Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Smuggler Missions
Sprite404 wrote:
I have no idea how to do this but I don't think some aspects of smuggling should be in mission form.
If smuggling wasactuallyneeded by thepublicfor some purposeit could be a service we charged playersfor rather than being payed by some unknown faceless person.
I just think we need to get off this whole mission thing and focus on actually making smuggling a part of the game, I'm sure there has to be some way to do it without requiring the space expansion. Just need to think about it some.
I agree with this. The randomly generated mission mindset is dull. What the game needs is more structures to allow player generated content. That's why my suggestion for smuggling involves making smuggling a requirement of the player economy. Mark valuable anddesirable items and resources as contraband. Do not allow the contraband items to be traded via the bazaar. Make it so that only smugglers have a chance of transporting these contraband items safely through the game's travel systems and you have made smugglers an important piece of a player driven economic system.
See again my whole proposal at:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=smuggler&message.id=5886
If the idea of smuggling "terminals" offends you, then just imagine that instead of computer terminals next to the bank, these were instead "Black Market" npc's that you interacted with inside cantinas. Players with contraband to transport would "talk" to these npcs, and get a smuggling mission creation form, and smugglers that interacted with them would get a list of available player created smuggling missions.
Hmm, I just had an interesting thought about extending this system that could be fun. It might be cool if even player to player trades of contraband items was restricted. Make it so that in order to exchange a contraband item from one player to another, at least one of the people must have some smuggler skill. A system like this would mean that a smuggler would have to be involved in EVERY exchange of contraband items. An artisan might make a contraband weapon, but they can't sell it on the bazaar, or their vendor, or even give it to a friend. Instead they could only trade it to a smuggler character, who could then act as a middleman. Smugglers could become the defacto black market with a system like this, as only they would be able to carry around the contraband and sell it to players. Man, I'm loving this idea! Can't you just see the smugglers hanging out in a smoky cantina selling illegal power blasters and other smuggled products?
So to summarize my proposal:
Create desirable contraband items.
Transport of these contraband items through the game transport system (planet to planet, and shuttles) can only be done by smugglers.
Exchange of these contraband items from person to person require that at least one person in the trade have smuggler skill.
Periodically change what is considered contraband, and allow different planets to havedifferentlists of what are contraband items.
Create a system to allow players to create contraband transport missions at an NPC "terminal", where they drop off their contraband, and smugglers pick it up for delivery. Tie this into a bonding system and player bounty system for failed smuggling missions.
That is smuggling nirvana. It would also add a lot of content and excitement to the non-smuggler community.
Some good ideas in here. A lot of the stuff I posted in my thread is similar. Here was my take on missions.
Mission Terminals & Smuggling Experience
Upon reaching novice skill the smuggler is granted access to underground missions. The smuggler must use a precision laser knife to attempt to slice a terminal. If successful a new batch of missions appear. Successful completion of one of these missions is rewarded with smuggling experience, credits and a positive faction adjustment to the appropriate faction. Unlike a normal mission some of these missions require a securitydepositupon accepting of a mission. Missions with security deposites have the chance of generating bounty hunter missions should you fail.
Failed Missions & Bounty Hunters
Failure to complete such a mission within the predetermined amount of time results in the loss of deposit, a negative faction adjustment and the smuggler being placed on the bounty list.
Player controlled bounty hunters will see the bounty placed on a smuggler based on the size of the deposit. A small deposit bounty may only be displayed in the town where the smuggler’s mission originated. A large bounty may be planet wide. After a bounty hunter accepts the mission it is removed from their mission terminals. At this point an automatic dual is started between the smuggler and the bounty hunter. This remains in effect until one has defeated the other, the bounty hunter acquires what was owed by the smuggler or until the bounty has forfeited the mission.
A bounty hunter may have only 3 player bounties at any given time. They may discard a mission as they see fit and doing so will return the smuggler to the bounty listing. A bounty can be collected peacefully by the smuggler turning over the item owed (if any) to the bounty hunter, under whatever conditions are negotiated, or by the slaying of the smuggler by the bounty hunter. Upon the death of the smuggler the item is removed from the smugglers inventory if still present.
In my proposal I linked underworld, spice and slicing togeather into smuggler missions. Keep up the good work people. The more of the grunt work we get out of the way for them the quicker they can make the smuggler profession live up to it's name.
I think the simpelest way to have "faction police" stopping people is to run it just like destroy missions now. Once you get close to your objective or after you make your pickup a group of hostile NPC's are triggered. You can either use some sort of deception skill or just fight / run away. This requires very little augmentation of the current system and would accomplish a very similar feel to what you are proposing with patrolling faction police.
I think that our smuggling missions need to be completed based on our SKILLS as smugglers, not hindging on pure chance of being able to "smooth talk" our way out of butt woopin?
I can't get past that single part of the original suggestion. For 90% of what was originally proposed I can agree, but to hinge passing or failing a mission purely on what you say to an officer seems random and pointless.
Now before anyone gets defensive, I wand to say that Imbrifer has done a fabulous job organizing this thread.. I just know I would not want to do a mission that was based on clicking the right dandom response to an officer. There is no way to be "better at choosing" the right smooth-talkign responses... I would not want to work all the way to the end of a mission to get blown away becuase I made the wrong random response to a question.
My 2 credits
I forgot to add that I also see the RolePlaying reasoning behind "smooth talking" our way out of trouble... it definately fits. Should we have a skill based on it if we think strongly that it fits our persona and therefore our missions should contain it?
thoughts.. thoughts.. nothing more.
Alright, first to quickly address what Cren said - I should clarify what I mean by 'smooth talking'. It would be a skill. Something like, you get Smooth Talking at Underworld 2, and then it increases as you go higher up the dicipline. There would be a percent chance of it working, and that percent would inrease as your skill increases. it wouldnt be about successfully navigating a chat menu. And if you fail at that, you can try to use Bribe, which would be gained at Underworld I.
This thread has definitely gotten away from randomly generated smuggler missions (which we would propose as a easily-created stepping stone towards player bounties and illegal goods and such, because I doubt the DEVs would do the whole switchover at once.. Aside from that, smugglers would still be able to run missions if they dont have the skill, or the economy is bad)
Lets do a little analysis. If I want my cargo of one Tangle Pistol moved from Narmle to Coronet, I am going to put it on the smuggler terminal. I want to sell it for, say, 8k.I create the missions, and i offer 2,000 credits (which is a HEFTY 25% of the price I want to charge) for the mission. So a smuggler takes it, and puts in a 2000 credit deposit. That means the mission will pay the smuggler 2000c if it is completed. The smuggler arrives in Coronet with no problem, and deposits the item into that city's Smuggler terminal. So the smuggler paid about 1400 in tickets to get from Rori to Coronet. That is a 600 credit profit for the smuggler, not counting time spent waiting for shuttles, or the money it would take the smuggler to get back to wherever they wanted to be. THEN we toss in player bounties... say while buying a ticket in Theed, the smuggler was killed, or heck, the smuggler just really liked the tangle pistol. The 4000 credits goes to the BH terminal, and the hunter sees it. The hunter compares it to the other missions that pay around 8000 credits and laughs. Why would the hunter pay for droids, tickets and so on just for 4000 credits? It just doesnt make sense... You may say "but thats just very small cargo, we were thinking more like 10 tangle pistols, or 3 suits of ubese or something" That means that people who do not make high level items in vast quantities would be forced to sell them in the city they make them. Thats just sad. And I understand wanting to get smugglers more involved in the economy, but making us _essential_ so that anything above items made by level III crafters can move... does anyone else see a problem with that? Sure, smugglers would be in massive demand, but all the crafters would lose large amounts of money (ask any non-master armorsmiths if they can afford to lose any more....) due to having to pay smugglers. It goes without saying that there would be a massive impact on the economy. /rant
Haggis, good point - if you are talking about making spices and high level weapons contraband, that would be essential. But as far as generated missions go, if only smugglers can take the mission, there would be no need for other professions to be searched.
As far as slicing a terminal to open up a page of smuggler missions, there are a few problems.. The first is that theyd have to change it so slicing works for two minutes, or a period of time, instead of a page of missions. It would be horribly frustrating to slice, get some missions you dont like, wait two minutes, look for missions again, and so on. I still think the NPC in the cantina who has a datapad of missions is the best way. NPC: "Hello, there is only one reason youd be talking to me.." Smuggler: "Yes, let me see the missions..." *page of missions just like current terminal appears, you can refresh and all*
If we do generated missions, we can have mods in the Underground dicipline that add +1 difficulty to missions (like the bounty hunter does in their investigation tree). That way, missions can pay much more than if a player had to foot the bill, there can still be a deposit, and there will be enough money so that if the smuggler runs off with the item or fails the mission, the hunter will want to take it up. I just dont see it working like that in a player economy.
I do feel, however, that if generated smuggler missions are successfully integrated into a patch, it will be a halfway mark to getting the player bounties and real involvement we want. Once smuggler missions are in, we can just say "Why don't you tag other items, like spices and high level weapons/droids/armor in the same way you tag mission items? And just drop in an interface for non-smugglers, where they can speak to the cantina NPC and put an item to be smuggled?"
We just have to take it one step at a time..
I like the idea about the NPC contact with the datapad in the cantina for randomly generated missions.
Regarding completion of those missions I agree the police in-town should question any smuggler that comes within an "aggro" range who is on a mission. Here is how I see it working:
Scenario 1:
Smuggler enters town by avoiding guards and completes mission with no trouble
Scenario 2:
Smuggler enters town but gets stopped/questioned by guards. A menu pops up with options that asks basically "what do you do?" Smuggler has options:
A) Run -> Conversation with guards ends and smuggler physically makes a run for it, guards shoot at him
B) Smooth Talk (chance of success depends on underworld/negotiation/smuggler skill whatever you want to call it) If sucess -> conversation with guards ends, you get smuggler skill exp and go on your merry way
If fail --?
c) Bribe (chance of sucess depends on same smuggler skill PLUS amount of money you
Dangit sorry I hit a weird key and it stopped my post while I was mid-editing... Will complete it in a later post.
Grrrr
I see it working the same way.. if you fail smooth talking, you can bribe them as a last resort (which should be somewhere in the area of 1k-2k, if the mission pays around 4-5k), and if that fails too, you can make a run for it. The only complication would be if you hit esc or quit out of the action-select menu, but that could just be the same as hitting 'run'.
Ok lets try this again… Refining ideas of how the randomly generated smuggler missions could work and continuing on from previous screwed up post of mine earlier.
2 things need to be implemented for my ideas:
1) smuggler/underworld exp (I'll call it smuggler from this point and describe things as if we have it)
2) guard factions for every city (don't know if this is in yet or not really)
So you are a smuggler and you've gotten stopped by the town guards and a dialog box pops up you have the option to:
A -- Run -> Conversation with guards ends and you physically make a run for it Outcome will depend on how fast you run and your weapon skills, how fast the guards are, just like any other fight. It ends with:
1 -- you getting away (no faction change and mission continues)
2 -- you killing guards (negative guard faction hit, mission continues)
3 -- the guards incapacitating you and taking the mission item (mission fails but no further guard faction hit)
4 -- the guards killing you if your faction with them was bad enough and taking the mission item (mission fails but no further guard faction hit)
B -- Smooth Talk (not a skill unto itself but part of underworld tree/exp) -> Chance of success depends on 1) your smuggler skill and 2) your faction with that city's guards. It ends with:
1 - Success: the guards believe you when you say "these are not the druids you were looking for." (gain smuggler exp, improved guard faction, mission continues)
2 -- Failure outcomes:
a - new option to bribe if you chose not to try bribe in the first place (see bribe description, but you'd better make it good since you've already made em wary)
b - guards get upset and start shooting (same outcomes as if you had chosen run but higher negative guard faction hit for trying to smooth talk them)
C -- Bribe -> Whether or not you succeed on this depends on 1) smuggler skill, 2) your faction with the guards and 3) the amount of the bribe (and yes you would enter in a bribe amount and really give them cash you have on-hand). It ends with:
1 -- Guard accepts bribe, lets you go on your way (gain smuggler exp, improved guard faction, mission continues)
2 -- Guard coughs and makes a suggestion that you need to give him more cash ( can also succeed or fail depending on above factors)
3 - Guard keeps cash but declares he is offended and starts shooting at you (see outcomes under Run)
Ok I guess you get the idea, its hard to do a decision-tree like this in the forums. Going to end here before I botch up another post.
- Jv
New idea: Add a "disguise" skill to the underworld/smuggler exp tree that we have all been suggesting.
It could work like Image Designer skills, but be only temporary (3 minutes?) and allow neutral guard faction for the duration so that the smuggler has a chance to pass those town guards unnoticed IF he has chosen to enter the town via the main gates or starport where guards are likely posted.
If smuggler is still in town when the disguise wears off there is still a chance that any guards nearby will stop and question him. (and no you cant disguise yourself after theyve already spotted you unless you make your escape, and come back later in disguise)
- Jv
One possibility for player-generated missions... They could work via the bazaar and smugglers could provide a service to transport items that a player has bought in one place (but not yet retrieved) and deliver them to another place/bazaar terminal for the owner to retrieve there.
Ive thought about doing this just as player-to-player because I travel quite a bit, but currently I would have to buy the item FOR them in order to retrieve it from the remote bazaar and then trust them to pay me for the item, my expenses and time, and I'd have to deliver it to them personally, which requires online time coordination etc. But this would be such a nice addition to the player economy. Havent you ever wanted those2 locked containers you spotted for 200 each on Talus but really havent had the time or the spare 4kfor the round tripto run get them from your home on Rori?
If we had some automated way via the bazaar to pickup and dropoff items, a player could just hire us by highlighting the item in his own "retrieve" menu from any terminal and entering options for the amount he is willing to pay and where he wants it to go.
Sucess -- item shows up at bazaar terminal of owners choice back under owners retrieve menu, smuggler gets the cash.
Fail -- only way to "fail" is to abort mission, in which case the item remains at its original location with the same offer for another smuggler to retrieve or the owner to cancel the mission if he picks it up himself.
** Smugglers should be able to take maybe 5-10 (?) of this type of mission at a time to allow item owners to enter a reasonable transport fee, but smuggler profits by consolidating the trips.
** Not suggesting that the actual item is ever in the hands of the smuggler. Although that could be an interesting tie-in with the suggestions about player bounties and whatnot. 
- Jv
Pretty much everything in this thread is an awesome idea.
1) Slicing should definitely be incorporated. Maybe they should introduce a system where whenever a player lands in a starport, they have to access a customs terminal, which scans your inventory for contraband, then gives you a passport if you don't have any. The passport would be used to gain exit from the starport. And if you're trying to smuggle something onto the planet, you can slice the terminal and get a passport that way.
2) A smuggler terminal would be dumb. An NPC that performs the same duties placed in a seedy tavern would be better.
3) Someone had a good idea for how smuggler missions would be: In essence, a player uploads an item, payment, deposit requirement, and destination to a 'terminal'. The smuggler takes it there, to another 'terminal',and gets paid. Or, if the mission fails, that payment is instead directed to the nearest Bounty terminal. People have expressed dislike, however, over the fact that these bounties might not be worth the time/money of a hunter. Possible solution: The bounty hunter, instead of dispatching droids to find the target, would use a special skill (we'll call it 'investigate') which would attach awaypoint to the place where the smuggler is at that moment. Whether or not the waypoint is generatedexactly where thesmuggler is would be determined by the skill level in investigate; get a low 'roll', the waypoing is generated far away, and vice-versa. The more skill in Investigate, the closer the waypointwould be to where the smuggler is. There'd be a cooldown rate, which would decrease with levels.
4) What would determine the difficulty in a successful investigation? Distance from target, for one. Perhaps the Smuggler should have a passive skill whose function is to oppose the Investigation skill. It would be part of the underworld branch of skills. Or, maybe Investigation is used unnopposed, but the smuggler has a skill which runs passively to determine if they're made aware that a bounty hunter is chasing them down. Suggestions?