Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: what are the jedi so upset about?
Thassk wrote:
what are the jedi so upset about?
i dont know but its leaving a bad taste in my mouth ....and not because i think their right ..
they should stop .. they have ruined the game enough ...id hate to see potential new subscribers lost, because of the ridiculousness they will see when scanning the forums to learn about the game ...its one thing to have 1 to 5 threads ... and post within those threads ...
its another to have 3 pages of threads in the jedi forum alone ( with countless deleted) .. and then have jedi spill it onto the other forums ...they are like spoiled children getting loud to get what they want ...
accept the fact jedi is no longer alpha but just another regular proffession... consider your free alternate character slot the reward for your grinding ...
Message Edited by Thassk on 10-21-2005 05:35 AM
I have no problem making jedi like normal toons... but then get rid of exp loss. You make my point perfectly... if exp loss was removed there would be NO outcry.
no. most new people dont go to the forums immediately. they play the game alot first so thats a weak response.
and it is the snare...well. its actually, from my standpoint a few things.
the crystal/pearl drops- now you need a full powerful group, no less to fight kyrats and npcs are powerful. a weak saber is useless againsed these.
the snare. yes, 100 second snare is pretty long and if i were a bh, i could pretty much destroy ANY jedi with such a snare, as an mcm/bh with that snare. then if u have stopping shot...no way can they touch you. easy kill.
now, the SL, im not sure about, but i heard they hit pretty hard.
so, for me, thats the (primarily) point of it. jedi have no chance. you dont need good pvp skills because as melee, youll never touch a person with snare. i would snare, unload out of range, when it wears off, root or thyroid or electrolyte, snare again, with that, you can kill any jedi.
Thassk wrote:
Eskie wrote:
Akast wrote:
is it the snare thing? or the SL thing. ive neever seen such unhappiness before sure they whine alot but this, is extreme
Both. And its not just Jedi, its melee players in general. It just happens to be in the Jedi boards because GarVa chose to post his thread there.
Aside from that, the SL stuff should be concerning for ranged players, also. If a Master Defender with Aura up gets hit for 8k+ by an ALR or HLR before armor mitigations, any ranged player without CoB or Aura is insta-toast.
(...)
ya but ... just because the ranged people havent screamed prior to this doesnt mean melee was totally unbalanced ...
Who ever said melee stackers with healing are not overpowered?
However, even if they are overpowered, the current snare implementation is not the solution because it is not just balancing, it is totally yanking around the balance to give ranged players an "I win" button against any type of melee player. As of now, "snare" is an attack that does not have any counters, and therefore is even worse than Force Cloak that a lot of BHs are complaining about. Thats the snare issue.
The SL buff issue is another thing - a Rifleman / SL (or Rifleman / BH with SL buddy) being able to dish out insta-incaps on a regular basis (which should not be happening according to CU design docs) is a major unbalance, also.
Patch 24 is not a balancing pass - Patch 24 is moving the inbalance from one extreme to the other, as devs have done very often in the past.
Sorry but nothing is worse than force cloak.
as for you neeo, ive hunted some 300 jedi, when was the last time i was killed by a jedi?, i cant remeber a long time ago. I dont like jedi at all, im no fan of jedi, im merely speaking the truth, its starting to get boring. not really a challenge anymore
Message Edited by Stecoli on 10-21-2005 06:03 AM
Digitalalchemyzt wrote:
no. most new people dont go to the forums immediately. they play the game alot first so thats a weak response.
and it is the snare...well. its actually, from my standpoint a few things.
the crystal/pearl drops- now you need a full powerful group, no less to fight kyrats and npcs are powerful. a weak saber is useless againsed these.
the snare. yes, 100 second snare is pretty long and if i were a bh, i could pretty much destroy ANY jedi with such a snare, as an mcm/bh with that snare. then if u have stopping shot...no way can they touch you. easy kill.
now, the SL, im not sure about, but i heard they hit pretty hard.
so, for me, thats the (primarily) point of it. jedi have no chance. you dont need good pvp skills because as melee, youll never touch a person with snare. i would snare, unload out of range, when it wears off, root or thyroid or electrolyte, snare again, with that, you can kill any jedi.
i dont agree with you in regards to jedi .. i know plenty of jedi .. who can still tank two BH at once ... and who areextremely hard to beat in duels ..
we have PVP tournaments on my server frequently .. and swordsman and jedi are consistently the hardest templates to beat, and usually the winners...when a ranged proffession does win, there is no doubt that watching the fight they do it by overpowering the person with skill ( this means perfect execution of heals, using their moves at the perfect time .and using the best equipment/buff options available to them ....and not panicking when their mind or action gets low but fighting back up from it ...
i remember at one tournament which i had won ...i had to beat a swordsman the fight itself took 40 minutes, and i executed perfectly, had i made one mistake,i would have been dead. the swordsman had made several throughout the fight. in another i progressed to the final rounds only to get beaten by a TKM, who didnt have healing i dont think, and the fight lasted maybe 4 minutes 5 minutes at the most ...
in many many of the other trounaments i have gone to i have seen jedi win .. and win frequently
when it comes to skill vs skill .. templates are balanced ... i still contend the "imbalance" many people feel is largely due to lack of experience and skill ....
lesser skill vs. hardenedb/h skill
Message Edited by Thassk on 10-21-2005 06:06 AM
Stecoli wrote:
Sorry but nothing is worse than force cloak.
as for you neeo, ive hunted some 300 jedi, when was the last time i was killed by a jedi?, i cant remeber a long time ago. I dont like jedi at all, im no fan of jedi, im merely speaking the truth.
Message Edited by Stecoli on 10-21-2005 06:02 AM
As it is right now, Force Cloak in combination with roots, snares and maybe mezzes is the only counter to ranged kiters that still is viable, or you will never catch up since you are perma-snared.
The problem is not all professions have access to Force Cloak. This is majorly unbalancing the GCW, more than Force Cloak ever has. Nobody gets killed by an opponent cloaking, people do get killed by being perma-snared and under constant fire from 20+m.
Thassk wrote:
(...)lesser skill vs. hardened b/h skill
Oh come on - for one, everybody can alternate roots and snares and stay at 50m without having any serious PvP skill.
On the other hand, youre saying the Jedi participating in your duels dont have PvP experience? If at all, Jedi are the profesion with the most PvP experience on average for 3 reasons: They can get jumped at any time, people say they ruin GCW (how could they if they are not PvPing?) and people say they duel in Theed.
Digitalalchemyzt wrote:
i got to pvp tourneys too. and u are correct about the finalist. but a pvp tourney setting (if it was like ours, enclosed) is nothing like an actual visit from a bh. if a bh cant kill a jedi now, let alone two, i question their skill level. that snare is an EXTREMELY powerful thing to have.
just the one was enclosed ... and we had our option to fight outside the cage, but i walked into the cage without protest .. underestimating my opponent
Thassk wrote:
Eskie wrote:
Akast wrote:
is it the snare thing? or the SL thing. ive neever seen such unhappiness before sure they whine alot but this, is extreme
Both. And its not just Jedi, its melee players in general. It just happens to be in the Jedi boards because GarVa chose to post his thread there.
Aside from that, the SL stuff should be concerning for ranged players, also. If a Master Defender with Aura up gets hit for 8k+ by an ALR or HLR before armor mitigations, any ranged player without CoB or Aura is insta-toast.
ya but ... just becausethe rangedpeoplehavent screamed prior to this doesnt mean melee was totally unbalanced ...
as a ranged proffession who gets out there and duels every other day for the heck of it .. i know for a fact melee proffessions have been incredibly imbalanced in that they were powerful ..
maybe other servers lag behind radiant in PVP and dueltactics i dont know .. but havent any of you seen the swordsman/bh. or swordsman/doc goliaths out there who not only can destroy any ranged proffession but destroy jedi in a straight up fair 1 vs 1 buff vs buff fight?
i honestly dont have an opinion yet about patch 24 havent logged in game since it was initialized on the live servers, today will be my frist day ...but prior to patch 24 ... there is no way melee was nerfed or underpowered in any sense ...
Message Edited by Thassk on 10-21-2005 05:50 AM
Digitalalchemyzt wrote:
i got to pvp tourneys too. and u are correct about the finalist. but a pvp tourney setting (if it was like ours, enclosed) is nothing like an actual visit from a bh. if a bh cant kill a jedi now, let alone two, i question their skill level. that snare is an EXTREMELY powerful thing to have.
Also, the generic stuff is 15 fill, one minute duration. Enhancers may last two, but requires high quality milk, and won't be around long.
Also, any good bh with snare now cannot be killed. If he is smart, he can kite away. Yes, the snare will wear off, and I can use my own snares/roots to the best of my ability. I get close, wail on him like hell, all he can do is heal.. his mind gets down next to nothing, Eventually my debuffs on him wear off, he roots or paralyzes me, runs off and just uses stimpacks against my /saberthrows, while his mind regins back to near-full. (oh, and about 10 minutes in got full off rancor aid)
This can go on forever, if jedi didn't have a force bar But eventually we must flee or die. The smart bh'ers who know bar management controll cannot be killed if they have a ranged snare.