Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Jedi just come down to their saber damage.
also, keep in mind a few things about that rifle in the pic... once mod speed gets below 1.0, stats can be decieving. because of combat speed and cooldown timers you still can only attack about once very second at the most. the most important thing is the min/max damage. if you look at that, then even my pistol w/ a dmg pup compares to that rifle. DPS means nothing, its the min/max damage. jedi sabers min/max damage are so close they can consitantly hit for more damage than a rifle/pistol/carbine/etc... i have fought plenty of post-CU jedi w/ post-CU sabers who consitantly hit me for 600-700 dmg (i have 7000+ energy RIS w/ AB slice).
also, to the owner of that rifle... dont you run out of action fast? i would recommend putting a SAC pup on it. even better might be a dmg pup to up that min damage. i bet you would find yourself consitantlyhitting for more dmg vs jedi. 1.4 base speed is pretty darn good for a rifle... just a thought.
If a jedi is MLS isn'tthe 35 m or so with saber toss + knockdown?
If a jedi isMDEF you block over 50% of the incomming shots.
So they have a range of 35 m and divide the piddly 250 - 300 damage you do to them by 50% as sometimes by the next time I hit them they have already healed themselves without using any force.
If the sabers were more powerful we would all be in trouble vs certain templates.
Nullified wrote:
---
why do jedi seem to be to most clueless players every single time?
---
Because most of them plainly are.
Sabers are far too powerful compared to regular weapons, even post-cu sabers are. The high, HIGH elemental damage combined with the high minimum damage is far more important than the maximum damage. Who cares if my weapon hits for 1300 max and has 1200 dps if, against a full fledged mdef/mls it's cut down to meager 300-400 most of the time and against high level mobs (Clvl +10), I do 50%-60% damage, at best. In contrast to that, sabers will do higher damage to high level mobs and, since elemental damage is not .7'd during PvP, will also _always_ have an edge in PvP.
First off Jedi is one of the professions where people really tinker alot and don't end up FOTM. I'm not a MDef, not even close. So when I get hit by some kid's nice little rifle with pretty elemental damge, I get hammered hard. Heck if I get hit by a nice carbine or pistol, I can get hammered hard. If I wanted to grind FOTM you might not have the edge in PvP, although I'd have to try it to be sure, but if I'm not FOTM then your argument that sabers are overpowered is moot. The instant I'm not FOTM your heals, even as a dabbler healer, are as powerfulor more powerful thanmine. Your weapon will do more damage to me because I don't have the "defenses" to block it, and mine will do less to you because you'll have an AB slice on the armor.
Simple truth: If a full template jedi loses to you, he does not know his template well enough /for PvP, that is) _or_ has a build which is not PvP oriented at all _or_ has a saber with stats so bad that I have never seen one..
Or s/he just doesn't want to be FOTM. One of my friends, heaven pity him, is MH/ME. His only advantage? He can outheal just about any damage, and he can stasis and run. It's his laughs jedi I guess.
I have a simple way for all of this to be fixed lickety split. Remove all defenses, armor certifications, and such from the current skill trees. Createa new one, standard skill tree cost and structure, Recon, Battle, Assault, PSG (TK's have to start wearing armor again, sorry).Now you can dabble, only take the armor type you want, but you're overall defenses will be less. Now don't start crying about how it's unfair, Jedi make this decision everyday, and maybe you'll see why many Jedi aren't FOTM this way.
Message Edited by Nullified on 09-14-200501:56 PM
A MLS/MD will hardly ever miss!...Where a MBH/MR will miss close to 50% of his shots reguardless of food and tapes! Its all over the riflemans board already. So how can you even compare a rifles damage to a saber?!?!?! Even as a Pistoleer I missed alot.
So please, why bother trying to figure out what weapon is better if your not gonna take into account the amount of times the weapon actually hits?
dalessit wrote:
If a jedi is MLS isn'tthe 35 m or so with saber toss + knockdown?
32m
If a jedi isMDEF you block over 50% of the incomming shots.
Um... No. Valor adds 25 to block. So each shot has a 25% chance of being blocked. This doesn't take into account the block mod of LS but you didn't mention LS at this part.
So they have a range of 35 m and divide the piddly 250 - 300 damage you do to them by 50% as sometimes by the next time I hit them they have already healed themselves without using any force.
If the sabers were more powerful we would all be in trouble vs certain templates.
I believe all anyone is asking for is that they drop, not that they drop off of chubas. I would like to see level 300 Krayts that have a chance to drop a nice pearl, just a chance.
ShaikeRamjet wrote:
Nastypope wrote:
Hey since you guys say it maybe they will let us loot what we need make good sabers again.
Oh my god looked at the Dmg on that rifle and people have the nerve to say saber are not underpowered!
Message Edited by Nastypope on 09-14-200512:13 AM
The problem here though is if they reinstate the premium pearls like they were pre-cu, the sabers will be over-powered. They need to give you guys the pearls again... but they need to adjust the damage of the pre-cu sabers and the damage of the new pearls to align them with post-cu weapons.
I can see Jedi hitting for 600-700 a hit in PvP... not 1k a hit unless it is their power attack.
Message Edited by ShaikeRamjet on 09-14-2005 03:24 AM
Diana-Bol wrote:
Everyone here is trying to compare sabers to rifles...I dont see how you can even do it?
A MLS/MD will hardly ever miss!...Where a MBH/MR will miss close to 50% of his shots reguardless of food and tapes! Its all over the riflemans board already. So how can you even compare a rifles damage to a saber?!?!?! Even as a Pistoleer I missed alot.
So please, why bother trying to figure out what weapon is better if your not gonna take into account the amount of times the weapon actually hits?
You are making some big generalizations most MLS/Mdef can't even get in range of a BH/CM/Rifles due to root/kd/snare. These are aprox due to the fact i'm at work and not able to check my characters stats. My Jedi has about 230 accuracy (+73acc with crispic) and if I was a Mdef I would have about 230 defense (Aura +500def, plus another +100 for the defense food/drink). So about 300 accuracy at best and 830 defense. Now my Rifleman/BH/CM has about the exact same base stats 230 acc (crispic +40ish and deut petrum +220) 230 defense (two foods +100 duelist stance, yes you should use it btw +250). So Rifleman +490 accuracy 580 defense.
Jedi (best case) Rifleman/BH/CM (nearly any template)
303 accuracy 490 accuracy
830 defense 580 defense
So Jedi hitting Rifleman = Rifleman has 91% more defense then the Jedi does accuracy.
So Rifleman hitting Jedi = Jedi has 69% more defense then rifleman has accuracy.
So in conclusion I don't see how your argument has any point. In fact it skews it more towards the BH. Also anyone can get the Quest Trando Rifle 8% damage slice and with a pup its min damage is 700+ so more then the max damage of most sabers from 65 meters.
Message Edited by ksiazek7 on 09-14-2005 09:23 AM
Diana-Bol wrote:
Everyone here is trying to compare sabers to rifles...I dont see how you can even do it?
A MLS/MD will hardly ever miss!...Where a MBH/MR will miss close to 50% of his shots reguardless of food and tapes! Its all over the riflemans board already. So how can you even compare a rifles damage to a saber?!?!?! Even as a Pistoleer I missed alot.
So please, why bother trying to figure out what weapon is better if your not gonna take into account the amount of times the weapon actually hits?
Even as MLS the chances of misses are ridiculously high, I hate it when I get 3 misses in a row when the target is KD'd causing me to lose oppourtunity to finish him off. A common MLS' accuracy is 227 (+12 FS acc) and a common MBH/MR acc is 250-300, you'll shred a non Defender with that and Defenders are supposed to make your day tough with their kinds of defenses against a ranged weapon. Accuracy still isn't as bad as master powers used to be before the CU, 1 of every 6 hits actually landed back then, but now the chances of misses as a master profession (I have 325 pike or 350 fencer accuracy in my melee temp and still freakin miss alot).
Diana-Bol wrote:
Everyone here is trying to compare sabers to rifles...I dont see how you can even do it?
A MLS/MD will hardly ever miss!...Where a MBH/MR will miss close to 50% of his shots reguardless of food and tapes! Its all over the riflemans board already. So how can you even compare a rifles damage to a saber?!?!?! Even as a Pistoleer I missed alot.
So please, why bother trying to figure out what weapon is better if your not gonna take into account the amount of times the weapon actually hits?
lol, who said Jedi hardly ever miss? Oh that's right, the noobs who say using Duelist stance is a waist of time rofl.
As a BH, my alpha stike goes like this:
1) using my 309 base Accuracy, I take pyro (220 accuracy), use aim (240 accuracy).
2) Irarely miss (blocked maybe but notmiss)for the first 15 seconds of my attack.
If I don't incap and d/b the Jedi within the first min or two of action I just give up, it's really not worth it as I'm just waiting time, food, and equipment on a fight that I might/mightnot win. Blame that on the devs for making this healwars game.
What I find funny is the max I could possibly get for my base accuracy in MLS is around 220. You're telling me Jedi hit more often with less accuracy lol? From my observation that is not true.
Oh my god looked at the Dmg on that rifle and people have the nerve to say saber are not underpowered!
cant compare rifles and sabers without factoring in every other skills.
Jedi (best case) Rifleman/BH/CM (nearly any template)
303 accuracy 490 accuracy
830 defense 580 defense
i think you missed the point here
more def than accy means you hit for less than your average damage (before multiplyers and armour) more acc (+750 infact) means you hit for closer to your max -less acc than defence (-750 is the cap again) you hit towards the min of your weapon
stacking defence mods vs a saber headly does anything - damage range on a saber is 100 - so diff between level acc and def stats and 750 defence over the jedi's acc mean you save yourself a whole 50 damage.
on a rifle the min max range can be 600+ this means that in this situation 830 def 490 ACC (not sure this number is a fair test since duterium is a 60 sec buff) def is 340 over acc so rifle will hit at 1.2 way between its MIN and its average (eg 1200-600 rifle would hit for 750 preattack modifiersand armour)
simply taking % doesnt mean anything as it depends on what is hitting you
i am the owner of that rifle.
and its true that even though the mod dps is stupidly high, dps with no action is 0.
ive dont an extreme amount of tests with diffrent pups in actual fights and against my alt
and although with speed pup i go through a full sac bar (no buffs) in 13 seconds (compared to 28 secs with sac pup) the actual dps through that action bar is nearly 30% higher with speed pup. and in that 13 secs i can do a lot of damage and they cant heal that much onin 28 secs sure ill do loads more damge but they hcan heal through it