Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: I'm not sure where the Nerf is...
I see where you are saying jedi should be able to escape us, but we don't really have that option 
Not that I care just pointing it out.
Thanks,
Captain Obvious
Ulrek_Oden wrote:
If the devs wanted it to be used as a first strike feature as I said b4 just disable cloak all together if the jedi is attacked first..
The best, most simple way to fix IMO. It will be a true alpha attack with no way to use it for escape or recharge. Why the devs don't do it this way, /sigh
Message Edited by WookieOgre on 09-21-2005 12:39 PM
Message Edited by SpaceSnail on 09-21-2005 10:54 AM
Ulrek_Oden wrote:
If the devs wanted it to be used as a first strike feature as I said b4 just disable cloak all together if the jedi is attacked first..
QFE
Actually, we can get away anytime we want too... It's a matter of template. Not every Jedi can cloak, and not every Bounty Hunter can root.
If I wanted to get away from a Jedi that I was losing to, I would KD and snare, then hit burst run or parawan to get out to 65m then nail them with the root and drop from combat, pull the bike and leave the scene. Run/hide for 2.5 min to lose the TEF and that's the end of it.
But then again, I don't have a root anymore, so it's not that easy for me. Now it's get out to 65 without using BR/parawan and snare/kd them and run like mad. At that point I'm out of combat so I can put on my TIE fighter suit (+5 TN) or any other TN bio clothing to deal with hills if I'm on foot. But again, it's only for 2.5 min, and a few parawan bites can easily keep you out of melee range to drop aggro.
SpaceSnail wrote:
Heck if jedi get that I want a stealth field generator, why not?
Anyone know how well the CAMO kits work? do they work against Players? or just mobs
Message Edited by SpaceSnail on 09-21-2005 10:54 AM
lol, Stealth Filed Gens would be nice... but the more we make this game like KOTOR, the less inclined I am to enjoy paying $15/mo to play it....
Camo kits only work on mobs, but would be a good thing to have if the worked on players...
bmill wrote:
Spookibus wrote:
I've been away from the game for about 3 weeks due to school. I've been following the threads today about so-called nerfs to Cloak.
I think many are aware that many aspects of cloak are NOT working as intended at the present time. Jedi believe cloak should be an "I win" button and that it should be unassailable. For every "I had to give up XXX skill points" post, you see a "I stay cloaked in Theed all the time" post.
What I read is this:
--Cloak will now possibly have a counter, in Ranger.
--Cloak will now include a snare so that you have to sneak when you use it.
--Cloak will break in a variety of situations in which the Jedi is doing something obvious and noisy.
This seems much more balanced in my view. It will still be a superior skill to Rifleman Cover.
It would still be extremely powerful, but there would be risks associated with its use. As it is now, it is unbreakable, uses a laughably small amount of force, and you still know the Jedi is there 90% of the time. If these changes go through, sure some Jedi will drop it and maybe pick up MDefender.
Now THAT's a skill set that needs some balancing. And if enough Jedi start picking it up, then the cycle of nerfs will continue.
Braxius, I don't see a question there. You've summed it up fairly well. The implications of the "cloak nerf" reach beyond PvP into the PvE arena as well. With a snare, Jedi will not be able to run unadulterated past npc rich areas as easily, like the DWB and Avatar. They will not be able to manipulate objects while cloaked, ie looting containers. They will also have more things that break them from cloak, like using force powers, healing, etc.
Currenlty it's used as an "I can get away" button and an "I can heal 100%" button while the Bounty Hunter has to stand around looking silly. At any point now, a Jedi can root, run, and cloak to regenerate force, heal, etc. The Bounty Hunter can also do the same, but for them, they will be taking up precious stomach space and buffs will start wanning. This brings thingsa little bit more into balance, but a Jedi with cloak will still be able to use it to get away. I think some of this was intended for them not to be able to hide and regen, then re-enter combat fully buffed/healed/forced, etc.
cloak was also being abused in the DWB as a "i'll drag agro on you're group so you all die". I've been in the dwb several times and seen claoked jedi doing this via the overhead map. we had csr's come down there and uncloak the bugger for us and boy did he die fast lol. Thank god for csr timothy V, he's the man.
diepa wrote:
bmill wrote:
WookieOgre wrote:
Ok, I'll be gentle because obviously you guys don't have this skill and don't understand the implications of the change:
:::whine:::
Now that I explained how the intended purpose of the skill will be completely worthless, lets look at the huge negatives using cloak. A BH shows up, a Jedi cloaks:
1) If a CM, they can throw ALL DoTs on the Jedi, incap them as if they heal it breaks the cloak and are attackable again
What's wrong with this? You shouldn't be able to heal/regen/buff while cloaked. No other profession in the game can do that, it's unbalanced.
Whats wrong with a CM being able to attack a cloaked Jedi? Sounds unbalanced that you can be attacked but can not heal. No other profession can cloak. Rifleman is the only one that comes close, then you cannot heal because you are prone, not because you are under cover.
All the pretty colors.... I think you misunderstood me. I took the original comment to mean that he had a problem with CM's hitting Jedi with all the states BEFORE the cloaked. I don't see a problem at all with this. Jedi have the ability to shake off DOT's right? That's fine with me, but I don't think it's "fair" that they are able to do it while cloaked.
2) Any BH can just follow the -snared- Jedi using the /follow command or droids. The Jedi is NOT allowed to logout or the Cloak will drop and you can kill them, sound like fun yet?
This is a known issue and is supposedly being fixed. It was an unintended result.
3) Any player while following the -snared- Jedi can easily do area attacks with friends to hit the Jedi, BH's will be using this one for sure.
Area attacks against another player or npc are perfectly ok. You are CLOAKED meaning invisible. You are confusing that with invincible. Just because the shooter cannot "see" you doesn't mean you aren't in the way of a blaster bolt.
You are confused yourself, he is not complaining about area attacks hitting him, he is complaining that he will not be able to move out of the line of fire because of the snare. Once again if he heals damage he looses cloak.
Can't you burst run wihle snared? It's not as if Jedi lose the burst run ability by becomming a Jedi, right? Stands to reason that they will regain mobility if using burst run. Is Force Run supposed to break the cloak?
So tell me again how you don't see this as a big nerf. It not only makes the skill worthless as what it was supposedly designed to do, but it's a death trap the moment a Jedi does infact Cloak.
Itremains to be seen how bad the snare acutally is. It's all conjecture until it hits live test/live anyway. To comment now on it, is an excercise in futility.
While it may be silly to complain about the snare til you see how bad it is, however I see no need to have a snare if they take away the ability to heal/attack/channel.
Agreed, in terms of PvP. But as I've said before in this post, I'm 100% sure that the snare was put in place to stop Jedi from cloaking and pulling around npcs in GCW base busting, or pulling npcs around in other areas like the DWB onto other groups, as another poster stated...
**and please, don't sit here and tell me they are going to fix any of the above...Devs have spoken and in no way are they going to allow it to be used as an escape/healing tactic**
Do you have some proof of this? By the way, what's wrong with hitting force run to get away from a hunter? You don't *need* cloak... Surely you can stay 80m or more out of range long enough to lost he BH tef, and pull out your small generic house to retreat into, right?
Force run is not like burst run, all Jedi do not get it, you have to get 4000 in enhancer to get FR2. Cloak is in Powers, kind of like telling a rifleman they can always root and run.
Not every Jedi has cloak either. It's a personal preference as to what you spend the skill points on. And any Rifleman who wants to "root n run" only has to get some pistoleer or novice smuggler to do it. It's as if the BH needs more than 15 seconds of root time to get out range, grab a bike and bolt like mad.
bmill wrote:
.
You are confused yourself, he is not complaining about area attacks hitting him, he is complaining that he will not be able to move out of the line of fire because of the snare. Once again if he heals damage he looses cloak.
Can't you burst run wihle snared? It's not as if Jedi lose the burst run ability by becomming a Jedi, right? Stands to reason that they will regain mobility if using burst run. Is Force Run supposed to break the cloak?
Just thought I'd tell you a Dev just announced that Forcerun (I'm assumign this includes burstrun) will cancel if a Jedi uses cloak. If a Jedi tries to burstrun or forcerun while cloak, the cloak breaks.
I believe this address people's concerns about a Jedi using brustrun or forcerun before they cloak and still retain the highspeed of movement. Cloak now will override those movement buffs.
Simple Soultion someone else mentioned.
Give Cloack a 30 second timer and then make the cool down timer last as long as the Burst Run Cool down timer which I think is like 5 mins or so.. This will allow them to get the first strike in but not allow them to continue to use it non stop. Far as PvP goes if there are more then 2-3 Creatures/NPC's in the area it will fail. Should keep them from by passing all the guards in dungeons. After all I don't remember Jedi's being able to cloak pass groups of people. From what I saw it only worked on a few at a time.
bmill wrote:
Jedi draggin is another issue altogether though. I've gone up against mdefenders with healing that can drag pretty much anything around and not have it bother them. They'll drag multiple krayts around until they aggro you, or GDKs, Rancors, etc. Is it an exploit? I suppose not, but it's sure irritating.
not an exploit but it is against the community standards and the TOS to "train" MOBs onto another player, so it should be reported. If a jedi were to "train" a MOB or two on me while I was hunting them I probably wouldnt care too much since I see it more as strategy, but sometimes it can be used to grief people and in dungeons can ruin a group's fun.