Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Questions for Tanks have the Devs given any information on their end goal for BH-v-Jedi ballance?
Tanks wrote:
Slayer-Titan wrote:
hmm...seems like you will still have a 50/50 chance of paddy/knight...probally better chance to get a paddy
Every Paddy mission I took last night was on Kashyyyk with the exception of one that was in Space. I have a feeling that after this Publish, the odds of finding a Paddy on huntable planets will be almost nil.
Tanks wrote:
They think Publish 19 changesmakes it pretty even. I have been communicating that is not really true all things being equal. I guess we'll find out. I will have a sticky feedback thread on missions after Publish 20.
Wow, thats discouraging. I'll play Publish 20 to my fullest, and give it an honest try and even many try's.
Heres my wishful thinking request, in a perfect world. They need to start paying me for this testing crap, and give free arakyds for all BH till they fix that LOS bug and make seeker droids work on kashyyk. 
Tucheck wrote:
Tanks wrote:
They think Publish 19 changes makes it pretty even. I have been communicating that is not really true all things being equal. I guess we'll find out. I will have a sticky feedback thread on missions after Publish 20.
Darth_Spike wrote:
So my question is: have the devs comunicated to you if they have a plan for how MBH templates will ballance against various Jedi templates?
It's interesting to see that they think so Tanks.
Although there is one significant difference in Pub 20 that SHOULD change their minds. The introduction of the MBH cert in order to obtain Jedi missions changes EVERYTHING about being an effective Bounty Hunter. While I have always been tethered to the MBH title...if the Devs were basing this new sense of "balance" on a BHs ability to have 2 full combat elite professions AND INV III...this will simply not be the case after Pub 20 when our overall strength will be limited, and have a greater dependency on the Bounty Hunter tree as a whole. As it has always been well known...only in the BH profession could a Novice BH be more effective then a Master Bounty Hunter. I DO hope they take these new "limitations" into consideration.
I'll bet the devs did this to give Jedi some sort of advantage without actually giving them any more power. Remember, Jedi still have to face non-BH templates when they go overt in the GCW everyday. The making MBH required could be just to make sure there is not too much of an advantage to BH's (with being able to choose when/where) so maybe this was there answer. I really wish I could read the devs thoughts on everything and maybe it would make sense to me but I doubt it.
I don't understand how the devs can do these things and not realize the problem on Kashyyyk. How are Bh's suppose to find their mark on that planet if they don't have a name? I predict the only Jedi you will find on a regular planet willhave full temps. Not everyone can take down a full temp Jedi solo.
I hereby declare Kashyyyk renamed PaddieVille. Because after publish 20, that planet will be swarmed with them, even worse than it is now...................
WookieOgre wrote:
Tanks wrote:
They think Publish 19 changes makes it pretty even. I have been communicating that is not really true all things being equal. I guess we'll find out. I will have a sticky feedback thread on missions after Publish 20.
Darth_Spike wrote:
So my question is: have the devs comunicated to you if they have a plan for how MBH templates will ballance against various Jedi templates?
May I ask what you still think is unbalanced? Keep in mind BH's are not the only profession that fights Jedi, non-BH's fight overt Jedi's all the time. Where one Jedi template might be extremely hard to conquer as a MBH template, there might be another non-MBH that can kill the Jedi. I believe you were quick to point out all the time pre-19 that until Jedi healing advantage was taken away you would not consider BH missions being 1vs1 fights. Only thing different in our skills from patch19 is we can actually do the same damage as you now, at a lesser range, less force, less action costs, less healing lol.What else in your opinon needs to change to make the 1vs1 fight even? Not trying to be difficult just looking at the reasoning behind your "all things are not equal" combat wise.
I might be able to answer that for him. There is 1 template that might be able to beat a Jedi, if you can outlast his force, so maybe we are talking 3 out of 10 fights? I dont know the numbers but if you are that CM temp and you are a great pvper going up against a great pvping Jedi you are still at a disadvantage.
So are you trying to say Jedi is a balanced profession now? We have to work off of action which goes pretty quick, your force lasts about 5 times as long, give or take. Jedi are docs, tanks and now damage dealers. True you are melee, with a 35m saber throw, but you also have a nice root (better than most MBH's pistoleer root) and you have some gimpy force move that makes it so i tippy toe everywhere i go, which turns the ranged guy into a pinata. Not to mention the drains and everything else you get.
You may think its balanced if you are no good at pvp, since you cant heal 24/7 on your back anymore. But it's really not.
Well that kinda sums it up.
HyprHypo wrote:
WookieOgre wrote:
Tanks wrote:
They think Publish 19 changes makes it pretty even. I have been communicating that is not really true all things being equal. I guess we'll find out. I will have a sticky feedback thread on missions after Publish 20.
Darth_Spike wrote:
So my question is: have the devs comunicated to you if they have a plan for how MBH templates will ballance against various Jedi templates?
May I ask what you still think is unbalanced? Keep in mind BH's are not the only profession that fights Jedi, non-BH's fight overt Jedi's all the time. Where one Jedi template might be extremely hard to conquer as a MBH template, there might be another non-MBH that can kill the Jedi. I believe you were quick to point out all the time pre-19 that until Jedi healing advantage was taken away you would not consider BH missions being 1vs1 fights. Only thing different in our skills from patch19 is we can actually do the same damage as you now, at a lesser range, less force, less action costs, less healing lol.
What else in your opinon needs to change to make the 1vs1 fight even? Not trying to be difficult just looking at the reasoning behind your "all things are not equal" combat wise.
I might be able to answer that for him. There is 1 template that might be able to beat a Jedi, if you can outlast his force, so maybe we are talking 3 out of 10 fights? I dont know the numbers but if you are that CM temp and you are a great pvper going up against a great pvping Jedi you are still at a disadvantage.
So are you trying to say Jedi is a balanced profession now? We have to work off of action which goes pretty quick, your force lasts about 5 times as long, give or take. Jedi are docs, tanks and now damage dealers. True you are melee, with a 35m saber throw, but you also have a nice root (better than most MBH's pistoleer root) and you have some gimpy force move that makes it so i tippy toe everywhere i go, which turns the ranged guy into a pinata. Not to mention the drains and everything else you get.
You may think its balanced if you are no good at pvp, since you cant heal 24/7 on your back anymore. But it's really not.
Well that kinda sums it up.
You do realize that jedi do not get all these powers in every template? All the complaints about limited templates when your main foe is even more limited in their selection of effective templates is really quite funny.
plonger wrote:
HyprHypo wrote:
WookieOgre wrote:
Tanks wrote:
They think Publish 19 changes makes it pretty even. I have been communicating that is not really true all things being equal. I guess we'll find out. I will have a sticky feedback thread on missions after Publish 20.
Darth_Spike wrote:
So my question is: have the devs comunicated to you if they have a plan for how MBH templates will ballance against various Jedi templates?
May I ask what you still think is unbalanced? Keep in mind BH's are not the only profession that fights Jedi, non-BH's fight overt Jedi's all the time. Where one Jedi template might be extremely hard to conquer as a MBH template, there might be another non-MBH that can kill the Jedi. I believe you were quick to point out all the time pre-19 that until Jedi healing advantage was taken away you would not consider BH missions being 1vs1 fights. Only thing different in our skills from patch19 is we can actually do the same damage as you now, at a lesser range, less force, less action costs, less healing lol.What else in your opinon needs to change to make the 1vs1 fight even? Not trying to be difficult just looking at the reasoning behind your "all things are not equal" combat wise.
I might be able to answer that for him. There is 1 template that might be able to beat a Jedi, if you can outlast his force, so maybe we are talking 3 out of 10 fights? I dont know the numbers but if you are that CM temp and you are a great pvper going up against a great pvping Jedi you are still at a disadvantage.
So are you trying to say Jedi is a balanced profession now? We have to work off of action which goes pretty quick, your force lasts about 5 times as long, give or take. Jedi are docs, tanks and now damage dealers. True you are melee, with a 35m saber throw, but you also have a nice root (better than most MBH's pistoleer root) and you have some gimpy force move that makes it so i tippy toe everywhere i go, which turns the ranged guy into a pinata. Not to mention the drains and everything else you get.
You may think its balanced if you are no good at pvp, since you cant heal 24/7 on your back anymore. But it's really not.
Well that kinda sums it up.
You do realize that jedi do not get all these powers in every template? All the complaints about limited templates when your main foe is even more limited in their selection of effective templates is really quite funny.
I understand but most everyone is this FOTM which is too powerful. Everytime I fight a Jedi they have some version of this. Its certain trees that are too powerful
HyprHypo wrote:
I might be able to answer that for him. There is 1 template that might be able to beat a Jedi, if you can outlast his force, so maybe we are talking 3 out of 10 fights? I dont know the numbers but if you are that CM temp and you are a great pvper going up against a great pvping Jedi you are still at a disadvantage.
So are you trying to say Jedi is a balanced profession now? We have to work off of action which goes pretty quick, your force lasts about 5 times as long, give or take. Jedi are docs, tanks and now damage dealers. True you are melee, with a 35m saber throw, but you also have a nice root (better than most MBH's pistoleer root) and you have some gimpy force move that makes it so i tippy toe everywhere i go, which turns the ranged guy into a pinata. Not to mention the drains and everything else you get.
You may think its balanced if you are no good at pvp, since you cant heal 24/7 on your back anymore. But it's really not.
Well that kinda sums it up.
1) Jedi works off action as well although the devs changed it (maybe a little too good) the last patch that action drain is so minimal it would take a CM debuff to make us drain completely (but obviously it can be done). I've seen players using low sac Rifles with PU's that never have problems with action regen. The only time I'd say that it will be a problem is if you let the Jedi hit you with a healer debuffer but I can assure most Jedi do not even have and CM's version of that skill is actually much better.
2) Jedi are not equal to Docs or 4xxx Dabblers. We are at a disadvantage in healing now.
3) We are tanks and very good at it if we choose to be, however, so is a melee stacked non-Jedi template. Tanks are not the end game, Crowdcontrol specials > Tanks if you use them correctly. If you are asking to nerf Jedi in someway then you are asking to nerf regular Melee templates and I can assure you Melee is not going to stand for anymore nerfs. The only skills that a BH could really complain about is valor which gives us a boost of 25 more block. Other than that Master Defender gives not much more than a stacked Melee template (actually they can outdamage a Jeid still with a Powerhammer).
4) Damage Dealers, I agree a highpowered saber is a damage dealer at MLS now, no doubt. However, it has come to my attention that Smugglers can slice armor to 75% Armor break resists which will severly nerf the very Attack that Tanks believe is too uber and must go in the MLS box. I can't tell you how much of a nerf 75% reduction to our armor break would be to our damage potential, lets just say we are back to being pistoleer damage dealers.
5) Saber throw is great, and it's true we are the only melee to have a 32m attack. HOwever once again it's one attack and you must be in range to use it. BH's have the ability to hit you/kite you from 80m away. This skill actually just balances Jedi with ranged professions more. I feel for regular melee with no ability like this but quite frankly we are Jedi and this is one of the few perks to Jedi that are left.
Now the rest you start going on how we can have nice roots (which btw we still need to be in range to use), Cloak in Powers, and what I can only assume are Debuffs. Let me assure you if a Jedi has all these skills that you are complaining about he is exploiting. There is no way a Jedi can be Master Lightsaber / Master Defender / Enhancer 4xxx / Healer 4x4x / Powers x4xx. If it was I'd be the first to say we need to go back to the skill loss/saber tef days lol.
Key is all Jedi have to choose skills but you can't have them all just like a non-Jedi can not have all the skills. Now I know the argument is going to be "well Jedi can just dabble and get all the good stuff they want". Ok lets say this happens:
LS x4x4 / Master Defender / 4xxx Enhancer / Healer 4xxx / Powers x4xx - This template covers a lot of what you said but I can definetly say they will NEVER kill you if you have Doc 4xxx or CM 4xxx. They can not do enough damage to you without MLS. Not only that their Accuracy is horrible so with your +250 defense at Master BH you'll see this Jedi miss you very often.
MLS / 4xx4 Enhancer / Defender xx4x / Healer 4xxx / Powers x4xx - Now all this did was exchange their defenses so they can be a damage dealer (assuming they have good pearls/crystals). You can actually kill this guy compared to the template metioned above since all they have is Aura, I can tell you that is not enough with a good weapon. Only thing is they will definetly kill you if they get into range with a K/D (assuming they have a good saber)
I can go on and on with various templates but are you seeing a recuring theme here. Inorder to get a lot you have to give up something. I admit making MBH will really lmit the templates but come on, you still get first strike and from what I just discussed above where is the balance to that (of course I do admit those with Cloak could balance that). I'm not totally discounting that there is issues with making people master BH to hunt Jedi but I will say that there is not really any issues about balancing Jedi.
Ankhesanamun wrote:
Every Paddy mission I took last night was on Kashyyyk with the exception of one that was in Space. I have a feeling that after this Publish, the odds of finding a Paddy on huntable planets will be almost nil.
I disagree with ya on this one Tanks. Why do paddies go to Kashyyyk to grind? Couple of reasons, people dont want to go through the hassle of going all the way down on the Ryatt Trails to kill them and if their going to get visibility in a group anyways, why not go down there to kill wookies? In a regular group hunting on Dantooine, you can exp 100x faster than down there. I'm sure that once alot of Jedi realize they're not going to get penalized by grinding and having fun with their friends, they'll stop going down there exclusively to grind. I'm sure alot of people still will, but I'm sure alot of people wont. It will all even out in the end, maybe not immediatly but over time.
The jedi that AFK grind on the trails will probably still do so, it will be even less risky after Pub 20, so why stop a neverending XP grind virtually risk free. I agree with you that a lot of ATK jedi will grind on other planets in groups and take the same risk they took in the old days when they grinded solo. I actually welcome the no vis from groups addition as I think it is healthier for the game if a player, regardless of profession can hunt with their guild or friends. And of course why would friends rat you out anyway. Basically, I think the whole Kashyyyk problem is a huge problem and should be addressed, since the only way you could possibly hunt on Kashyyyk after publish 20 would be eternal patience or extreme luck. Most of this patch seems like a temp fix for dev job security.
WookieOgre wrote:
too long to quote
Very mature dude, you make some valid points but I think the BHs do too. This isn't entirely directed at you, just more points.
Kiting really isnt that huge of a problem for Jedi, I agree that its the worst situation a Jedi can be in (besides AFK grinding
) but its not instant death, lag and force run or cloak. The first strike thing doesnt come into affect in SF pvp and when the master defenders macro their buffs it really doesnt matter when we hit them, its like smacking a body builder with a wet noodle.I also feel bad for the reg melee guys, but I dont melee so I dont feel I need to stand up for them.
As much as people want to justify the balance between Jedi, BHs and other combat templates I feel we should use facts. When I see any reg profession fighting a Jedi I almost always see the Jedi win, unless its a known great PVPer VS some newb or decent Jedi. I swear I've never seen a great PVPing Jedi lose to a reg profession 1 on 1 when they had equal buffs etc, not saying it doesnt happen but its rare when it does. Jedi feel they should be 1.5 better than anyone else, some think they should be even stronger, because they had XP loss as a padawan and it took them a longer time to achieve max temp. However, MBH used to be the longest grind and is probably the 2nd longest today, should we be 1.25? I dont think so. In the end, all combat professions should be equal in one way or another, if not you get what we have today, an influx of Jedi.
CovenMaximus wrote:
There should not be a balance. A full template jedi should win everytime... but that being said, it's all about how the player plays his character and takes adavantage of what he has. Add skill loss to bh and then you can ask for balance, till then shut the hell up.
Add skill loss to Jedi and then we can talk about 1.5 being fair, til then sthu