Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Bounty Hunters... what can Dev do Right Now??
zondar77
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:10 pm
#391
Removing scout from BH is just awesome...ALMOST makes me wish I had kept MBH from a few months ago
hats off to the BHers who have stuck with it
FaceInTheCrowd
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:22 pm
#392
JustG
Once upon a time getting to bounty hunter was a significant accomplishment. We had the highest prereq of any combat profession. This seemed to be designed to keep out those people who weren't dedicated to becoming bounty hunters. Now it's a joke to get there thanks to armor, buffs, etc. Dropping 3 lines of scout makes it even more of a joke.
Once upon a time we were a powerful combat profession. Up until the middle of last August the bounty hunter was a god when using underhand shot. By mid-August we had been nerfed hard with an even more severe nerf to come in September with the knockdown timers. Now, just after the one-year anniversary, our knockdowns are a joke while the TK knockdown sticks much more often and actually keeps people down. If a bounty hunter is lucky enough to get a knockdown to stick his opponent (player or NPC) gets back up faster than the bounty huntercan switch weapons. This negates most of the usefulness of the carbine line.
Once upon a time our fire DoTfrom torso shot was a powerful tool. Combined with a health pool bleed we were strong in combat, especially if we had health shot 2. Then a few months back you decided all DoT's were too powerful and nerfed them to uselessness (unless you're a combat medic...). Now torso shot is a so-so pistol special.
Once upon a time our marks were real challenges. These guys had armor, up to 80% resists, could fire off nasty specials that would 1-shot kill you even through your armor, etc. A fight with your mark was an exhilirating experience, and even more so if the mark spawned as a twin! Now the marks just have a lot of HAM, don't fire specials, don't have armor, and are generally a joke to take down. Any combat prof can do it, and all melee profs can do it faster than we can.
Once upon a time master bounty hunter was an achievement. With the exp boost it has become just as much of a joke as getting to bounty hunter. Prior to the exp boost it took a good 6 weeks to complete investigation. Now people do it in a few days to a week.
Once upon a time we were told that we wouldn't be getting player bounties for a long time to come due to the possibilities for griefing, etc. Then Jedi appeared and we were suddenly granted the ability to hunt other players, whether they wanted to be hunted or not. Since then these missions have been bugged in one form or another. Now the only thing getting attention in the bounty hunter profession is these missions. They were supposed to be the gravy, not the meat; however, now they're being treated like they are the meat....
What can dev do for us now?
Don't cheapen our accomplishments by taking out a major portion of the prereqs. You've already cheapened them enough by that massive exp boost... You're already telling Jedi they should be more powerful than most other profs, why not make us a touch more powerful than an elite prof as a trade-off for the huge skillpoint requirement? Why not make a second bounty hunter progression line akin to the older Jedi skill progression. This would eliminate dabbling since getting to the second line would require the use of all our skill points. [This is a long term solution]
Make a decision on the Jedi missions. If it's too hard to stop griefing and exploiting just remove the missions. If you think they are worth salvaging and can get some dev time then fix them already. What I'm hearing you say though is you don't have that kind of time available. Band-aid fixes haven't been received well by any prof, so let's not slap another band-aid on a sucking chest wound. [This is a shorter term solution if the choice is to drop the missions, and a long term solution is the choice is to fix them properly]
Lose the weapon switch delay for bounty hunters. Give us a quickdraw mod that increases with level such that by master there is no weapon switch delay. No other profession needs to switch weapons the way we do to be effective. [This is a shorter term solution]
Balance bounty hunter and all ranged profs with melee. Balance out the dps (melee easily outdamages a bounty hunter), make there be actual minuses to dabbling as well as pluses, make professions have weak spots. Currently you say you would like bh to be a high offense/medium defense prof. As long as melee has huge defenses plus easily stacked state defenses there is nothing that a ranged prof can do against them. If I can't hit somebody I can't kill them. [This is a long term solution for the CB]
Change the whole Mandalorian armor quest into something a master bounty hunter might actually be able to complete. This is something that is a personal accomplishment. Bounty hunter, by design, is a more solo-oriented profession (you don't group up to do bounties), this should be reflected in our path to getting our special armor. As it currently stands a lot of bounty hunters aren't even considering the possibility of getting Mandalorian armor due to the insanity of the Death Watch bunker quest. Furthermore, there is no incentive whatsoever for master droid engineers, tailors, etc. to go there and get repeatedly killed to make an item for somebody else. This whole thing was not thought out well and doesn't serve to reward master bounty hunters at all. It's more of a slap in the face. Mandalorian armor should be obtained through a series of solo instanced quests. [Very long term solution, especially since the dev team doesn't agree with the whole concept of people soloing things any more]
G, when I started playing this game on June 30, 2003 all I wanted to do was be a bounty hunter. I looked at the prereqs and compared them to other professions and said 'I still want to do this.' When people said Investigation was terribly unpleasant I said 'I still want to do this.' I did master in November and was proud of my achievement, but since then the whole profession has gone severely downhill. I want to enjoy this game, I really do. But with every patch you give me less and less to enjoy. I don't want cheap and easy, but I want a chance to compete. Giving me another 48 skill points still doesn't allow me to build a master bounty hunter that is even close to even footing with other combat templates. Please look at other alternatives to helping us out.
Ivo_Kos
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:28 pm
#393
BlackEdge wrote:Actually in a pvp situation, these are nice things to have. The fact that a bh could use a jawa rifle (stun don't forget) in their arsenal, and that range support 4 is very nice to have (suppression 1), I think these are well suited.
Ivo_Kos wrote:
If you are going to keep BHs with very little defense, I think the weapon change timer is retarded and uncalled for. Part of the BHs skill is to be able to adjust to the situation at a moments notice...not 3-5 seconds...a fight can easily be lost in that 3-5 seconds. I also agree that the ranged support and rifle tree of Marksman are unneed requirements. If you insist on keeping these here, at least give BH a rilfe that compliments the profession well. The LLC is useless in PVP thus making that another wasted skill tree for those who choose to pursue PVP play. It would also be nice if the BH could modify their suits and weapons like a smuggler. Not all BHs are going to depend on a store bought weapon/armor. They will tinker with it somewhat.
I do like the idea of being having the Bounty Pistol line with the smuggler pistol line and also Master pistoleer...that is if thats possible...I haven't done the skill point math yet to find out though.
As a former MBH almost three times over, I can see using the Ion Rifle and agree its stun damage is great for pvp, but I would much rather spend extra points to pick up enough pistoleer for the Geo Pistol. BH gets no bonuses to Rifle making it, IMHO, a very slow and frustrating weapon to use. I have tried many times to incorporate rifles into my arsenal, but everytime I just end up relying on my scatter or laser carbine because of the bonuses I get from the profession.
Have you ever used suppression fire in PVP? I have tried using it a few times but have seen no positive results that would make me spend anymore time with it in my toolbar.
lifeisdeath
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:34 pm
#394
the BIGGEST problem with this is it makes MBH even more worthless than before!
no one that wants to be viable in PVP would think about MBH.
so lets just get rid of all requirements for everything. just give everyone 250 SP to spend as they please?
why should everyone be a cookie cutter medic?
Naevarr
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:36 pm
#395
Woot!!!!!! Here I was , ready to quit the BH profession. I may have to rethink that and see what happens now.
JustG wrote:
... There are many many things that we can do to help out your profession, given time.
Some of the things will be addressed bythe ol' "Combat Balance" mantra ... but not soon enough for you I am sure.
Other things are proving VERY difficult for us to track down. The 0 0 0 waypoint issue is quite a bear andwe are putting in still more logging tomorrow, but again, not soon enough for you I am sure.
The Jedi XP issue is requiring programming time which we don't have. We are trying to work it in, but again not soon enough for you.
We want to help out your profession as soon as possible. So that being said, as soon as we can get it through test ...
We are going to remove the Trapping, Hunting, and Survival Scout lines from the Bounty Hunter prerequisites.
This should give you and additional 48 skill points to add to the 33 you had left over for a total of 81 additional point to spend as you please.
This is something that we have been considering for a long time, and wanted to do as part of the CB, but we need you to be as effective as possible against Jedi as soon as possible. This is a start.
Your other issues are known, and in varying stages of development, but we want you to know that things are going to get better. Hopefully rapidly.
This change will be hitting Test Center tomorrow afternoon, and should be Live by Friday.
/salute
- g
Indene
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:39 pm
#396
-Xevious- wrote:BlindTyldak wrote:
I know one thing . . . if that weapon delay timer gets removed for BH's, you damn well do it for the CH's too. Our pets are OUR weapons, and we're sick of being penalized for it as you are doing to these folks.
Your pets are your weapons are they?, then you must just stand and watch while your pet fights for you, you obviously cant be shooting or swinging while your pets are tanking right, or that would mean you have 2 weapons.
Seriously, as an ex master CH, this argument is and always has been idiotic, your pets are not your weapon, they are your PETS, you choose to use them in battle, while you no doubt blast away from a safe distance with your T21 or whatever.
BTW reducing our SP requirement is a poor idea, allowing us to use a less useless proffession, in conjuction with our broken one is not in any way a fix for BH, merely a thinly veiled attempt to put down the peasants revolt and open the hunting of jedi to everyone else, all packaged to look like the devs are trying to help us, evidently some of us are dumb enough to fall for it.
FIX BH, OR AT LEAST GIVE US AN IDEA ON WHEN YOU WILL GET AROUND TO IT.
Thought experiment.
By my will alone (game mechanics allowing) I send a volly of blaster fire at my foe causing DPS (damage per second)
By my will alone (see above
) I send my pet who causes DPS to my foe.My (fillin the blank) armor absorbes xxx points of damage.
My foe hits my pet for xxx damage.
So in the more generic view it is clear that my pets are my weapons (dealers of damage per second) and my armor (absorbers of damage that was to be mine) Far from "idiotic" we now see that this view is common sense and logical.
As to the fact I can also shoot a blaster then yes I am using as many as *5* weapons at the same time. (Oh you did remember combat droids right? ) and when pistoller gets duel wield that will be 6. But you have at least 2 cause you have DOTs. DOTs are another weapon in the above view as they add to the DPS number.
And of course I *choose* to use my pets in battle when I do. I also choose to use a rifle or pistol etc.
I even choose which pistol.
Now there are not too many MCH left in the world but you could get more support from us against this stupid 5 sec delay if you don't call us "idotic" and had you assisted us when we had to face a 15 sec delay while not in combat and a *TILL DEATH* delay if we are in combat. (Unless we have other skills like CM)
Please note that CM can throw an area poison then shoot while the poison is doing DPS. (well used to now with the 5 sec delay it might not matter
) So BH is not the only profession with ability to use 2 weapons at the same time. 3 actually cause you can use combat droids. 4 if you have a useable pet.-Indene-
Efia
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:41 pm
#397
PLEASE put jedi missions back to MBH if you make this change. Please. Thanks
Chaind2f8
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:43 pm
#398
Well I am relieved.... relieved that I now know I made the right choice in canceling my account. Rather than address the underpowerd nature of the BH profession they're removing requirements so that we can dabble in those professions that are infinitely more powerful than us. The bounty hunter profession as a whole is still useless and now that it has been reduced to a mere dabble class there is nothing distinctive about us. Now none of the combat concerns with MBH will likely ever be addressed and so far as the dabbling goes - we'll still only be subpar. Your best bet is to go BH 4000 and pick up some melee classes since that's the only way you'll stand even the slimmest chance in this game (especially against deflecting Jedi).
We are going to remove the Trapping, Hunting, and Survival Scout lines from the Bounty Hunter prerequisites.
grommond
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:55 pm
#400
For what it's worth I'll offer my 2 cents.
I think this is a bad move for the same reasons many other folks have highlighted. I have no desire to lower the requirements of BH or MBH. I love that I've spent 217 points to master what should be a very powerful 1:1 combat profession. I think the devs are having some challanges balancing this and I certainly don't envy them. I don't want a quick fix, I want the full fix. I'm not going to bother reworking my character until after the CB so removing the requirements now doesn't seem to help very much.
I've been sitting quietly by not playing this game much waiting for publish 10 and then the combat balance and GCW revamp. I really look forward to playing my MBH and hunting Jedi with at least a small chance of success.
In short: I'm happy to wait for the right fix, not the quick fix. I'm also concerned that we weren't given an opportunity to vote on this. What we *have* been asking for months we still don't have, but now we have something the BH community never achieved rough consensus on.
Thanks,
Trick Williams
MBH, Corbantis
I think this is a bad move for the same reasons many other folks have highlighted. I have no desire to lower the requirements of BH or MBH. I love that I've spent 217 points to master what should be a very powerful 1:1 combat profession. I think the devs are having some challanges balancing this and I certainly don't envy them. I don't want a quick fix, I want the full fix. I'm not going to bother reworking my character until after the CB so removing the requirements now doesn't seem to help very much.
I've been sitting quietly by not playing this game much waiting for publish 10 and then the combat balance and GCW revamp. I really look forward to playing my MBH and hunting Jedi with at least a small chance of success.
In short: I'm happy to wait for the right fix, not the quick fix. I'm also concerned that we weren't given an opportunity to vote on this. What we *have* been asking for months we still don't have, but now we have something the BH community never achieved rough consensus on.
Thanks,
Trick Williams
MBH, Corbantis
RaccaBoo
Tue Jun 29, 2004 9:59 pm
#401
For one thing you can actually fix the jedi missions. I had two missions that I had no tef to attack the jedi. Also seekers are still not updating as they should.
Um accuracy so high that you can actually hit a jedi. I will be forced to go TKM or fencer in order to complete jedi missions. Ranged weapons against saber masters get 99% of our shots blocked.
Fahd Krath Master Bounty Hunter/Master Jedi Stalker
BatosaiB
Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:00 pm
#402
Please let Novice BH's start gettingJedi missions, This way we can stop all these Jedi's running around Today with all these Jedis out I felt Like I'm playing "Jedi Academy" lol
Today with all these Jedis out I felt Like I'm playing "Jedi Academy" lol
Southwick
Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:13 pm
#403
Bat they are not going to do that..geez.
The only real option here is if implementing this to MOVE JEDI HUNTING TO MBH ONLY!.