Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Concerning Force Cloak
It didn't say "except" in BH missions. It said "isn't specifically meant in the context of Bounty Hunters but combat in general."
It means in all forms of combat, not just BH.
Compton wrote:
So if cloak is supposed to be used as a first strike tool, then can't the devs see that it negates the advantage a BH is supposed to have? I understand that a Jedi can't attack unless hit first, but if he cloaks he can easily heal/buff/food and then attack when he's ready, allowing him the advantage of being prepared (Something they wanted BHs to have an advantage over.)
That is where the problem has been. Cureently, there is no way around this. However, just like now how a MCM/MBH is excellent against MDefs, I am seeing a MBH/MRanger being good against Powers. Cloaking is a mind trick and is effective against sentients, not machines, Rangers will have motion sensors that will break a Jedi's cloak.
TesserVin wrote:
First off, i play a Jedi and i am no longer a BH.
As many of you are aware, there are several proposed changes to Force Cloak. This will end the jedi's ability to escape from a fight as easily. Force cloak was not intended to be used for escape! I recall a quote from Helios, something like "Force cloak was intended to be an alpha strike ability." Of corse, that is not the exact quote, but close to. Now that Cloak is getting a "nerf" we (jedi and BHs) can see it being used like it was intended. There is also a snare idea being thrown around. This is where i have my problem. How can jedi organize an "alpha strike" if we are snared? Please do not put a snare on cloak, all the other changes seem acceptable.
And the only reason i post this here is because every jedi who reads this will think im a crazy mofo who needs to die because i dont mind the cloak nerf. BHs seems more supportive of positive changes to the Jedi proffesion than most jedi.
Ah dude are you kidding? The reason Jedi dont like all these nerfs is cause they are just that nerfs! That is alll that has happened to are abilities since the CU, the Devs are turning Jedi into a noivce proffesion at the rate they are going. Oh and of course BH support these changes they make Jedi easier to beat with each nerf.
Message Edited by Nastypope on 09-19-2005 06:07 PM
Now the changes to cloak seem totally legit, BUT like you said, if there's a snare involved, what good is it going to be as a first strike? Its like sayin the US can't use radar when they pumpkin bomb the middle east. I dunno... guess thats just my two cents.
acmtalk wrote:
lol, I am a BH/jedi .. BH is my alt... The only thing that will happen with this cloak nerf, is that 95% of jedi will be clones.. remember those hard to hit defenders? yeah get ready for them now... Not to say that cloak will still effective, all u go do is FR and cloak...
Exactly my poin in another post:
I understand it has to change because of the upcoming ranger revamp to get everyone in line but to say this is for "alpha strike" when it's in the Powers mastery is sooooo stupid it makes me wonder if the devs actually understand the game they created......
I am sorry but that is so retarded. First Strike? for Powers? wow....so what they do is they take away from master powers (the only defense they have ) and let the dablers that have MLS MDEF or whatever else get it for alpha strike in PvP.
Yes they had it anyway (meaning dablers) so why not put it in their boxes? Give the Master Power something more useful.
This is the exact reason this game is screwed up sometimes (I love the game and will keep playing in either case).
None of the devs seem to think out certain plans all the way through.
Master Powers is a support profession....great now they gave it an "alpha strike" ....what? What this does is it "herds" everyone to use certain templates. prepare to run itno just MLS MDEF over and over and over and over. SOE never encourages diversity.
TonieStark wrote:
acmtalk wrote:
lol, I am a BH/jedi .. BH is my alt... The only thing that will happen with this cloak nerf, is that 95% of jedi will be clones.. remember those hard to hit defenders? yeah get ready for them now... Not to say that cloak will still effective, all u go do is FR and cloak...
Master Powers is a support profession....great now they gave it an "alpha strike" ....what? What this does is it "herds" everyone to use certain templates. prepare to run itno just MLS MDEF over and over and over and over. SOE never encourages diversity.
We should not have whined about this so much. Cloak was fine. BHs shouold just have dropped and moved on. this screws all Master Power Jedi's to the fullest.
Ah well, us powers jedi have been pretty screwed anyways, another nerf won't kill us... I for one won't be switching templates.
Master powers / Master Enhancer til the end 
/salute
TesserVin wrote:
...There is also a snare idea being thrown around. This is where i have my problem. How can jedi organize an "alpha strike" if we are snared? ...
Well, how can you do an "Alpha strike" if the ranger motion detectors uncloak you? Now, there will be a counter to cloak. I can see a lot of BH + Ranger teams going after bounties. Also, read Helios' post on this matter at your own forums.
But then doesn't this take away the 1v1 fight that the devs wanted between BH and Jedi. Also, doesn't this teaming up give the tactic of "bringing a friend along to knock you out of a Jedi's stasis," some credit? If they allow you to bring a Ranger to detect the Jedi then what really is the difference?
Tanks wrote:
TesserVin wrote:
...There is also a snare idea being thrown around. This is where i have my problem. How can jedi organize an "alpha strike" if we are snared? ...
Well, how can you do an "Alpha strike" if the ranger motion detectors uncloak you? Now, there will be a counter to cloak. I can see a lot of BH + Ranger teams going after bounties. Also, read Helios' post on this matter at your own forums.
However, along with this the devs should also fix ability to attack cloaked Jedi at will, and NPCs agroing cloaked Jedi as well (which leads to abuse in GCW bases).
BelasPedek wrote:
I currently have a full template jedi w/ cloak and a full template MBH that I enjoy playing. The cloak changes don't bother me at, mainly cause I don't run from BH's when they come for me... the few that actually have. They kill me, whoop-di-doo! I kill them... Whoop-di-doo!
Now the changes to cloak seem totally legit, BUT like you said, if there's a snare involved, what good is it going to be as a first strike? Its like sayin the US can't use radar when they pumpkin bomb the middle east. I dunno... guess thats just my two cents.
How is the snare going to affect the cloak? If you are sneaking up on someone... why would you be running full blast at them?
My vision of this is as follows:
A group of Jedi use cloak and sneak behind the enemies lines. The enemy is expecting a frontal assault and have their melee special forces up front, possibly includingenemy Jedi, to tank, behind them is the ranged special forces and the combat medics and doctors. Just as the frontal assault commences the Jedi uncloak and annihilate the doctors and tie up the combat medics in battle.
Suddenly the enemy is split between two fronts and are in a state of confusion. The enemy falls this day because they weren't prepared... maybe they could have had Rangers set up motion detectors in the rear... this could have gone a different route. My vision is their will be a more tactical fight on the battle field now with the ability sneak with the chance of getting caught. It should make it a little more of achallenge than it has been, with the chance of cloak or stealth being broken.
Why must it always be a "nerf" to the Jedi? Why is it impossible for a lot of you to see this as imbalanced as it is now? Why do you pitch a fit and say that the devs don't know what they are talking about when they say that the way something they created for you isn't being used as it was intended?
There should always be the chance to lose. Being able to cloak and regen and then jump back into a fight is and has been an imbalance. The snare on the cloak makes sense in the fact that when you are trying to be sneaky, you aren't going to be running full blast, you are going to be tip-toeing. I am fairly certain that the snare is gone as soon as the cloak is broken.