Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: **Jedi/BH need balance we have same problem as 1 year ago**
KOLBROOKIE wrote:
the poster has a point , but most of you lot think bh needs cm and bh does not need cm at all 0020 medic is ok ,i use it with my template.
why should jedi which in some cases only takes 3 weeks to grind out and finish ie respec + 2x xp weeks ,and normaly 6 months or geocaves camping and holo grinding which was 4 months ,get all the best loot and are mando armour .
and for a mbh to get 300 mill just for all his ca and aa and then the weapons and then all the adks for the stuff, then the armour and all the parts to slice it 75% ab because of the jedi ruled the ca and aa market for so long.Now the jedi are crying that we have the ca and aa.
give jedi offence but take there def away as well.
Newtons 3rd law of physics with every action there is a reaction *(why cant this apply.)*
a) Last time I checked BH loot wasnt too bad, either. You dont need to pay 300 mill, you can loot it yourself and sell or trade the stuff you dont need. If you play your BH smart you dont need a lot of equipment, either.
b) If you are referring to the respec and 2x xp: BHs took advantage of this as well - they could equally respec into the investigation trees or combat xp lines, and they got double xp as well. Respec and 2x xp was scaling down the grinding times for all professions, you cant use this to support your point of wanting to be stronger in relation to Jedi. With respec and 2x xp you could grind out BH in less than a day.
c) Some Jedi choose to take more offense and less defense. And usually they are more of a threat to BHs than MDef Jedi if the BH template is built for taking on MDefs (as most currently are).
just becauseyour a respec dont mean everyone else is.
HyprHypo wrote:
robpro wrote:
Ive been a Master Bounty Hunter since sept 03
lies
KOLBROOKIE wrote:
eskie wrote
a) Last time I checked BH loot wasnt too bad, either. You dont need to pay 300 mill, you can loot it yourself and sell or trade the stuff you dont need. If you play your BH smart you dont need a lot of equipment, either.
b) If you are referring to the respec and 2x xp: BHs took advantage of this as well - they could equally respec into the investigation trees or combat xp lines, and they got double xp as well. Respec and 2x xp was scaling down the grinding times for all professions, you cant use this to support your point of wanting to be stronger in relation to Jedi. With respec and 2x xp you could grind out BH in less than a day.
c) Some Jedi choose to take more offense and less defense. And usually they are more of a threat to BHs than MDef Jedi if the BH template is built for taking on MDefs (as most currently are).
a/ does not apply to pre cu bh because we already payed out for the aa and ca before the cu.
b/ does not apply to pre cu bh because we all ready grinded out the profession 1 year ago or more
c/jedi dont need double master because they have some dabbler combo template that gives them defense and offence, with insain stats like 1000 melee def 750 ranged def 200 speed etc etc valour aura and a lot more, they dont need doc buffs or food we do .
and with a pre cu saber unstoppable
hm my jedi without booster blue, blob candy, spiced tea, pikatta pie is pretty dead in most fights, oh and no jedi template gets 1000 def not even with aura, you need food to even come close to those levels.
I grinded out my jedi template pre cu running missions and killing about 35000 grassland voritor trackers, i had to pay for my CA's and AA's aswell is it fair that a jedi needs to spend 100 million just to make a lightsaber?
KOLBROOKIE wrote:
eskie wrote
a) Last time I checked BH loot wasnt too bad, either. You dont need to pay 300 mill, you can loot it yourself and sell or trade the stuff you dont need. If you play your BH smart you dont need a lot of equipment, either.
b) If you are referring to the respec and 2x xp: BHs took advantage of this as well - they could equally respec into the investigation trees or combat xp lines, and they got double xp as well. Respec and 2x xp was scaling down the grinding times for all professions, you cant use this to support your point of wanting to be stronger in relation to Jedi. With respec and 2x xp you could grind out BH in less than a day.
c) Some Jedi choose to take more offense and less defense. And usually they are more of a threat to BHs than MDef Jedi if the BH template is built for taking on MDefs (as most currently are).
a/ does not apply to pre cu bh because we already payed out for the aa and ca before the cu.
b/ does not apply to pre cu bh because we all ready grinded out the profession 1 year ago or more
c/jedi dont need double master because they have some dabbler combo template that gives them defense and offence, with insain stats like 1000 melee def 750 ranged def 200 speed etc etc valour aura and a lot more, they dont need doc buffs or food we do .
and with a pre cu saber unstoppable
a) It does apply to pre-CU BHs since this thread is about balance between Jedi and BH. It does not matter when you got your BH, BH is BH the same as you call for balance with pre-CU and post-CU Jedi alike. This thread specifically moans about pre-CU sabers. One simple statement: Game experience may change over time. Just because you are pre-CU does not make you any better than post-CU BHs.
b) see a)
c) Your numbers are way off. Before talking about Jedi, learn what Jedi can do and not do. If you dont know your opponent there is no reason why you should not fail in killing your opponent.
Message Edited by Eskie on 09-06-2005 04:15 PM
Nakahs wrote:
The problem is jeday can heal as good as a mcm do as much damage as a rifleman with an uber min damage rifle of 600-700ish and tank with their 800-900 ranged def, mitigation and saberblock 25% like god himself. f.e. a capped rifle used by a high end modded rifleman with all accuracy food hits (when it even hits) for about 200-250dam. (without calculating PSG's - another -50 -100dam per hit)
This dam the jedi not even need to heal ... force infusion buff is autohealing enough to not have to heal manual.
Man, you can't put forth this kind of stuff and expect anyone to take you seriously.
Before I start, for the record, I'm a MBH and a Jedi. I was one of the first MBH's on my server, and I actively hunted finished template Jedi before they took names off the terms. I still hunt Jedi, but I'm still getting used to being forced to having to hunt low level Jedi, as they tend to run, where full templates would normally fight me. I have an excellent record vs full templates, and I'd put it up against anyone on my server...except that I don't count. My Jedi was unlocked back in the days of permadeath and saber TEF's. Pre-Pub 9 of course, former Knight, never Fight Clubbed. I'm one of the most well known PvP'rs on my server, be it on my Jedi, my main, or just hunting Jedi.
MBH/MRifle/4000CM
MLS/4440Def/3002Enh/4000Heal
No MDef, no cloak. No MCM on my BH.
My Jedi can not heal anywhere near what my BH can. Period. My Jedi, with the same healing that a good 90% of other Jedi have, get one 1500 heal every 60 seconds, stims and ruby, and infusion. My BH gets something like 1200 heals every 6 seconds, plus a 1000 heal in those same six seconds, plus another area heal for 600 again in those same six seconds, along with stims and ruby. My BH will outheal my Jedi hands down, every time. No question. It's one of the major gripes of Jedi to be honest, and where you came up with Jedi being better at healing is beyond me.
And if you give me a Jedi with ANY template that does nothing but use infusion to heal himself, he's going to die, period. Infusion heals 250 every 4 seconds. If you can't outdamage that, you suck, plain and simple.
I hit for closer to 500dmg, not 200-250. My rifle is 685ish to 1300ish with a dmg pu, which is what I use when I fight Jedi. My saber is 681 max. My rifle's min dmg is higher than my saber's max dmg. And while I may not have a perfect saber, I'm far, far better off than most. The only difference in dmg comes from the fact that Jedi have armor break.
Now, MDefenders are tough to damage, yes. But the large majority of them do not have enough saber skills to kill me, at all. I've died a total of once during a BH mission since the heals were upped, and armor break slices put in. And that was because I wear ranged arms because I'm too lazy to take them off, which gives me armor holes. Now that I've taken those off, I don't really expect to ever lose. That's right, ever. Unless I eff up.
Now, that doesn't mean that I kill every Jedi I face. Many get away, whether they get JtL'd out, hide in a base, or whatever. But if I had a root, the story would be different.
Do I do enough damage to MDefenders? No, I need to either run down their mind or force to kill them. But I've done it, as have many others. Does it suck that I can't kill them through pure damage? Sure, but such is life. Jedi are supposed to be more powerful than us. And in all honesty, they really aren't, except that they are more versatile. That's why I enjoy playing my Jedi. He does well at everything, where my BH excels at one thing.
Maybe you just aren't a very good BH. The CU has completely changed the way you have to PvP. It's a whole new ball game. But what's odd is that the exceptional PvP'rs who've always been good...are still good. I don't know what tactics you use, what foods, your timing, or any of that. But if you are having so much trouble killing Jedi with the current state of things that you've come here to make a post about it, then you're doing something terribly wrong.
Last thing I did last night before the server went down was to duel one of my guildmates. Excellent PvP'r, long time Jedi, great saber, and knows his stuff. I've seen him rip up numerous BH's. He's actually got better mitigation than a MDef, because of his template. But I wore him down, and ran him out of force. Granted, he could have ran, but it was just a duel. But anytime I make a Jedi run, I chalk it up as a win...or go after them for more, which is normally what I do.
Nakahs wrote:
Hi all im just back from work and have to say thanks all jeday liers flamers and wanna be uba BH's alts!!
Sure u are all better BH's than me who is a true BH and plays and knows this game since beginning and was never concentrated on becoming Jedi and do the months of AFK grinding to Jedi.... i BELIEVE U!!!
Thanks too to the few other real BH's left in this by Jedi alts flooded forum. The reaction in this thread i opened are exactly what i have expected even worse since i called for balance - what means to nerf the most played prof in this game.
Let me explain Jeday whiners and BH's out there. Jeday is the most played prof cause over 90% of the Jeday have BH alts - add to these alts the Players who are only BH so real BH without a Jedi main and u got the majority of the people who play this game.
To reflect this u can check this thread as there are many many more Jedi talking they are BH's but if they were BH's they wouldnt want to have uber Jedays anymore and see the balance problems we are faced with the new CU system. Of course i know 1 year ago it was even worse but only a bit as there was LS dam which is now energy dam. Thats the only difference now.
The dam a full high end geared ranged and not MCM BH can do against a Jeday is the same as 1 year ago. The only difference in that is that is now even worthless to go TKM since they are too weak nowadays compared to the tanks they were before.
So there is only the 1 templ left fora BH who hunts effectively or something Jeday and this template is even too weak to do decent dam so he has to outlast the jeday and hope for some luck or noobness of the jeday.
And no i wont change to MCM only to be able to heal a bit longer when it is only to not die too fast then i better die quick and dont have so many decay...
Also dont forget a MCM cannot wear recon 8100 en armor and has cause of this to heal even more.
However the lies the Jeday BH alts or off schowing Jeday here are posting are so obviusly that every non totally noob can see it - so i not need to comment on that.
Maybe i do a list later in a new thread with the typical Jeday arguements why they shouldnt be balanced like BH's is too noob or just didnt take the actually FOTM template which isnt there. There are some very nice lies and unqualified nearly helpless to the truth seeming arguements the Jeday alts are producing here.
btw the arguement my english is bad is true but very very unfriendly and of course Offtopic but i understand u ... what can i expect from someone who play as a Jeday. Either they are afraid to lose their uberness or have become shizophrene or paranoid due this Prof
I just lay back and watch the Talkshow. Have fun
A true BH and non Jeday alt
greetings
If you must call for Balance or Nefing Please for the love of jedi get our name correct I have never seen any Jeday I have seen pleanty of JEDI.
I also think that the only reason you are calling for a Balance is because u suck at being a BH yes I am a Jedi and no I am not Master Defender I got 14 Melee defence from my Bando that I wear. Learn to use your skills more. I also have an alt and that is a MDE not BH. I also own 2 otther accounts and they have bounty hunter but not for hunting Jedi as I suck at it jsut as bad as you. I use them to Hunt those NPC marks for Loot. Maybe you shoudl consider loot hunting as you cannot PVP effectivly wiht your current skills.
Thanks and Flame away at my response please
Shadow2k wrote:
Nakahs wrote:
The problem is jeday can heal as good as a mcm do as much damage as a rifleman with an uber min damage rifle of 600-700ish and tank with their 800-900 ranged def, mitigation and saberblock 25% like god himself. f.e. a capped rifle used by a high end modded rifleman with all accuracy food hits (when it even hits) for about 200-250dam. (without calculating PSG's - another -50 -100dam per hit)
This dam the jedi not even need to heal ... force infusion buff is autohealing enough to not have to heal manual.
Man, you can't put forth this kind of stuff and expect anyone to take you seriously.
Before I start, for the record, I'm a MBH and a Jedi. I was one of the first MBH's on my server, and I actively hunted finished template Jedi before they took names off the terms. I still hunt Jedi, but I'm still getting used to being forced to having to hunt low level Jedi, as they tend to run, where full templates would normally fight me. I have an excellent record vs full templates, and I'd put it up against anyone on my server...except that I don't count. My Jedi was unlocked back in the days of permadeath and saber TEF's. Pre-Pub 9 of course, former Knight, never Fight Clubbed. I'm one of the most well known PvP'rs on my server, be it on my Jedi, my main, or just hunting Jedi.
MBH/MRifle/4000CM
MLS/4440Def/3002Enh/4000Heal
No MDef, no cloak. No MCM on my BH.
My Jedi can not heal anywhere near what my BH can. Period. My Jedi, with the same healing that a good 90% of other Jedi have, get one 1500 heal every 60 seconds, stims and ruby, and infusion. My BH gets something like 1200 heals every 6 seconds, plus a 1000 heal in those same six seconds, plus another area heal for 600 again in those same six seconds, along with stims and ruby. My BH will outheal my Jedi hands down, every time. No question. It's one of the major gripes of Jedi to be honest, and where you came up with Jedi being better at healing is beyond me.
And if you give me a Jedi with ANY template that does nothing but use infusion to heal himself, he's going to die, period. Infusion heals 250 every 4 seconds. If you can't outdamage that, you suck, plain and simple.
I hit for closer to 500dmg, not 200-250. My rifle is 685ish to 1300ish with a dmg pu, which is what I use when I fight Jedi. My saber is 681 max. My rifle's min dmg is higher than my saber's max dmg. And while I may not have a perfect saber, I'm far, far better off than most. The only difference in dmg comes from the fact that Jedi have armor break.
Now, MDefenders are tough to damage, yes. But the large majority of them do not have enough saber skills to kill me, at all. I've died a total of once during a BH mission since the heals were upped, and armor break slices put in. And that was because I wear ranged arms because I'm too lazy to take them off, which gives me armor holes. Now that I've taken those off, I don't really expect to ever lose. That's right, ever. Unless I eff up.
Now, that doesn't mean that I kill every Jedi I face. Many get away, whether they get JtL'd out, hide in a base, or whatever. But if I had a root, the story would be different.
Do I do enough damage to MDefenders? No, I need to either run down their mind or force to kill them. But I've done it, as have many others. Does it suck that I can't kill them through pure damage? Sure, but such is life. Jedi are supposed to be more powerful than us. And in all honesty, they really aren't, except that they are more versatile. That's why I enjoy playing my Jedi. He does well at everything, where my BH excels at one thing.
Maybe you just aren't a very good BH. The CU has completely changed the way you have to PvP. It's a whole new ball game. But what's odd is that the exceptional PvP'rs who've always been good...are still good. I don't know what tactics you use, what foods, your timing, or any of that. But if you are having so much trouble killing Jedi with the current state of things that you've come here to make a post about it, then you're doing something terribly wrong.
Last thing I did last night before the server went down was to duel one of my guildmates. Excellent PvP'r, long time Jedi, great saber, and knows his stuff. I've seen him rip up numerous BH's. He's actually got better mitigation than a MDef, because of his template. But I wore him down, and ran him out of force. Granted, he could have ran, but it was just a duel. But anytime I make a Jedi run, I chalk it up as a win...or go after them for more, which is normally what I do.
^ Wow intelligent post. And yes we are balanced. Sometimes BH wins, some times the jedis run, er win. Post CU I am about 50% on wins ( not counting runners). I think it is a matter of learning how to play your template, and know what a jedi will do at each step of the fight. Then head off his or her next move.
I think your numbers are wrong I am MLS with +29 LS SPeed +13 Gen Melee speed and I also have the FS melee speed and I only come out at
KOLBROOKIE wrote:
eskie wrote
a) Last time I checked BH loot wasnt too bad, either. You dont need to pay 300 mill, you can loot it yourself and sell or trade the stuff you dont need. If you play your BH smart you dont need a lot of equipment, either.
b) If you are referring to the respec and 2x xp: BHs took advantage of this as well - they could equally respec into the investigation trees or combat xp lines, and they got double xp as well. Respec and 2x xp was scaling down the grinding times for all professions, you cant use this to support your point of wanting to be stronger in relation to Jedi. With respec and 2x xp you could grind out BH in less than a day.
c) Some Jedi choose to take more offense and less defense. And usually they are more of a threat to BHs than MDef Jedi if the BH template is built for taking on MDefs (as most currently are).
a/ does not apply to pre cu bh because we already payed out for the aa and ca before the cu.
b/ does not apply to pre cu bh because we all ready grinded out the profession 1 year ago or more
c/jedi dont need double master because they have some dabbler combo template that gives them defense and offence, with insain stats like 1000 melee def 750 ranged def 200 speed etc etc valour aura and a lot more, they dont need doc buffs or food we do .
and with a pre cu saber unstoppable
well then obviously your not a CM or your donot know your options......
Message Edited by Midgetman690 on 09-06-200512:04 PM
Message Edited by Midgetman690 on 09-06-200512:05 PM
When comparing healing stats, yea you can throw in ca's, aa's and bio clothes, but that is not a fair comparision as you are not using mods to the jedi healing which is a flat 1500 no matter what
I was going to post a long, drawn-out argument against this, but I think it can be summed up ina few sentences. For any long-time BH to claim it's the 'same problem as 1 year ago' is just rediculous. It's better than it's ever been. Remember, balance means you win some and you lose some, not you win all. Every mission I take, I know I have a good chance of winning. It all comes down to timing and tactics.
Hoboken wrote:
well then obviously your not a CM or your donot know your options......
ever tryed bio clothing????? +18 healing i heal for near enough 1300
Message Edited by Midgetman690 on 09-06-200512:04 PM
Message Edited by Midgetman690 on 09-06-200512:05 PM
When comparing healing stats, yea you can throw in ca's, aa's and bio clothes, but that is not a fair comparision as you are not using mods to the jedi healing which is a flat 1500 no matter what
sure as hell its a fair comparison, i use healing clothes and i have food for it, if youre not using all the options to improve yourself dont expect to be able to win.
This is what it all boils down to today:
Do you have 8k Energy resist armor?
Do you have that armor 75% Armor Break Sliced?
Do you have a good weapon?.........and please do some research on what a good weapon is these days, BH loot has made uber Ranged weapons.
Do you use Duelist Stance?
Do you use food/spice at ALL?
Do you have at least 4xxx CM in your template?
Do you know how to use Alpha Stikes correctly?
Do you know the meaning of kiting?
Do you know your opponents skill set, you do know the current combat system is designed rock, paper, scissors?
Most important, do you suck at PvP......no matter your equipment, specials, food ect....., if you suck at PvP you'll never win unless the person you are fighting is worse than you.
Pday wrote:
Hoboken wrote:
well then obviously your not a CM or your donot know your options......
ever tryed bio clothing????? +18 healing i heal for near enough 1300Message Edited by Midgetman690 on 09-06-200512:04 PM
Message Edited by Midgetman690 on 09-06-200512:05 PM
When comparing healing stats, yea you can throw in ca's, aa's and bio clothes, but that is not a fair comparision as you are not using mods to the jedi healing which is a flat 1500 no matter what
sure as hell its a fair comparison, i use healing clothes and i have food for it, if youre not using all the options to improve yourself dont expect to be able to win.
WTH..I was comparing your inaccurate numbers of BASE healing vs healing, which you later mention was due to healing eff clothing on the CM side. I didn't even touch healing in regards to winning. While you're at it, since you seem to be sooo good at compairing things, why dont you compare saber throw with a post-cu saber with poor pearls and crappy crystals to a sniper shot with a double cap'd rifle sliced all to hell.
Message Edited by Hoboken on 09-06-2005 09:13 AM