Bounty Hunter Archive

Thread: Dev Comments at FanFest Regarding BH/Jedi Missions My Response

Caelrie
Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:46 pm
#14

I think that with a +50% dmg modifier, a MBH/MR would be able to oneshot any nonDefender Jedi.


Prolly not a good idea.
AcimEriga
Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:50 pm
#15

And as for soloing a knight, possible yes, but then, I know from experience that an AFK mdef/4xxx healer with a macro is unkillable1 on 1. Tried it, and I am neither incompetent, nor the only one this has happened to. Another BH posted how he was running Kash looking for a mark when he paused and watched another BH with pistols laying into a knight for over 10 minutes without getting him incapped. The jedi was AFK then, too. The simple fact is, there ARE unkillable jedi, no matter how good you and your gear are, providing only that the player doesnt forget to hit the heal button every 30 seconds or so. Sure, he cant kill you as long as your stims hold out, but then, not dying isnt what gets us paid.
It is simply foolhardy in the extreme to demand that a patently inferior class attack a superior class 1 on 1, given that there are so very many ways to negate the surprise attack ability, as well as no counter to things like unlimited force run (and dont say it is limited by the force pool. That simply has no practical effect on it), and running into mobile homes, and heals that outrun our damage, and damage that outruns our heals.


And before anyone says it, just try running a jedi out of force who is using a pike or rifle, and only healing with force. I fought over 20 minutes with one, and he reported not even being below half force yet.

Message Edited by AcimEriga on 06-15-2005 07:54 PM

Octavean
Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:52 pm
#16






dierwek wrote:


Solution: If you want this to happen I suggest a BH special damage modifier that increases damage vs a Jedi. 10% at investigation 3, 10% at Investigation 4 and 30% at Master BH. This would mean a 50% increase overall in damage output (Jedi = 1.5X full template) against Jedi ONLY.






I do know solo Bounty Hunters that have taken a full templated Jedi. Fight might have lasted 15-20 min, but with the right kiteing, and tactics (EX. waiting for them to engage in combat) should be easily done. Knights arent something you just rush into.






whn you make that argument it only recieves this rebuttle jedi are not supposed to be in this time frame..... this is a starwars esc game not star wars m8



Oh you better watch out, you better not cry, you better not grind, I'm telling you why. Swift, brutal death is coming, to town... I see you when your moving, i know when you are housed, I know if youve been A F K so dont grind for xp sakes. Oh you better watch out, you better not cry, you better not grind, I'm telling you why. Swift, brutal death is coming, to town...
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Banzai51
Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:56 pm
#17

Thank you Tanks for choosing to fight these game breaking (for BH) ideas.

Full template or near full template jedi should require a few BH to take them down. So this 1 on 1 notion and the remove names ideas would absolutely be unacceptable.



======================
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topfuel
Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:11 pm
#18


My input is that these are far from the most important issues in the BH/Jedi system. The biggest issues are the exploits that have apparently been used on both sides throughout the game.


I only know the BH side of the exploits and I don't cheat, so I don't even know what exploits work for a BH and don't even care to know them. I would rather be stomped into noobitude a gazillion times than cheat once. You win is meaningless using exploits.


I have been exploited by probably almost half the jedi I have hunted, I've reported it, no one does anything about it. The exploiters and their guildies just sit and laugh like retarded chimps with gamesharks, because there is no accountability for it and they know it. They won't get banned, they won't even get a warning because the team seems so busy making cosmetic tweaks instead of fixing the oldest of bugs.


Case in point: The BH TEF system. When is this going to be fixed, already? I want answers to that question. Before you start messing with the terms (which at least work) why not fix one of the things that helps to keep the jedi numbers in check and slow their progress. I promise that if you fix the TEF the rate of growth with drop significantly and it seems like this is something that the DEVs want also.


Then there is the Ryatt Trails...I've watched the jedi that were 30k 2 weeks ago and now they are full temp paddywhackers because of Kash and the Trails especially. There are a few BH that have the time and resources to overcome some of this, but others of us have jobs and outside lives and don't want to spend hours a day on a bugged planet that lags to the point where PVP is impractical at best and bordering on impossible.


Feign Death: WTH?!?!?!? How is THIS not fixed for BH? Are we really supposed to be that mindless that we would fall for these Fred Sanfordesque shenanigans? I had Jonaton from HAUNT pull this one on me in a SP and then his guildies show up challenging me to duels as I wait for him to get up and then POOF! Somehow even though we had fought back and forth for like 10 min, he vanished and he was in his little hometown next I could track him. So thats a FD + TEF exploit...These guys mustbe running exploit macros now haha!The worst thing here was that he was giving a great fight and it was very even until he decided that cheating was more fun. His buddies just laughed. I did too, because this guy is apparently a worse jedi than I am a BH and if you believe the guys in COREB that's pretty bad lol. Never fear though, within another week he will be full templated and he will have no more risk in his profession...game over. Whoopie....


/duel: I havent had this one in a bit, I think the warmup cooldowns actually did help something. Then of course it just helped the jedi by giving them 3 rounds to win/escape. I'm already shooting him with a gun...why do I need a deathblow? Does he need to be EXTRA-dead? With the DB I agree with the cooldown but not the warmup. How long does it take to squeeze a trigger once you are in range?



I know all this has been talked about before ad-nauseum (I've read it), but apparently someone needs to convey to the DEVS what our priorities are and those are not adding new gadgets and doodads that are inevitably broken on launch and require another 2x XP to make up for it (which just increases the already ridiculous population already).


I don't blame the Jedi for levelling as fast as they can...why not? I don't blame everyone and their grandmother for getting glowy...Why not, when its that easy? I realized I was halfway there and hadn't even tried for it so i went ahead and sealed the deal and I see more people at the Village than I see in CNET most nights rofl. Like I said though, who can blame them? Why not make your toon more powerful if you can?


I think that alot of people feel the same as I do when I say: Fix the exploits and bugs first, then start adding the radical gadgets or totally changing our professions. None of these "updates" will have any impact on the broken (and integral) BH TEF system. Funny how it always TEFs me though.




TOLMOCK BALOPY IS WATCHING.

Me = Sodapop
Tanks
Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:15 pm
#19






Bastilaa wrote:


As it is a BH can hit a Non Defender Jedi for over 1000 Damage per shot add in 50% more and you have a 2 shot kill giving the Jedi no chance to react.


Most Jedi are running Infusion macros. Also, a non-defender Jedi will most likely have 4xxx heals at 1500 a pop. The only way it would be a 2 shot kill is if the Jedi does nothing. If that is the case, you don't need the extra damage anyway .


People seem to forget a BH has the option when to attack and having first strike and your choice of when to attack. I had a lot more respect for you Tanks than asking for an I win button


If Jedi vs BH is going to be 1 vs 1, one of two things will have to happen. Either Jedi overall effectiveness will have to get reduced or BH effectiveness will have to increase. I prefer not to reduce Jedi effectiveness as it has negative PvE and PvP implications for the Jedi. As far as how much BH effectiveness increase is balanced? Well, that is what discussions and negotiations with the devs is all about. I am not going to negotiate against myself in the public forums though.











Bounty Hunter Correspondant 2003 - 2005
Master Bounty Hunter
Dark Jedi (Pre-Pub 9)
BDragon
Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:21 pm
#20


Tanks wrote:If you want this to happen I suggest a BH special damage modifier that increases damage vs a Jedi. 10% at investigation 3, 10% at Investigation 4 and 30% at Master BH. This would mean a 50% increase overall in damage output (Jedi = 1.5X full template) against Jedi ONLY.




Wow! no way. That would be gamebreaking. If that were to ever come in my pistoleer/BH would be able to kill any non-defender Jedi under 1 minute and would hit master defenders for 1k+ damage per shot, im sorry but that is completely insane when you consider that BH is no longer profession that requires most of your skill points.

Under this current system, any template can quite easily be MBH and any ranged template that expects to PvP well will have BH in there, BH is now the most abused profession in the game. To give BH a damage multipiers Vs Jedi is essentially to give the entire game a multipier Vs Jedi and in effect Jedi becomes no better than any other profession.

I understand you are attempting to protect your content Tanks, your posts on the Jedi forums show this. The damage multipier however will create the kind of imbalance that the CU was meant to end. It would be on par with ADKd PSGs and melee toughness, i am frankly shocked that you could not see this.

Edit: Have you also considered the negative impact this will have on Jedi diversity (not that many BH care). If Jedi know all BH gain a damage multipier when fighting them it will push more and more Jedi towards master defender and once and for all end what little chance for diverse Jedi there ever was. Please Tanks, reconsider this crazy idea

Message Edited by BDragon on 06-15-2005 08:28 PM



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GrandMoffMoosemillion
Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:21 pm
#21

Please read this thread for some ideas and arguments Tanks. I don't want to cut and paste several pages of posts.


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bounty_hunter&message.id=437442






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Tanks
Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:22 pm
#22






topfuel wrote:


My input is that these are far from the most important issues in the BH/Jedi system. The biggest issues are the exploits that have apparently been used on both sides throughout the game.





You are missing the point. First, look at our Top issues, some exploits are listed there for the fix. Next, and most important is that the devs have indicated a direction that they'd like to go in regards to BH bounties. So, I have to respond to it, otherwise we will see an implementation on patch notes one of these days, and we would have had no input into the process.


Now, they know our view in regards to this.





Bounty Hunter Correspondant 2003 - 2005
Master Bounty Hunter
Dark Jedi (Pre-Pub 9)
EldosAirheart
Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:42 pm
#23

Good job Tanks. I like your ideas.



---
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Caelrie
Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:43 pm
#24






Tanks wrote:



If Jedi vs BH is going to be 1 vs 1, one of two things will have to happen. Either Jedi overall effectiveness will have to get reduced or BH effectiveness will have to increase. I prefer not to reduce Jedi effectiveness as it has negative PvE and PvP implications for the Jedi. As far as how much BH effectiveness increase is balanced? Well, that is what discussions and negotiations with the devs is all about. I am not going to negotiate against myself in the public forums though.





I disagree. The dev stated that your side of the advantage is your first strike ability. I agree with him. I don't think there's any way at all the devs will make you equal in power to a Jedi while you have no penalties, a short grind, no unlocking process AND your first strike ability.
EldosAirheart
Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:48 pm
#25






Caelrie wrote:






Tanks wrote:



If Jedi vs BH is going to be 1 vs 1, one of two things will have to happen. Either Jedi overall effectiveness will have to get reduced or BH effectiveness will have to increase. I prefer not to reduce Jedi effectiveness as it has negative PvE and PvP implications for the Jedi. As far as how much BH effectiveness increase is balanced? Well, that is what discussions and negotiations with the devs is all about. I am not going to negotiate against myself in the public forums though.





I disagree. The dev stated that your side of the advantage is your first strike ability. I agree with him. I don't think there's any way at all the devs will make you equal in power to a Jedi while you have no penalties, a short grind, no unlocking process AND your first strike ability.




I see where your coming from, less work = less power, but... If we are going to have to go 1v1 on Jedi, I believe we should get some kind of increase in power. How about giving us a X percent bonus to our damage on our first strike?



---
THE NHL IS BACK! GO DETROIT!

Those damn penguins got Crosby...
Caelrie
Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:49 pm
#26






EldosAirheart wrote:






Caelrie wrote:






Tanks wrote:



If Jedi vs BH is going to be 1 vs 1, one of two things will have to happen. Either Jedi overall effectiveness will have to get reduced or BH effectiveness will have to increase. I prefer not to reduce Jedi effectiveness as it has negative PvE and PvP implications for the Jedi. As far as how much BH effectiveness increase is balanced? Well, that is what discussions and negotiations with the devs is all about. I am not going to negotiate against myself in the public forums though.





I disagree. The dev stated that your side of the advantage is your first strike ability. I agree with him. I don't think there's any way at all the devs will make you equal in power to a Jedi while you have no penalties, a short grind, no unlocking process AND your first strike ability.




I see where your coming from, less work = less power, but... If we are going to have to go 1v1 on Jedi, I believe we should get some kind of increase in power. How about giving us a X percent bonus to our damage on our first strike?





What penalty are you willing to take for this power? I don't think you should get it for free. I pay dearly for MY power.
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