Bounty Hunter Archive

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alephen wrote:

over 500 in minimum damage is EASY to get using the BH weapon components. compare that to a post CU saber that has action and force costs. and the HLR is not even slice, nor pupped likely. with adamages slice the HLR is about 635 min.

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Maybe I should edit my other post to make an addendum ... in addition to minimum damage, damage range is also what determines a good weapon. So what if the minimum on the best of the best HLR is 500, the damage range will be too wide. The thing that makes sabers special is that they have very high minimum damage and a very low damage range -- most importantly, their 125+ elemental damage. Also, why are you comparing the best of the best rifles to mediocre sabers? The best post-CU saber with the best post-CU pearls/crystals is still better than the best post-CU rifle. If you're going to compare rifles to mediocre sabers, then you need to use mediocre rifles for comparison.

Also, yes, I've slain over 300 Jedi. But not because their templates and sabers were weak ... it's because THEY were weak in the area of skill. The ease at which one can become Jedi is the main culprit for this. Just about anyone can become Jedi without any PvP skill at all. Most of these people are Rryatt Trail Jedi who never even set foot in the PvP arena, thus they lack the skill and knowledge to fend off bounty hunters -- most of whom are experienced PvP'ers.

All the full templates I've slain have had the tools to defeat me, they just lack the knowledge and skill to do so.

Message Edited by OhBuggah on 09-03-2005 08:30 PM

Message Edited by OhBuggah on 09-03-2005 08:37 PM

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OhBuggah wrote:

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alephen wrote:

over 500 in minimum damage is EASY to get using the BH weapon components. compare that to a post CU saber that has action and force costs. and the HLR is not even slice, nor pupped likely. with adamages slice the HLR is about 635 min.

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Maybe I should edit my other post to make an addendum ... in addition to minimum damage, damage range is also what determines a good weapon. So what if the minimum on the best of the best HLR is 500, the damage range will be too wide. The thing that makes sabers special is that they have very high minimum damage and a very low damage range. Also, why are you comparing the best of the best rifles to mediocre sabers? The best post-CU saber with the best post-CU pearls/crystals is still better than the best post-CU crystal. If you're going to compare rifles to mediocre sabers, then you need to use mediocre rifles for comparison.

Also, yes, I've slain over 300 Jedi. But not because their templates and sabers were weak ... it's because THEY were weak in the area of skill. The ease at which one can become Jedi is the main culprit for this. Just about anyone can become Jedi without any PvP skill at all. Most of these people are Rryatt Trail Jedi who never even set foot in the PvP arena, thus they lack the skill and knowledge to fend off bounty hunters -- most of whom are experienced PvP'ers.

All the full templates I've slain have had the tools to defeat me, they just lack the knowledge and skill to do so.

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so you are saying a 600-800 damage saber is better then a 600-1000 HLR. that i have to hear reasoned. and i am comparing an HLR that cost 3m credits to a saber that would cost in the neighborhood of 15-25m credits so i think that is fair. (i have alsonoted my saber for comparison of a pre-cu saber. however if i could untune all of the crystals/pearls i have used in making it would sell for over 350m - 8 flawless and about15 premiumpearls uncounteable other crystals.) i specifically left out pre cu 4th gen sabers because they no longer can be made. this is like comparing a prenerf republic blaster to a scout blaster and proclaiming, ' uncerted pistols are better then certed pistols.'

Message Edited by alephen on 09-03-2005 09:43 PM

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Sundal wrote:

It's not you verus other people. You could do master marksmen and still beat half of the people. Why? Because you will run into a lot of retards. Which is why BHs beat a lot of Jedi's. Half of them dont know what they are doing, it has little to do with their template.

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QFE.

I also agree that a MR/MCM will beat a MBH/MCM. MBH/MCM is only good for widdling down a Defender Jedi through attrition. That is why MBH/MCM's take 30-45 minutes to kill one. The weakness of the MCM template is that it lacks speed, and it lacks accuracy. An MR/MCM/BH0400 template has high accuracy and can apply the exact same debuffs to an opponent -- basically neutralizinghis opponent's strength by equalizing the playing field.

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alephen wrote:

so you are saying a 600-800 damage saber is better then a 600-1000 HLR. that i have to hear reasoned. and i am comparing an HLR that cost 3m credits to a saber that would cost in the neighborhood of 15-25m credits so i think that is fair. (i have alsonoted my saber for comparison of a pre-cu saber. however if i could untune all of the crystals/pearls i have used in making it would sell for over 350m - 8 flawless and about15 premiumpearls uncounteable other crystals.) i specifically left out pre cu 4th gen sabers because they no longer can be made. this is like comparing a prenerf republic blaster to a scout blaster and proclaiming, ' uncerted pistols are better then certed pistols.'

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Damage capped HLR is 500-1150. It cannot get better than that. So, yes, a 600-800 damage saber IS a better weapon than the the 500-1150 HLR. Not even to mention that Jedi weapon specials have high damage multipliers. A damage capped HLR will hit a M.Defender for 200-300 each time after mitigation. A Jedi with post-CU equipment can hit the same BH for 400-600 each time after mitigation.

Also, the strength of Jedi is not that it has powerful weapons and weapons specials. The strength of Jedi is that it is awell-rounded profession that is strong in all areas of combat: Offense, Defense, and Healing. Whereas any MBH template can only excel in one area, be medicore in another, and be weak in the third. To measure the strength of a player character based solely on weapon strength is a totally myopic way to do it.

I don't think BH is an alpha class, but there's clearly better chances for good loot on BH marks than killing 50 regular level 82 NPC's. Not to mention it's one of the few classes that actualy work...

I'm betting that if SOE would fix the loot tables and actually put in smuggler missions (OMG CONTENT FOR SOMEBODY OTHER THAN BH OR JEDI?!?!?!?!) probably 30-50% of the current BH players would respec. You'd probably be left the the guys that really enjoy hunting marks, and nothing else. Which is what it should be, in my opinion.

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OhBuggah wrote:

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alephen wrote:

so you are saying a 600-800 damage saber is better then a 600-1000 HLR. that i have to hear reasoned. and i am comparing an HLR that cost 3m credits to a saber that would cost in the neighborhood of 15-25m credits so i think that is fair. (i have alsonoted my saber for comparison of a pre-cu saber. however if i could untune all of the crystals/pearls i have used in making it would sell for over 350m - 8 flawless and about15 premiumpearls uncounteable other crystals.) i specifically left out pre cu 4th gen sabers because they no longer can be made. this is like comparing a prenerf republic blaster to a scout blaster and proclaiming, ' uncerted pistols are better then certed pistols.'

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Damage capped HLR is 500-1150. It cannot get better than that. So, yes, a 600-800 damage saber IS a better weapon than the the 500-1150 HLR. Not even to mention that Jedi weapon specials have high damage multipliers. A damage capped HLR will hit a M.Defender for 200-300 each time after mitigation. A Jedi with post-CU equipment can hit the same BH for 400-600 each time after mitigation.

Also, the strength of Jedi is not that it has powerful weapons and weapons specials. The strength of Jedi is that it is awell-rounded profession that is strong in all areas of combat: Offense, Defense, and Healing. Whereas any MBH template can only excel in one area, be medicore in another, and be weak in the third. To measure the strength of a player character based solely on weapon strength is a totally myopic way to do it.

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then your arguement is with the guy here:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bounty_hunter&message.id=524627

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alephen wrote:

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OhBuggah wrote:

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alephen wrote:

so you are saying a 600-800 damage saber is better then a 600-1000 HLR. that i have to hear reasoned. and i am comparing an HLR that cost 3m credits to a saber that would cost in the neighborhood of 15-25m credits so i think that is fair. (i have alsonoted my saber for comparison of a pre-cu saber. however if i could untune all of the crystals/pearls i have used in making it would sell for over 350m - 8 flawless and about15 premiumpearls uncounteable other crystals.) i specifically left out pre cu 4th gen sabers because they no longer can be made. this is like comparing a prenerf republic blaster to a scout blaster and proclaiming, ' uncerted pistols are better then certed pistols.'

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Damage capped HLR is 500-1150. It cannot get better than that. So, yes, a 600-800 damage saber IS a better weapon than the the 500-1150 HLR. Not even to mention that Jedi weapon specials have high damage multipliers. A damage capped HLR will hit a M.Defender for 200-300 each time after mitigation. A Jedi with post-CU equipment can hit the same BH for 400-600 each time after mitigation.

Also, the strength of Jedi is not that it has powerful weapons and weapons specials. The strength of Jedi is that it is awell-rounded profession that is strong in all areas of combat: Offense, Defense, and Healing. Whereas any MBH template can only excel in one area, be medicore in another, and be weak in the third. To measure the strength of a player character based solely on weapon strength is a totally myopic way to do it.

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then your arguement is with the guy here:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bounty_hunter&message.id=524627

he posted a 590 min unsliced HLR, call him a liar.

also that HLR that YOU mentioned 500-1150 goes to 650-1495 with damage pup is that worse thenmy 600-800 damage saber? or is that unfair since a pup costs about a credit per attack. and again, it is almost impossible for a post cu jedi to get a 600-800 saber,a goodsaber for a new jedi is around 500-700, while it is easy for a BH to get ahold of adamage/SAC capped plus low speed weapon.

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The guy who posted that link is a liar. He is including the elemental damage on it. It is misleading because even a 40 point boost to max damage with multipliers is a lot of damage. Hard cap on HLR's is 1150. Nothing more. Nothing less.

With damage PUP, damage range is around 600-1300. However this slows the weapon down significantly. No serious bounty hunter uses damage PUPs on their rifles. So, yes, a 600-800 damage saber is still better than that HLR. This is a circular argument because it seems you keep going back to the 800 max damage on the saber and comparing it to the 1150 max damage on the rifle as a basis for saying that the rifle is better. The damage range between a saber is around 200. The damage range between a rifle is around 650. This is the reason why sabers are better than rifles. You cannot seem to grasp this concept.

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alephen wrote:

anyway i am done here. all i know is that i have fought6 post cu jedi finished and very nearly finished templates and beat them all in duels -no suprise, no starting at 65m and i didnt use dots incase a BH came. i am not a very good PvPer, although i dont suck too much. most were fairly quick too, like 5ish minutes. now maybe it was because none of them were master defender, but they couldnt outdamage my heals, so MD would have just taken longer.

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Any Jedi who doesn't have MD is gimping himself in PvP. There is no reason not to be MD if you are playing a PvP-only class like Jedi. Also you wouldn't be able to kill an MD without DoTs.

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OhBuggah wrote:

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alephen wrote:

anyway i am done here. all i know is that i have fought6 post cu jedi finished and very nearly finished templates and beat them all in duels -no suprise, no starting at 65m and i didnt use dots incase a BH came. i am not a very good PvPer, although i dont suck too much. most were fairly quick too, like 5ish minutes. now maybe it was because none of them were master defender, but they couldnt outdamage my heals, so MD would have just taken longer.

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Any Jedi who doesn't have MD is gimping himself in PvP. There is no reason not to be MD if you are playing a PvP-only class like Jedi. Also you wouldn't be able to kill an MD without DoTs.

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there is virtuallyno PvP for jedi right now but when a BH comes for a jedi. contrary to what your enormous ego says to you many jedi do not wake up in the morning i should log in to SWGs so i can be some BHs content. my jedi is about 95% PvE (he is MD though) although i didnt evenlog him while the loot for NBHs was so screwy. (he couldnt make 5-10m per hour)

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OhBuggah wrote:

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alephen wrote:

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OhBuggah wrote:

blah, blah blah

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then your arguement is with the guy here:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bounty_hunter&message.id=524627

he posted a 590 min unsliced HLR, call him a liar.

also that HLR that YOU mentioned 500-1150 goes to 650-1495 with damage pup is that worse thenmy 600-800 damage saber? or is that unfair since a pup costs about a credit per attack. and again, it is almost impossible for a post cu jedi to get a 600-800 saber,a goodsaber for a new jedi is around 500-700, while it is easy for a BH to get ahold of adamage/SAC capped plus low speed weapon.

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The guy who posted that link is a liar. He is including the elemental damage on it. It is misleading because even a 40 point boost to max damage with multipliers is a lot of damage. Hard cap on HLR's is 1150. Nothing more. Nothing less.

With damage PUP, damage range is around 600-1300. However this slows the weapon down significantly. No serious bounty hunter uses damage PUPs on their rifles. So, yes, a 600-800 damage saber is still better than that HLR. This is a circular argument because it seems you keep going back to the 800 max damage on the saber and comparing it to the 1150 max damage on the rifle as a basis for saying that the rifle is better. The damage range between a saber is around 200. The damage range between a rifle is around 650. This is the reason why sabers are better than rifles. You cannot seem to grasp this concept.

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no, i honestly cant grasp this, tell me how a 500-700 damage saber is better then a 550-1050 damage HLR. even tell me how the algorithms work that would make a 600-800 damage saber do more damage then a 600-1050 damage damage HLR. i know that if the defense is much higher both hit at the minimum damage, or 600 so they wouldhave equal damage with the basichit, but only a MLS has the speed to hit as often as a MBH would. (also the part highlighted in green cannot be true, since YOU said max damage is irrelevant.)

so combined with your statement below a jedi MUST be MLS/MD right? but then he only has gimped himself, for most MLS/MD jedi are 3000 heal 0002 enhance and thus cannot heal for near as much as a 4000 CM and cannot rootor force run to escape. MBH can use snares/roots/KDs, whichever he has, to kite this jedi until he runs out of force and dies so all the bonus tricks that are the special advantage of jedi are not available because he has locked up all of his SPs.

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alephen wrote:

there is virtuallyno PvP for jedi right now but when a BH comes for a jedi.

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Must be your server on my server it's virtually non stop Jedi Vs Jedi PvP.

Message Edited by Giles025 on 09-04-2005 02:32 AM

a bounty hunter is supposed to be tough and to be able to kill a jedi (for the moive quoters watch Ep II at the end, and watch Jango kill the jedi thats going for dooku, and the only reason Mace took Jango so easily it because Mace has an skill call shatterpoint, which lets him see weakness and flaws in things and no, no jedi in swg should have this as no one is on Mace's lvl) anyways joe blow the ranger/CH can't kill a jedi unless the jedi is a afk grinder or ebay jedi, no matter what your temp someone is always better, you can't win every fight. some people are better prepared or just plain better at pvp.

i'm sick of hearing jedi cry that they are gimped everytime a bh beats them, a smuggler didn't beat you a bh did, and did what he's supposed to. if you lossed to a bh then take a look at how he beat you and do some thing about it, intead of crying that jedi are gimped. i've onnly been playing since may and i'm so sick of listeing to jedi whine, i don't hate all jedi some are really cool peeps but most that i've met are babies that moan about everything and yes some bh are babies and cry to, but then again some one in every profession cries, so what do we?? get over it it's just a game, play and have fun and quit being so worried about being uber, you'll win some and you'll lose some oh well. if the xp loss bothers you that bad then why did you choose to become a jedi, you knew the risks and to not consider them or prepare yourself for them is just plain stuiped. anyways thats my rant, and i wasnt directing this post at anyone thats posted just me ranting and raveing, but flame if you want.