Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: what are the jedi so upset about?
Eskie wrote:
Oh come on - for one, everybody can alternate roots and snares and stay at 50m without having any serious PvP skill. On the other hand, youre saying the Jedi participating in your duels dont have PvP experience? If at all, Jedi are the profesion with the most PvP experience on average for 3 reasons: They can get jumped at any time, people say they ruin GCW (how could they if they are not PvPing?) and people say they duel in Theed.
Thassk wrote: (...)
lesser skill vs. hardened b/h skill
alternate rooots and snares? ..... to alternate roots and snares you give up healing .. and the debuffs and the dots you all seem to hate so much ....
BH is not take all ... bh is very limited in dabbling my friend .. master BH eats away many a SP .. then if you want high enough accuracy to actually do damage with your weapon you take another weapon mastery ...this leaves you with very little SP left ... usually a smart BH will put it into healing, because this will help in both PVE and PVP and dungeon running ...
MCM is one of the few ways to get both a snare and a root, but the root is not to gain distance .. since you have to be right up close and personal to the jedi to lay it ... with the limited amount of time it lasts its only there so you can apply a couple of ( maybe 3 )debuffs ... its not meant to help you gain distance ...
there WAS a time when my carb cripple shot stacked with my ED .. but the devs removed it ( without any mention in the publish notes) because they felt it was overpowered against jedi ..but jedi dont hear of such changes....
if a jedi picked up master LS .. farmed pearls for a saber around 650 damage and low FC...( which is possible my post CU friend has done it ... from the pearls hes gotten while hunting krayts with me) ... pick up few lines in defender .. or even the whole mastery .. maybe something like 0003 2003 or 3002 enhancer they are gonna be a tough son of a gun to beat ...
you stack a 2300 energy defensepsg on top of that ... and get your hands on melee and otherdefense ca's ... as well as all the tapes you can .. healing enhancement ...max your force .. wear a 4 slotted +16 melee defense shirt, neutralize bleeding with some bleeding defense pants ... add to that terrain negotiation gloves or bandolier, ...and eat and drink theright foods ( for jedi that syntsteak and vegaparsine ...the fire absorption food ( the name escapes me right now) .. stock up on mushroom pie ( offer to buy it from anyone .. offer people 1 mill just to go run the kashyyk quest to get the pie) say if you find three of em thats 60 uses ... ... and always make a point to try to be around a doc ... or keep buffed ( sure its annoying but safe) ...and now keep around a SL .. ( there should be plenty around .. your guild should have someone dedicated enough to make a SL to help guildies out and its not infringing on their enjoyment of the game since the proffession right now rocks ...
you will be an entity to be reckoned with ... the poison and fire absoprtion food takes care of a CM's dots .. you got the bleed resistence which will protect you against most opponents ...if you get stuck with a speed debuff you fight out of it with the mushroom pie ...if you get low on force pop a holocron ( they are extremely cheap) and use your enhancer abilities to convert action when ya need it ...
always bring the BH close to you .. dont fight him in an open field where he will have the advantage ... get close to buildings cut off his line of sight by cutting a corner real quick while your runnin ... fight in small rooms in buildings of the non player cities ... bring the fight to YOUR terms ...
too many jedi play the game with a victim mentality .. and that mentality is the biggest detriment to their PVP prowess .. NOT their templates ....
Message Edited by Thassk on 10-21-2005 06:35 AM
BloodMonk wrote:
you guys DO know there's a new food to counter the CM snare right???????
Who is complaining about the CM snare? The problem are the other snares that there are no counters for. The only problem with the CM snare is that it requires melee people to carry a certain food with them to have a chance at all (remember reliance on buffs pre-CU?).
Akast wrote:
is it the snare thing? or the SL thing. ive neever seen such unhappiness before sure they whine alot but this, is extreme
Thassk wrote:
Eskie wrote:Oh come on - for one, everybody can alternate roots and snares and stay at 50m without having any serious PvP skill. On the other hand, youre saying the Jedi participating in your duels dont have PvP experience? If at all, Jedi are the profesion with the most PvP experience on average for 3 reasons: They can get jumped at any time, people say they ruin GCW (how could they if they are not PvPing?) and people say they duel in Theed.
Thassk wrote: (...)lesser skill vs. hardened b/h skill
alternate rooots and snares? ..... to alternate roots and snares you give up healing .. and the debuffs and the dots you all seem to hate so much ....
BH is not take all ... bh is very limited in dabbling my friend .. master BH eats away many a SP .. then if you want high enough accuracy to actually do damage with your weapon you take another weapon mastery ...this leaves you with very little SP left ... usually a smart BH will put it into healing, because this will help in both PVE and PVP and dungeon running ...
MCM is one of the few ways to get both a snare and a root, but the root is not to gain distance .. since you have to be right up close and personal to the jedi to lay it ... with the limited amount of time it lasts its only there so you can apply a couple of ( maybe 3 ) debuffs ... its not meant to help you gain distance ...
there WAS a time when my carb cripple shot stacked with my ED .. but the devs removed it ( without any mention in the publish notes) because they felt it was overpowered against jedi ..but jedi dont hear of such changes....
if a jedi picked up master LS .. farmed pearls for a saber around 650 damage and low FC...( which is possible my post CU friend has done it ... from the pearls hes gotten while hunting krayts with me) ... pick up few lines in defender .. or even the whole mastery .. maybe something like 0003 2003 or 3002 enhancer they are gonna be a tough son of a gun to beat ...
you stack a 2300 energy defense psg on top of that ... and get your hands on melee and other defense ca's ... as well as all the tapes you can .. healing enhancement ...max your force .. wear a 4 slotted +16 melee defense shirt, neutralize bleeding with some bleeding defense pants ... add to that terrain negotiation gloves or bandolier, ...and eat and drink the right foods ( for jedi that syntsteak and vegaparsine ...the fire absorption food ( the name escapes me right now) .. stock up on mushroom pie ( offer to buy it from anyone .. offer people 1 mill just to go run the kashyyk quest to get the pie) say if you find three of em thats 60 uses ... ... and always make a point to try to be around a doc ... or keep buffed ( sure its annoying but safe) ...and now keep around a SL .. ( there should be plenty around .. your guild should have someone dedicated enough to make a SL to help guildies out and its not infringing on their enjoyment of the game since the proffession right now rocks ...
you will be an entity to be reckoned with ... the poison and fire absoprtion food takes care of a CM's dots .. you got the bleed resistence which will protect you against most opponents ...if you get stuck with a speed debuff you fight out of it with the mushroom pie ...if you get low on force pop a holocron ( they are extremely cheap) and use your enhancer abilities to convert action when ya need it ...
always bring the BH close to you .. dont fight him in an open field where he will have the advantage ... get close to buildings cut off his line of sight by cutting a corner real quick while your runnin ... fight in small rooms in buildings of the non player cities ... bring the fight to YOUR terms ...
too many jedi play the game with a victim mentality .. and that mentality is the biggest detriment to their PVP prowess .. NOT their templates ....
Message Edited by Thassk on 10-21-2005 06:35 AM
I didnt ask for an essay about how to fight as a Jedi. You are assuming a few things:
a) A Jedi needs to be MLS to survive
b) A Jedi needs to have some defender to survive
c) A Jedi needs to be Enh 2xx2 to survive
d) A Jedi can actually get close to a BH when the BH is applying perma-snares (this is not the case)
e) A Jedi needs to have doc buffs at all times
f) A Jedi needs to have SL buffs at all times
g) A Jedi cannot be one-shot incapped by SL-buffed riflemen even though he has his own SL buffs.
h) A Jedi can pick the location of the fight (wrong, a BH can - thats the whole intend of being able to strike first)
All of those assumptions are either faulty or require a Jedi (which is meant to be a solo profession in hiding according to BHs) to be grouped with a Doc and a SL at all times (and them being close by).
Let me ask you one thing: Is something wrong when people are one-shot incapped or being killed by non-armored non-healing opponents without ever being able to get an attack move in (and were talking about experienced PvPers here).
EvilAztec wrote:
Ok, for the sake of argument imaginebelow are your new patch notes: (I am not advocating these changes, nor want them, just imagine it for you!)
All ranged weapon drops above +25 will not be dropping until we enhance the creatures carrying them. We're sorry for the inconvenience, and maybe six months later we'll look at it again. Wait did a player catch us on this yet, umm, nothing's wrong with drops until you catch us.
We broke weapon speed with the last publish but won't fix it until we feel like it, and we don't yet, not only that, we won't reallyadmit to it until some smart players prove it mathematically.
Critical Shot now only does 1.1 times normal damage.
We know that people appreciated the change to +cover+ for players in groups, however that wasn't quite the way the skill was intended to be used. As such we are draining your action every second you're covered and cutting your movement speed to 1/4 what it was.
The CM speed debuff has been ruled out of balance and will be changed to -10, we know it's less than either the doc or jedi buff now, and we won't explain the logic behind it, but its for the better of the game. (Because doc/jedi buffs were changed and cm debuff was not)
The mind bar regenwill be fixed when we get around to it, but again, only after several players can prove it's broken, and no less than several months later.
All ranged weapons have a range of 32m because ranged arms were abused.
The AB slice is only 25% as effective as it used to be. (No reason given to players on change)
Squad leader buffs reduced 50% and costs raised 25% to improve balance.
All Swordsman, Fencer, andTK weapons are now energy (no reason given).
Sniper shot now has a 10s warmup and 15s cooldown.
Roots and Snares have been reworked to be only 5 seconds with a 2 min reapplication timer.
---
Doesn't sound like fun does it? That's happened to Jedi every publish since Jan 04 effectively. Not all at once mind you, one papercut at a time. Since BH is the new Alpha, expect the papercuts to start. I won't advocate it, but I'm sure not going to go out of my way to stop it.
Akast wrote:
is it the snare thing? or the SL thing. ive neever seen such unhappiness before sure they whine alot but this, is extreme
my city hall on talus .. is stacked with hundreds of tissues and scales ... I have religiously hunted krayt since i got my first combat mastery ...
Message Edited by Thassk on 10-21-2005 06:57 AM
Thassk wrote:
(...) ... but with two character slots ... you have twice the ability to make money to buy your pearls ...
This assumption is also wrong. Besides the lots and skill points, time is also a limit for making money, and you can only play one toon at the same time.
Furthermore, if you buy tissues for 12 million you are guaranteed a capped weapon, while a premium pearl for 25 million only has a slight chance to tune to the cap. My guesstimate is that you need about 60 premium pearls on average to get a near-capped saber (according to pre-CU knights), so your your logic of only needing double the money (or loot time) than a BH to get a capped weapon is also flawed in that aspect.
I didnt ask for an essay about how to fight as a Jedi. You are assuming a few things:
a) A Jedi needs to be MLS to survive
b) A Jedi needs to have some defender to survive
c) A Jedi needs to be Enh 2xx2 to survive
d) A Jedi can actually get close to a BH when the BH is applying perma-snares (this is not the case)
e) A Jedi needs to have doc buffs at all times
f) A Jedi needs to have SL buffs at all times
g) A Jedi cannot be one-shot incapped by SL-buffed riflemen even though he has his own SL buffs.
h) A Jedi can pick the location of the fight (wrong, a BH can - thats the whole intend of being able to strike first)
All of those assumptions are either faulty or require a Jedi (which is meant to be a solo profession in hiding according to BHs) to be grouped with a Doc and a SL at all times (and them being close by).
Let me ask you one thing: Is something wrong when people are one-shot incapped or being killed by non-armored non-healing opponents without ever being able to get an attack move in (and were talking about experienced PvPers here).
so what are you saying? you dont want to DO anything? you dont want to SACRIFICE anything ?.. and still win most of the time in PVP?
Message Edited by Thassk on 10-21-2005 07:01 AM
Premiums go for 25+ million right now. Flawless for 40+m.Do you even play now? I digress,all your old tissues and such, but I forgota couplechanges, thanks for reminding me!:
Tissues now have quality levels, a weaponsmith must use his mind to pick out the best tissues, but even the best can tune the worst and vice versa. No it doesn't make any sense and you don't find out until after you put it in the weapon. However the chance for a really good pick is ridiculously low and you won't have a good weapon without it.
Scales follow the same system above for armor. Again, sorry for the lack of defenses if you get a bad pick, but just keep trying. Some people have gotten it in as few as the number of scales/feathers needed for their armor, others have picked over 320 and are still subpar. No it still doesn't make any sense, but you'll just have to live.
Thassk wrote:
EvilAztec wrote:
Ok, for the sake of argument imaginebelow are your new patch notes: (I am not advocating these changes, nor want them, just imagine it for you!)
All ranged weapon drops above +25 will not be dropping until we enhance the creatures carrying them. We're sorry for the inconvenience, and maybe six months later we'll look at it again. Wait did a player catch us on this yet, umm, nothing's wrong with drops until you catch us.
We broke weapon speed with the last publish but won't fix it until we feel like it, and we don't yet, not only that, we won't reallyadmit to it until some smart players prove it mathematically.
Critical Shot now only does 1.1 times normal damage.
We know that people appreciated the change to +cover+ for players in groups, however that wasn't quite the way the skill was intended to be used. As such we are draining your action every second you're covered and cutting your movement speed to 1/4 what it was.
The CM speed debuff has been ruled out of balance and will be changed to -10, we know it's less than either the doc or jedi buff now, and we won't explain the logic behind it, but its for the better of the game. (Because doc/jedi buffs were changed and cm debuff was not)
The mind bar regenwill be fixed when we get around to it, but again, only after several players can prove it's broken, and no less than several months later.
All ranged weapons have a range of 32m because ranged arms were abused.
The AB slice is only 25% as effective as it used to be. (No reason given to players on change)
Squad leader buffs reduced 50% and costs raised 25% to improve balance.
All Swordsman, Fencer, andTK weapons are now energy (no reason given).
Sniper shot now has a 10s warmup and 15s cooldown.
Roots and Snares have been reworked to be only 5 seconds with a 2 min reapplication timer.
---
Doesn't sound like fun does it? That's happened to Jedi every publish since Jan 04 effectively. Not all at once mind you, one papercut at a time. Since BH is the new Alpha, expect the papercuts to start. I won't advocate it, but I'm sure not going to go out of my way to stop it.
Akast wrote:
is it the snare thing? or the SL thing. ive neever seen such unhappiness before sure they whine alot but this, is extreme
my city hall on talus .. is stacked with hundreds of tissues and scales ... I have religiously hunted krayt since i got my first combat mastery ...
there was never a time .. where *I* hunted krayt, pre CU from october 2004 to maybe march/april 2005 ...where i found high damage tissues .. easier than i found premium pearls .. at one time id get a premium pearl with every giant i killed ...
NOW. post cu ... although i dont get premium or flawless pearls ... i still will hunt krayt for maybe 6 hours ... id accumilate MANY pearls ... but maybe one set of 6 damage tissues over 120 if that .....( 120 is even rare)
as we all know to cap a rifle or carbine you need +5 or +6 damage tissues 180+ ...
so its not like tissues fall out of the sky for us ... a good set of power celss goes for 12 million easy ... easy ...keep in mind this is enough to make one rifle ...
premium pearls are still being sold twice the price ... but with two character slots ... you have twice the ability to make money to buy your pearls ...
Eskie wrote:
Thassk wrote:
(...) ... but with two character slots ... you have twice the ability to make money to buy your pearls ...
This assumption is also wrong. Besides the lots and skill points, time is also a limit for making money, and you can only play one toon at the same time.
Furthermore, if you buy tissues for 12 million you are guaranteed a capped weapon, while a premium pearl for 25 million only has a slight chance to tune to the cap. My guesstimate is that you need about 60 premium pearls on average to get a near-capped saber (according to pre-CU knights), so your your logic of only needing double the money (or loot time) than a BH to get a capped weapon is also flawed in that aspect.
a crafter doesnt need to be on 24/7 .... he makes money while hes offline ... his vendors should be stocked ... a protocol droid should be advertising for him ...
Thassk wrote:
Eskie wrote:
Thassk wrote:
(...) ... but with two character slots ... you have twice the ability to make money to buy your pearls ...
This assumption is also wrong. Besides the lots and skill points, time is also a limit for making money, and you can only play one toon at the same time.
Furthermore, if you buy tissues for 12 million you are guaranteed a capped weapon, while a premium pearl for 25 million only has a slight chance to tune to the cap. My guesstimate is that you need about 60 premium pearls on average to get a near-capped saber (according to pre-CU knights), so your your logic of only needing double the money (or loot time) than a BH to get a capped weapon is also flawed in that aspect.
a crafter doesnt need to be on 24/7 .... he makes money while hes offline ... his vendors should be stocked ... a protocol droid should be advertising for him ...
And you are saying you can make more money crafting on a Jedi alt than a BH can loot hunting the boss NPC marks? Look into your trade boards.
Thassk wrote:
(...)
I didnt ask for an essay about how to fight as a Jedi. You are assuming a few things:
a) A Jedi needs to be MLS to survive
b) A Jedi needs to have some defender to survive
c) A Jedi needs to be Enh 2xx2 to survive
d) A Jedi can actually get close to a BH when the BH is applying perma-snares (this is not the case)
e) A Jedi needs to have doc buffs at all times
f) A Jedi needs to have SL buffs at all times
g) A Jedi cannot be one-shot incapped by SL-buffed riflemen even though he has his own SL buffs.
h) A Jedi can pick the location of the fight (wrong, a BH can - thats the whole intend of being able to strike first)
All of those assumptions are either faulty or require a Jedi (which is meant to be a solo profession in hiding according to BHs) to be grouped with a Doc and a SL at all times (and them being close by).
Let me ask you one thing: Is something wrong when people are one-shot incapped or being killed by non-armored non-healing opponents without ever being able to get an attack move in (and were talking about experienced PvPers here).
so what are you saying? you dont want to DO anything? you dont want to SACRIFICE anything ? .. and still win most of the time in PVP?
What can Jedi do about letters d) and g)? Jedi are upset because it does not take a dedicated, battle-hardened, experienced BH anymore to take down an equally skilled Jedi. Thats why Jedi are upset, to come back to the original topic of this thread.
Eskie wrote:
Thassk wrote:
Eskie wrote:
Thassk wrote:
(...) ... but with two character slots ... you have twice the ability to make money to buy your pearls ...
This assumption is also wrong. Besides the lots and skill points, time is also a limit for making money, and you can only play one toon at the same time.
Furthermore, if you buy tissues for 12 million you are guaranteed a capped weapon, while a premium pearl for 25 million only has a slight chance to tune to the cap. My guesstimate is that you need about 60 premium pearls on average to get a near-capped saber (according to pre-CU knights), so your your logic of only needing double the money (or loot time) than a BH to get a capped weapon is also flawed in that aspect.
a crafter doesnt need to be on 24/7 .... he makes money while hes offline ... his vendors should be stocked ... a protocol droid should be advertising for him ...
And you are saying you can make more money crafting on a Jedi alt than a BH can loot hunting the boss NPC marks? Look into your trade boards.
yes ... with capitol behind me absolutely ...use jedi to farm high end loot ... and use the master merchant to sell it .. and a master armorsmith ...
i do not hunt NPC missions ... i make my money farming GDK scales .. krayt pearls .. crystals .. attachments .. holocrons ... there are lots of beats and NPC's who drop awesome loot besides BH marks .. its just a matter of asking questions and doing your research ... you can embark on questing and make a fortune just by setting up quest item vendors .....
you go kill a fe GDK .. get 9 scales, go kill gurk till ya spawn a few kings get the hides... take you maybe half a day at the most ...then make a deal with a guildy to break open a resource crate reward ... offer him money after ya sell your armor ... throw in a few krayt +8 health scales off the bazaar which go for liek 5k each ...
build a suit of ris .. you could sell it for 15 million EASY ... thats 15 million every day or two ...within a week youd have 50 million credits ...
within 3 weeks youd have enough to buy your premiums pearls ..