Bounty Hunter Archive

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Ozmos wrote:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=86448

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nm my last reply. Based on tests I've just done, the info in this post is incorrect. Speed does modify the cooldown timers.

based on my tests a weapon with higher dps and lower max dmg (better speed) outdamaged a weapon with lower dps and a higher max damage (worse speed).

there was a difference in speed after 10 shots using two specials to toggle between and the difference was directly correlated by the speed on my weapons. And this difference more than made up for the lack of total damage since I could get off another shot. So the dps is accurate it seems.

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Darth-Kevlar wrote:
the problem is that after some amount speed mods, normally 150 for pistols, the cooldown of special is reduced only by fractions of second, to a point where, in my case, i need to fire 16 specials to start getting a equalizer.. oh btw, my action will run out after 12.... so...

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Alristico wrote:

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Darth-Kevlar wrote:
the problem is that after some amount speed mods, normally 150 for pistols, the cooldown of special is reduced only by fractions of second, to a point where, in my case, i need to fire 16 specials to start getting a equalizer.. oh btw, my action will run out after 12.... so...

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this is the new system of diminishing returnsthat was introduced with the combat upgrade and applies to almost everything. Btw what do you mean by "equalizer"?

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well, my scenario is the following:

1) weapon 1

de-10, 1003 damage, 2.18 speed, dps 318, sac 82

2) weapon 2

scatter, 948, 1.93 speed, dps 368, sac 90.

The scatter is faster, but , with my speed mods, inpratical terms, with will only beat the de-10 in terms of damage dealt after 16 to 17 special attacks due to cooldown of specials. So, only after that amount the scatter generate enough mommentum to fire 1 extra special in the same time it took the de-10 to fire a chain of macro'ed specials. This is empirical data generated when i was able to stack action regenerating foods. Currently I can't sustain more than 14 specials before my action runs out. Even with action cost power ups, i'm simply firing tofast .

both weapons end up firing "basic " attacks at almost similar speed.

by equalizer ( or equaliser not sure since english is not my prime langauge) i meant the moment when the faster weapon with less damage is able to surpass the slower higher damage one.

Onething worth noticing, this applies to pistols mostly and to a point carbines. with a rifle of lets say 1150 or more damage, the "basic attack" grants the user a punch that a pistol doesn't have.

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Darth-Kevlar wrote:

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Alristico wrote:

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Darth-Kevlar wrote:
the problem is that after some amount speed mods, normally 150 for pistols, the cooldown of special is reduced only by fractions of second, to a point where, in my case, i need to fire 16 specials to start getting a equalizer.. oh btw, my action will run out after 12.... so...

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this is the new system of diminishing returnsthat was introduced with the combat upgrade and applies to almost everything. Btw what do you mean by "equalizer"?

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well, my scenario is the following:

1) weapon 1

de-10, 1003 damage, 2.18 speed, dps 318, sac 82

2) weapon 2

scatter, 948, 1.93 speed, dps 368, sac 90.

The scatter is faster, but , with my speed mods, inpratical terms, with will only beat the de-10 in terms of damage dealt after 16 to 17 special attacks due to cooldown of specials. So, only after that amount the scatter generate enough mommentum to fire 1 extra special in the same time it took the de-10 to fire a chain of macro'ed specials. This is empirical data generated when i was able to stack action regenerating foods. Currently I can't sustain more than 14 specials before my action runs out. Even with action cost power ups, i'm simply firing tofast .

both weapons end up firing "basic " attacks at almost similar speed.

by equalizer ( or equaliser not sure since english is not my prime langauge) i meant the moment when the faster weapon with less damage is able to surpass the slower higher damage one.

Onething worth noticing, this applies to pistols mostly and to a point carbines. with a rifle of lets say 1150 or more damage, the "basic attack" grants the user a punch that a pistol doesn't have.

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you're misunderstanding the methods.

the gun with higher dps does more damage right from the start. With the two guns you've listed, ina side by side comparison,the faster one will fire first then the other one quickly after and they will both interchange fire until about 20 seconds (10 specials) at which point the faster one will have gained an extra round of fire.

however, in this case, the gun with a lower dps may still be a better choice based on the sac since the faster one will be drained faster than if the sac's were the same. Because if the sac's were the same the faster one with higher dps will still be drained faster but will still do more damage per second overall.

My Carb is 945 dps so yes you can get to 800. Only prob is the weaponsmith who made it left the game.

I have three so should last me

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Alristico wrote:

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Darth-Kevlar wrote:

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Alristico wrote:

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Darth-Kevlar wrote:
the problem is that after some amount speed mods, normally 150 for pistols, the cooldown of special is reduced only by fractions of second, to a point where, in my case, i need to fire 16 specials to start getting a equalizer.. oh btw, my action will run out after 12.... so...

---

this is the new system of diminishing returnsthat was introduced with the combat upgrade and applies to almost everything. Btw what do you mean by "equalizer"?

---

well, my scenario is the following:

1) weapon 1

de-10, 1003 damage, 2.18 speed, dps 318, sac 82

2) weapon 2

scatter, 948, 1.93 speed, dps 368, sac 90.

The scatter is faster, but , with my speed mods, inpratical terms, with will only beat the de-10 in terms of damage dealt after 16 to 17 special attacks due to cooldown of specials. So, only after that amount the scatter generate enough mommentum to fire 1 extra special in the same time it took the de-10 to fire a chain of macro'ed specials. This is empirical data generated when i was able to stack action regenerating foods. Currently I can't sustain more than 14 specials before my action runs out. Even with action cost power ups, i'm simply firing tofast .

both weapons end up firing "basic " attacks at almost similar speed.

by equalizer ( or equaliser not sure since english is not my prime langauge) i meant the moment when the faster weapon with less damage is able to surpass the slower higher damage one.

Onething worth noticing, this applies to pistols mostly and to a point carbines. with a rifle of lets say 1150 or more damage, the "basic attack" grants the user a punch that a pistol doesn't have.

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you're misunderstanding the methods.

the gun with higher dps does more damage right from the start. With the two guns you've listed, ina side by side comparison,the faster one will fire first then the other one quickly after and they will both interchange fire until about 20 seconds (10 specials) at which point the faster one will have gained an extra round of fire.

however, in this case, the gun with a lower dps may still be a better choice based on the sac since the faster one will be drained faster than if the sac's were the same. Because if the sac's were the same the faster one with higher dps will still be drained faster but will still do more damage per second overall.

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Darth-Kevlar wrote:

wrong, the faster one will need 17 specials to get the extra round of fire. I have made the test . like i said, don't forget that i'm packing 172 speed and so the scatter only gets , in my case, a simple 0.08 faster recovery on cooldown special ( thats the number i got after remaking my macro about 100 times, each time reducing the wait between specials)

example ( just coing to copy paste the begining of my macro, as it consists of 10 specials)

with de-10

/underhandshoot %TT;

/pause 1.0;

/legshot %TT;

/pause 1.18

/criticalshot

with scatter

/underhandshoot %TT;

/pause 1.0;

/legshot %TT;

/pause 1.10

/criticalshot

basicly if i reduce the second pause from 1.10 to 1.09, the critical shot will not be fired...

This is false, the special will be queued up to fire the tenth ofthe second that its possible.

my point is , with my speed there is really a irrelevant diference in terms of special cooldown. While i had 125 speed , for example, i noticed a higher cooldown on the de-10, then when i passed 150 speed, the diference become smaler and at 172 speed It is really hard to notice. It exist but plays a irrelevant part. another important thing here is that a critical shot /leg shot ( and those 2 are important, since i use them a lot) with the de-10 normally has about +100 dmg than the same special with the scatter ( multplier of 1.9 ) so even if i got a extra roundof fire after 10 shots ( and i don't, i need about 16 to 17) , it wouldn't mean i would be doing more damage, but catching up.

Of ocurse this is a extreme scenario since i'm using a post CU craftedpistol ( the scatter) vs a pre CUpistol with damage than can't be done currently ( max damage cap on pistols currently is 967). In a system where the damage would be random between max and minimal damage , yes, in fact dps would be important, but since I hit for a fixed amount vs the same target, the dps/mdps is in fact, mostly misleading. ( and don't point the accuracy+defense affecting the damage , since i have the same accuracy with both ( +310), not mentioning that the de-10 hasa minimal of +450vs the 380-390 of the scatter).

one other thing that i always repeat, is that when i say it is misleading, i'm considering a cl 80 with 2 mastered professions. If i was exping and didn't had more than 105 speed, I would sing a different tune, because then, yes, the dps/mdps would be a important.

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your speed mod only affects the mod speed shown on the weapon. And as you said, themore your speed mod is the less of a difference it will make on your mod speed shown on the weapon. This is of no importance though since we only need to look at the final product, which is the modified speed shown on the weapons.

I don't know if you've given the modified speed and dps values, the ones you've posted look more like base values, especially the dps's. The fact that you will do more damage per second will still show in the base values though because your mod speed is not a variable between the two weapons, especially because they are both pistols. If you increase or decrease your character's speed then the two pistols will both be equally affected.

your macros are insignificant. They are more of an opinion. In order to accurately tell the difference in speed you need to

- use the same specials between both weapons (preferrably just two specials to minimize confusion)

- toggle between both specials continuously

- always queue up the next special so that it fires as soon as it possibly can

- use a large enough data set so the difference in speed will be noticeable. (10 or 15 shots is good enough)

- use the timestamps from the combat tab as the data.

Then you see how many seconds have elapsed after, for example, 10 shots with the first weapon and 10 shots with the second. The faster weapon will have taken less time to fire all 10 shots and the difference is directly related to the difference in modified speed that is listed on both weapons.

If one weapon is not much faster you will not be able to tell after the first or second shot because you can't measure tenths of a second but the difference will be evident after 10 shots because those tenths of seconds will be added 10 times.

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DigitalSpider wrote:
if your DLs had the same DMG and SAC then yes yours would be better. But if your SAC was the same and your Dmg lower then quite frankly I would say his is better.

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