100 skill points and one that's 226 skill points.

You would have force WOUNDS that suck up your force bar. These wounds would go away at a rate based on your skill points when you died. So, for our first example, the 100 skill point Paddie, their force bar would be fully 'repaired' in 50 minutes (100 skill points * 30 seconds). For Mr 226k, it'd be 113 minutes.

That's half the equation of death penalty.

The other half is equally simple.

When you clone, you ONLY have access to any first tier skills you have earned in Jedi. When you have healed 25% of your force wounds, you get access to the second tier. 50% the third tier. 75% the 4th tier. Rounded up.

So, in our two examples:

The 100k Paddy would earn back their second skill box at 13 minutes after dying. The next tier would be usable at 25 minutes. The next tier would be useable at 38 minutes.

The 226k paddy would be able to use second tier at 29 minutes, tier three at 57 minutes and tier four at 85 minutes.

"But Leatherneck, I don't WANT to have a character I'm paying for that I can't play". Good news then...you won't be paying for a character you can't play. You CAN still play your character while reconnecting to the force. You just won't be playing at full potential. That's how it's different from the blue glowie system proposed some time ago.

Oh, and for FRS ranked Jedi, add time based on their current rank. Say...15 minutes per rank achieved. If you're a Jedi Master, it should take alot to put you down, and it should be a memorable occaision.

Oh, and I forgot to mention.

NO TIME would tick off your penalty if you're in a building of any kind. Dungeon? Fine. POI? Fine. Avatar Space platform? Fine. JTL? Hell no. Ranger/Scout camp? No.

Oh, and if you die while in penalty mode, you get 50% of the new penalty tacked on.

Just a rough sketch but the idea is easy to follow. Dying should cost you real time.

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I am going to finish reading the other 2 pages, but I like the system.

I too started a thread in the Jedi forums a while back about ideas to take away EXP from paddies but not via BH... The idea being to slow the progress from paddy to full template... However, I like you idea better. It not only works on paddies but also full templates.

I would only like to add, the timer should only tick down with in-game time. No logging out and coming back in "x" time for you toon's abilities back. Not only are you still able to play your Jedi (people cant say they are paying $15 a month for time spend that prevents them from playing) the also have their 2nd toon.

Good idea

/clap

make us more powerfull and I would consider this. Altho if a enhacner revives themself as they used the force they never really lost connection to it so they should be allowed to carry on

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Dookseid wrote:

Is it against Jedi code or something to use an alt for anything other than helping their Jedi?? Like to have fun or something???

Not ranting, I'm just saying......

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Bergalad wrote:

I never said you should care about my history, just like I shouldn't care that you make no sense at all and have reading comprehension problems. You want to focus on one thing like a baby seeing a shiny object, so be it.

The more we call for "fixes" to other professions, the more they want some for us. Our efforts are better spent pressuring the Devs to fix the bugs and problems (like the afore mentioned droid issue you chose to ignore) and not try to weaken or damage the play time of other classes. The plan described in the this thread does that by ending PvP after one death. I can see some merits in parts of the idea, however there are some specific problems that are prohibitive for Jedi playability.

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Then don't bring it up. Simple. I'm tired of the grandpa pipe stories.

Timezones, pal. Hard to comprehend something or make sense if its already morning. Regardless however I do feel I covered most of what you were saying and then some, so whether you lack reading comprehension yourself is of no concern to me.

And you have the audacity to bring up making sense? I've stated if we REALLY want to bring balance we need to focus on ALL professions, and I stated that we need to bring them up, not down. You're making it out as if I'm only crying nerf on jedi (with the baby crap) and then suggesting that somehow people would actually call nerf on us if we managed to get them up to par. (commandos, squad leaders, and CH especially) Or at least thats what I got by "fixes" with the quotation marks. If thats not what you mean't, then perhaps you need to overhaul your writing as much as I need to sleep for a couple hours.

I agree, however the devs never actually listen to anything the player base says anyway, so whats the harm in making this suggestion? How is it being implemented in a year on top of all the current bugs and many more new ones going to shatter your world? And the droids? Yeah, I'm fairly certain considering they haven't even addressed it despite EVERY bh and many jedi complaining that its working as intended until we start stroking out, and they decide to change it. THATS why I didn't address it.

I don't see how keeping the stupid jedi from AFK grinding full template in a week or zerg rushing (KEKEKE) the GCW after they die is somehow going to be a nerf for jedi. As someone else stated, you have an alt, if you die, use it to PVP. Then you can zerg all you want.

You got me there, I couldn't give a damn about jedi playability. Refer to alts.

Hope the color coding isn't annoying btw, didn't feel like typing out long blockquote strings. More used to typing out font color.

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A_Lamer wrote:

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Bergalad wrote:

I never said you should care about my history, just like I shouldn't care that you make no sense at all and have reading comprehension problems. You want to focus on one thing like a baby seeing a shiny object, so be it.

The more we call for "fixes" to other professions, the more they want some for us. Our efforts are better spent pressuring the Devs to fix the bugs and problems (like the afore mentioned droid issue you chose to ignore) and not try to weaken or damage the play time of other classes. The plan described in the this thread does that by ending PvP after one death. I can see some merits in parts of the idea, however there are some specific problems that are prohibitive for Jedi playability.

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Then don't bring it up. Simple. I'm tired of the grandpa pipe stories.

Timezones, pal. Hard to comprehend something or make sense if its already morning. Regardless however I do feel I covered most of what you were saying and then some, so whether you lack reading comprehension yourself is of no concern to me.

And you have the audacity to bring up making sense? I've stated if we REALLY want to bring balance we need to focus on ALL professions, and I stated that we need to bring them up, not down. You're making it out as if I'm only crying nerf on jedi (with the baby crap) and then suggesting that somehow people would actually call nerf on us if we managed to get them up to par. (commandos, squad leaders, and CH especially) Or at least thats what I got by "fixes" with the quotation marks. If thats not what you mean't, then perhaps you need to overhaul your writing as much as I need to sleep for a couple hours.

I agree, however the devs never actually listen to anything the player base says anyway, so whats the harm in making this suggestion? How is it being implemented in a year on top of all the current bugs and many more new ones going to shatter your world? And the droids? Yeah, I'm fairly certain considering they haven't even addressed it despite EVERY bh and many jedi complaining that its working as intended until we start stroking out, and they decide to change it. THATS why I didn't address it.

I don't see how keeping the stupid jedi from AFK grinding full template in a week or zerg rushing (KEKEKE) the GCW after they die is somehow going to be a nerf for jedi. As someone else stated, you have an alt, if you die, use it to PVP. Then you can zerg all you want.

You got me there, I couldn't give a damn about jedi playability. Refer to alts.

Hope the color coding isn't annoying btw, didn't feel like typing out long blockquote strings. More used to typing out font color.

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At least you are typing in actual paragraphs now, so this discussion is helping

Fix the droids and the AFK grinders go away. Barring that, make wookie world mean something. Have the payouts tripled if the mark is killed there. Have the jedi lose double xp for dying there. Make the effort to track Jedi on that planet worthwhile for the BH until the droids are fixed.

My Jedi's alt is a Merchant/Shipwright/Armorsmith. I am not PvP'ing on him, nor should I have to. I know you hate the "grampa" stuff, but I didn't unlock pre Pub 9 so I could be penalized because of SOE short-sightedness. I agree the Village stuff was a massive mistake, and I think that ways to slow down the unlock process to thin out the herd so to speak. Realistically however, the harm's been done. SOE has mentioned moving Jedi into their own "system" for PvP, so possibly that will solve the problem. Most of the good ideas that BH's and Jedi had were disregarded a while back for what I can only assume was to increase SOE's profit margin. I don't see them changing a system in a way that will inhibit the sales of the game (and yes I feel reducing Jedi will do that for SOE, not that I am opposed to it).