Bounty Hunter Archive

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Bergalad wrote:

At least you are typing in actual paragraphs now, so this discussion is helping

Fix the droids and the AFK grinders go away. Barring that, make wookie world mean something. Have the payouts tripled if the mark is killed there. Have the jedi lose double xp for dying there. Make the effort to track Jedi on that planet worthwhile for the BH until the droids are fixed.

My Jedi's alt is a Merchant/Shipwright/Armorsmith. I am not PvP'ing on him, nor should I have to. I know you hate the "grampa" stuff, but I didn't unlock pre Pub 9 so I could be penalized because of SOE short-sightedness. I agree the Village stuff was a massive mistake, and I think that ways to slow down the unlock process to thin out the herd so to speak. Realistically however, the harm's been done. SOE has mentioned moving Jedi into their own "system" for PvP, so possibly that will solve the problem. Most of the good ideas that BH's and Jedi had were disregarded a while back for what I can only assume was to increase SOE's profit margin. I don't see them changing a system in a way that will inhibit the sales of the game (and yes I feel reducing Jedi will do that for SOE, not that I am opposed to it).

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Bah, paragraphs. If thats all that would have appeased you, then I shouldn't have doubted myself. Sometimes I get nervous that I have 20 2 sentence paragraphs regardless of whether they all cover different or reletively different subjects. I can't stand that either.

All of the solutions you mentioned for kash though are things that have been brought up (minus a couple) and ignored just like suggestions to gate the jedi at the village/FS stage. Thats why theres never harm in bringing up another. Voicing your opinion against the ideas of course isn't treasonous, but obviously there will be the idiots like me with a counter arguement that goes on for forever.

If your alts a crafter, whats your BH then? a second account? Or are you one of those weirdo hybrids? ;p Its true that some peoples' alts aren't combat ready, but then its also true that some people pay for no less than 6 accounts at a time. (Why SOE doesn't just charge us a dollar extra a month for an additional char slot I'll never know.. Currently trying to unlock so I can get paddy and my char slot, then drop everything related to jedi minus the hunting.)

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A_Lamer wrote:

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Bergalad wrote:

At least you are typing in actual paragraphs now, so this discussion is helping

Fix the droids and the AFK grinders go away. Barring that, make wookie world mean something. Have the payouts tripled if the mark is killed there. Have the jedi lose double xp for dying there. Make the effort to track Jedi on that planet worthwhile for the BH until the droids are fixed.

My Jedi's alt is a Merchant/Shipwright/Armorsmith. I am not PvP'ing on him, nor should I have to. I know you hate the "grampa" stuff, but I didn't unlock pre Pub 9 so I could be penalized because of SOE short-sightedness. I agree the Village stuff was a massive mistake, and I think that ways to slow down the unlock process to thin out the herd so to speak. Realistically however, the harm's been done. SOE has mentioned moving Jedi into their own "system" for PvP, so possibly that will solve the problem. Most of the good ideas that BH's and Jedi had were disregarded a while back for what I can only assume was to increase SOE's profit margin. I don't see them changing a system in a way that will inhibit the sales of the game (and yes I feel reducing Jedi will do that for SOE, not that I am opposed to it).

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Bah, paragraphs. If thats all that would have appeased you, then I shouldn't have doubted myself. Sometimes I get nervous that I have 20 2 sentence paragraphs regardless of whether they all cover different or reletively different subjects. I can't stand that either.

All of the solutions you mentioned for kash though are things that have been brought up (minus a couple) and ignored just like suggestions to gate the jedi at the village/FS stage. Thats why theres never harm in bringing up another. Voicing your opinion against the ideas of course isn't treasonous, but obviously there will be the idiots like me with a counter arguement that goes on for forever.

If your alts a crafter, whats your BH then? a second account? Or are you one of those weirdo hybrids? ;p Its true that some peoples' alts aren't combat ready, but then its also true that some people pay for no less than 6 accounts at a time. (Why SOE doesn't just charge us a dollar extra a month for an additional char slot I'll never know.. Currently trying to unlock so I can get paddy and my char slot, then drop everything related to jedi minus the hunting.)

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This is the account I had at launch. Got the jedi grind account two months later. Between Lelu (gf) and I we have a lot of accounts yeah , but they are all for different things. I support a price break on multiple accounts heh, but of course that goes against SOE's bottom line. Many Jedi use alts for PvE and their Jedi for PvP, so forcing them to either sit out of PvP or respec their alts is a little rough to me. Of course I am not opposed to ideas or opinions, but I am leery of the constant "hey do this to xxx profession" stuff. Ideally, SOE would take 10 BH's and 10 Jedi, lock them in a room with the Devs, and hammer out a reasonable solution to this whole mess. I would like to see the entire BH/Jedi dynamic removed or lessened (via player bounties?) so the tension between the professions can end somewhat.

what is the point of giving knights penalties? I mean they grinded paddy and all that good stuff. Knights their reward. And really what is the point of this whole thing? Oh the char cant play for an hour. If they put this in the jedi would cry that they can't play cause they won't be able to do anything. I mean in that hour they're down they could grind out some of the XP they lost in this system

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black666label wrote:
what is the point of giving knights penalties? I mean they grinded paddy and all that good stuff. Knights their reward. And really what is the point of this whole thing? Oh the char cant play for an hour.[But they CAN play that character. Just not at optimumefficiency. And they haven't lost anything but time. They haven't even lost effort. They don't have to re-grind. They don't have to do much of anything. They can just find a nice place and socialize if they want. Or they can go help out younger characters getting some exp. A fully templated Knight at half efficiency isn't exactly helpless or worthless. I know many people in MMOG's feel like "OMG, if it's not the BEST it's WORTHLESS". Sad, but wrong.]If they put this in the jedi would cry that they can't play cause they won't be able to do anything. I mean in that hour they're down they could grind out some of the XP they lost in this system [Exactly. That's the point. They COULD go back out and grind (in the case of Paddies). They just won't be able to do it as efficiently as they were for a while. It'd slow them down while not taking anything they've already earned away. It'd offer them a chance to make a difference in a PVP defense of their town, without losing multiple hours of effort.

And believe it or not, I started down this path of thought because a Knight specifically asked if I could come up with a penalty system for templated Jedi. Some of us are aware that operating without penalties is going to eventually lead to a dillution of Jedi prowess. This is a system of true loss (time) that is palatable to me. Some other Jedi have weighed in on the subject as a penalty that's "Acceptable".

The problem with the Blue Glowie system is that you were almost powerless in such a state. Though, you could scout and provide valuable intel. The problem with THAT is they were already invulnerable in such a state.

This is a compromise. It costs the Jedi time, as the current exp loss system does. It has a sting, as the current exp loss system does. Yet it doesn't make the player completely useless.]

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Re the original post...

This is not a bad idea if you believe that penalties need to apply to Jedi in order to maintain their alpha-class status and avoid further efforts to limit their power (nerf, balance, whatever you like to call it).

However, the current XP loss system that is in place is specifically NOT designed to be a risk/reward system. It's designed to address the credit-exploiting antics of BH killing Jedi and splitting the money. There was a period of time in 2004 when bounty payouts were nerfed to 15k because a handful of people had exploited the repeat-kill potential and reaped a handsome profit. To limit the chances of this happening until a more suitable deterrent could be devised, they nerfed the payout. After the expected BH outcry about the payout, SOE implemented the double-XP loss system which is currently in place. This was in the summer of 2004, the summer of The Village, and by this point had less to do with limiting Jedi population and more to do with preventing exploitation.

Now, there are no longer any death penalties except for a BH kill for Jedi. There is no longer any risk for whatever rewards exist - the BH xp loss is just a vestigial remainder of the need to prevent exploitation. SOE understands, and has understood for months, that they cannot limit the number of Jedi artificially, so they have essentially stopped trying to do so. I wouldn't be surprised (or upset, either) if soon after the Pub 20 system is in place the XP loss is removed completely since the anonymity of the missions is enough prevention against exploitation.

Whatever anyone's opinion may be about timeline, canon and whatnot, the fact is that the horse has already left the barn, and limiting the number of visible Jedi is an impossibility. Enough people like to play them, and the game has to find ways to support those people.

What that means in terms of the intention of your post, however, is that just as you probably can expect to see XP loss removed entirely, since prophylactic measures to cap Jedi population have been slowly removed, you should also be prepared for further attempts to balance the Jedi skillset.

While I'd argue personally that they're not altogether that unbalanced as they currently stand, I say that as a Bounty Hunter only and not someone who regularly engages in GCW PvP. At some point, if enough people continue to complain about "Jedi ruining the GCW", it seems inevitable for there to be some further reduction in power. I know that's what you're trying to prevent from happening, but I think at somepoint you'll get the official word that the "reward" for your grind is a glowstick and second character slot.

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MikeHeXt wrote:
No. Exp debt is no free ride.

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A full-templated knight could be 4 million xp in the hole, and they are still a full-templated knight. Doesn't sound like a penalty to me...

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A_Lamer wrote:

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Bergalad wrote:

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A_Lamer wrote:

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Bergalad wrote:

I will never understand the irrational hatred BH's seem programed to feel against Jedi. This idea is pointless, not to demean the effort you put into coming up with it. Why is it a BH's job to find ways to penalize Jedi? Yes, we get our missions, kill them and they lose XP. The XP loss is a BY-PRODUCT of what we do, it should not be the intent of our mission. If you're a BH just to cause Jedi pain (lose XP) then I submit that you are a closet griefer and not a Bounty Hunter.

You can hate that Jedi ruined the game. You should hate more the SOE busted it after Pub 10. Take your hatred and anger, get your mission, kill your mark, and collect your money. That's what we do, not worry about how we can screw another profession over for no reason.

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Leatherneck is a jedi, who as far as I can tell just like you has a BH alt. (I may be confusing his alt with that of another poster) This isn't some "ZOMG NERF TEH JEDAI" rant, its a well thought out suggestion on how to:

• Add RP realism.
  


• Resolve jedi gank squads in PVP from never disappearing, since as it stands they need only zerg back onto the battlefield to restore the group to working order.
  


• Add penalty without further weakening the jedi.
  


• Prevent AFK grinding to a certain degree (They can still get through gimped, BUT if they do they'll get back on the terminals, and a BH may pull their mission while they're gimped)
  


• Keep the jedi out of sight a bit more, thus making this game bareble.
  

Believe it or not, not everything posted on this board is designed to destroy any fun a jedi could possibly ever have ever.

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The MBH is my main always has been/will be.

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Thats wonderful, you still don't realize that BH is the strongest non force sensitive profession available however. Duelist stance doesn't work only on jedi, and its basicly become a free CoB for ranged classes. We provide insanely advantagous general bonuses for any ranged profession we take to complement it, and most importantly we have the strongest attack in the game (arguably legshot is just as powerful, however it can't crit) as well as the only ranged KD. We also have stun and dizzy in a single shot, a DOT, and a blind to further complement us. If we continue to make OURSELVES better, then we're just going to be another jedi but without the grind, and those who don't give a damn about BH will cry nerf as well. This suggestion doesn't even weaken jedi, they have the exact same strength as before, just a risk to dying that isn't even a sliver as bad as permadeath, something all jedi once had to endure.

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Long ago, I was one of the voices AGAINST reducing the skill point cost for MBH. I am still against it. Back when we had white marks and the LLC grind was incredibly painful, MBH meant something. Now it is a means to an end, a support class. I don't need a lecture on what a BH is or should be.

This idea does hamper Jedi in PvP. One death and that's the end of PvP for a few hours. A MBH/CM/whatever is able to take templated Jedi now, especially in a mass PvP environment. Do you think they should be penalized as well? Of course you don't. The XP loss system is fine. What BH's should be worried about is getting droids to work on wookie world (among other bugs) and a lot of these "frustrations" will go away for our profession.

I actually like this idea a lot. I think the timers are a bit much given the likely hood of mass jedi killing when PvP comes around, but lowering the max time to 1 hour wouldn't be a bad deal at all. It would definately make the GCW a lot more interesting and fun. It would also encourage more cautious playing on the part of jedi all around. I also think the timer not working in structures and such is a bit extreme as well, a timer should count down no matter where you are or what you're doing. But all around a nice idea that has more advantages for EVERYONE not just one class. The penalty for jedi is in line with what the devs said jedi should be, challenging.


*****

I see a ton of complaints bout Jedi in the GCW. I guess the question BH's need to ask themselves is a simple one.

Would you rather remove a templatedJedi from GCW play for a while, or not?

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

I see a ton of complaints bout Jedi in the GCW. I guess the question BH's need to ask themselves is a simple one.

Would you rather remove a templated Jedi from GCW play for a while, or not?

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Actually, I think the question Jedi need to ask themselves is will they be happy playing a character that is nifty but not spectacular.

I like this idea too! Puts a penalty on full temped chars as well.

I always wanted some sort of glowie system though. But this sounds just as good!

Message Edited by Vlamr on 07-10-2005 06:40 AM

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Celera wrote:

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

I see a ton of complaints bout Jedi in the GCW. I guess the question BH's need to ask themselves is a simple one.

Would you rather remove a templated Jedi from GCW play for a while, or not?

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Actually, I think the question Jedi need to ask themselves is will they be happy playing a character that is nifty but not spectacular.

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I'm good with nifty.