Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Concerning Force Cloak
Helios_SOE wrote:
- Question: Will our counter-camo skills be able to detect Jedi and Rifleman under concealment and cloak?
- Answer: Jedi Force Cloak is a mind trick so we cannot detect that, however jedi cannot mind trick machines and therefore our motion detectors can detect them. Riflemen are not personal concealment experts so they will be open to exposure from tracking Rangers.
Currently, that is correct.
Tanks wrote:
Well, you could also be a BH/Ranger and not need a friend. Also, do not forget that the TEF does not last that long, the Ranger could do the detection at that time. All we know at this time is that motion detectors will uncloak the Jedi ( or have a chance to). We do not know how, and under what circumstances it will work.
Hmmmm so realistically I have to completely change my template.... from MBH MRM... to MBH MRanger... to have a CHANCE to break cloak?
Cloak that a jedi spent a whole 28 points to get?
Does that seem fair?
Not to me...
I just started hunting jedi and in the past 2 days have 'engaged' 4... of the four ALL OF THEM had cloak... and they ALL cloaked...
I got lucky on two and was actually about to get a shot off on them b4 they cloaked...
IMHO the 'cost' for a jedi to obtain cloak... with regards to skill points... needs to be higher or frankly any jedi would be crazy not to have it...
as it stands now... there is simply no way for a jedi that has it to lose a fight... unless they chose not to use it...
Where is the BH's 'get out of jail free' card?
Tanks wrote:
TesserVin wrote:
... There is also a snare idea being thrown around. This is where i have my problem. How can jedi organize an "alpha strike" if we are snared? ...
Well, how can you do an "Alpha strike" if the ranger motion detectors uncloak you? Now, there will be a counter to cloak. I can see a lot of BH + Ranger teams going after bounties. Also, read Helios' post on this matter at your own forums.However, along with this the devs should also fix ability to attack cloaked Jedi at will, and NPCs agroing cloaked Jedi as well (which leads to abuse in GCW bases).
there should always be a counter to every move in this game, enhancer stasis ruins AI, a ranger can ruin cloak. This will bring more diversity to the combat proff. I have reviewed the posts made on the Jedi forums.
There only thing i have a problem with is the proposed snare.
*EDIT* i agree that NPC agros need to be changed, sooner rather than later. Some people use this skill to agro everything then a man runs into the base to blow it, what if i want to see if there are any players inside the base without giving myself away? This does need a fix
Message Edited by TesserVin on 09-20-2005 05:53 AM
Ulrek_Oden wrote:
Tanks wrote:
Well, you could also be a BH/Ranger and not need a friend. Also, do not forget that the TEF does not last that long, the Ranger could do the detection at that time. All we know at this time is that motion detectors will uncloak the Jedi ( or have a chance to). We do not know how, and under what circumstances it will work.
Hmmmm so realistically I have to completely change my template.... from MBH MRM... to MBH MRanger... to have a CHANCE to break cloak?
Cloak that a jedi spent a whole 28 points to get?
Does that seem fair?
Not to me...
I just started hunting jedi and in the past 2 days have 'engaged' 4... of the four ALL OF THEM had cloak... and they ALL cloaked...
I got lucky on two and was actually about to get a shot off on them b4 they cloaked...
IMHO the 'cost' for a jedi to obtain cloak... with regards to skill points... needs to be higher or frankly any jedi would be crazy not to have it...
as it stands now... there is simply no way for a jedi that has it to lose a fight... unless they chose not to use it...
Where is the BH's 'get out of jail free' card?
28 skill points and months if grinding to get cloak. 3 days, tops, to finnish a non-jedi temp (not including investigation or some crafting)
*EDIT* I failed to see "... with regards to skill points..." my apologizes. But the time spent is still a factor. BHs shouldnt get a "get out of jail free card" because they are the hunters, not the hunted, imho. And rangers might recieve something similar to cloak, or hell, give BHs a PSG (Personal Stealthfield Generator) as DWB loot.
Message Edited by TesserVin on 09-20-2005 05:58 AM
I think nerfing the cloak this way is a bad idea. Big deal if the jedi runs, just find them again, or drop their mission. Those with cloak that I have fought usually don't run they just use it from time to time to think they are sneaking up on me...
The only thing I think should be done to it is make it a timed effect with a bit of a cooldown timer, that way it gets you out of harms way but doesn't allow you to run across the entire planet cloaked.
Don't have a jedi so not sure if this even makes sense..
What SOE should consider is the following:
- Make BH have to be part of a BH guild/ faction. Not unlike being a rebel or imp.
- BHs can then only take missions from their guild/ faction.
- There should be a time limit by which the mission must be completed.
- BH’s should get notoriety based on the number and level of their kills. As a hired assassin notoriety is something you should not want. There could also be some modifier based on the number of people that see the BH do the assassination.
- Notoriety then places a BH on a BH terminal so that a mission can be taken by a rival BH guild member. This makes sense as there would be competition among the guilds.
- BHs would loose money not XP if they are killed. This should happen weather they are after a Jedi or after a Smuggler (see below)
I would also introduce Smugglers into this equation by giving them smuggler missions to make deliveries of items.
- They would get notoriety by completing smuggling missions ala the BH.
- BHs would then be “hired” to take out smugglers by rival guild/ faction.
- You may also want to consider allowing smugglers to “know” that a BH is coming because of their underworld connections.
At least this gives some game and role play into environment not just free reign by the BHs to come and hunt Jedi and make money with no repercussions.
Tanks wrote:
Well, you could also be a BH/Ranger and not need a friend. Also, do not forget that the TEF does not last that long, the Ranger could do the detection at that time. All we know at this time is that motion detectors will uncloak the Jedi ( or have a chance to). We do not know how, and under what circumstances it will work.
Hmm... I didn'tinterpretHelios' commentsto meanthat motion detectors would break the cloak. Cloaked Jedi would set off the motion detectors, yes, and the Ranger would know *someone* was there. Where was it written it had a chance to break it? I'm not being obtuse, just curious.
Doesn't much matter to me, now that Force Cloak is being turned into nothing more than an expensive parlour trick, I have better things to spend 28 SP on.
Message Edited by UTech on 09-20-2005 06:23 AM
TesserVin wrote:
Ulrek_Oden wrote:
Tanks wrote:
Well, you could also be a BH/Ranger and not need a friend. Also, do not forget that the TEF does not last that long, the Ranger could do the detection at that time. All we know at this time is that motion detectors will uncloak the Jedi ( or have a chance to). We do not know how, and under what circumstances it will work.
Hmmmm so realistically I have to completely change my template.... from MBH MRM... to MBH MRanger... to have a CHANCE to break cloak?
Cloak that a jedi spent a whole 28 points to get?
Does that seem fair?
Not to me...
I just started hunting jedi and in the past 2 days have 'engaged' 4... of the four ALL OF THEM had cloak... and they ALL cloaked...
I got lucky on two and was actually about to get a shot off on them b4 they cloaked...
IMHO the 'cost' for a jedi to obtain cloak... with regards to skill points... needs to be higher or frankly any jedi would be crazy not to have it...
as it stands now... there is simply no way for a jedi that has it to lose a fight... unless they chose not to use it...
Where is the BH's 'get out of jail free' card?
28 skill points and months if grinding to get cloak. 3 days, tops, to finnish a non-jedi temp (not including investigation or some crafting)
*EDIT* I failed to see "... with regards to skill points..." my apologizes. But the time spent is still a factor. BHs shouldnt get a "get out of jail free card" because they are the hunters, not the hunted, imho. And rangers might recieve something similar to cloak, or hell, give BHs a PSG (Personal Stealthfield Generator) as DWB loot.Message Edited by TesserVin on 09-20-2005 05:58 AM
You forgot that if someone changes a template they will most likely have to change armor as they may not be certed for their current armor any more... plus perhaps even a gun.... SEAs.... extra... that all costs money..
What does a jedi have to change? Dont forget there are alot of respecs still out there two.... to help cut into that 'month grind'... As for taking three days... not at the rate I play... more like 3 weeks.
Ulrek_Oden wrote:
Cloak that a jedi spent a whole 28 points to get?
Message Edited by UTech on 09-20-2005 06:47 AM
Ulrek_Oden wrote:
Tanks wrote:
Well, you could also be a BH/Ranger and not need a friend. Also, do not forget that the TEF does not last that long, the Ranger could do the detection at that time. All we know at this time is that motion detectors will uncloak the Jedi ( or have a chance to). We do not know how, and under what circumstances it will work.
Hmmmm so realistically I have to completely change my template.... from MBH MRM... to MBH MRanger... to have a CHANCE to break cloak?
Cloak that a jedi spent a whole 28 points to get?
Does that seem fair?
Not to me...
I just started hunting jedi and in the past 2 days have 'engaged' 4... of the four ALL OF THEM had cloak... and they ALL cloaked...
I got lucky on two and was actually about to get a shot off on them b4 they cloaked...
IMHO the 'cost' for a jedi to obtain cloak... with regards to skill points... needs to be higher or frankly any jedi would be crazy not to have it...
as it stands now... there is simply no way for a jedi that has it to lose a fight... unless they chose not to use it...
Where is the BH's 'get out of jail free' card?
Why are you even worrying about this skill after what they announced......seriously?
They flat out said they are nerfing itsince Jedi were using it as anevasion/escape skill. Do you understand what that means? It means all the whiny people got their wish, the skill will be come worthless unless you think moving like a turtle while your force drains is somehow useful? You can't even heal while cloaked under the new rules. That means you can either, 1) follow the Jedi while cloaked and use area attacks with friends to kill him 2) Be a CM and just throw everything on him till the Jedi is incaped 3)Wait out his force, believe me this one will work now since it was stated you can't channel or it drops the cloak.
So again, why are you still complaining? You are getting your wish, there is no need to whine about the skill when it is about to get nuked.
**btw, for the record 28 skill points could get a Jedi ForceArmor or Force Aura or FR2+Root. 28 skill points to a NON-Jedi is not a big deal, to a Jedi it is the difference between having huge skills**
UTech wrote:
Ulrek_Oden wrote:
Cloak that a jedi spent a whole 28 points to get?
You don't seem to realize, or choose to ignore, the fact that those 28 skill points cost over3 million Jedi xp, or the equivalent to roughly15 million weapons xp. That's the same as grinding the entire Rifleman profession 3 times, just for that one Tier 4 box.Message Edited by UTech on 09-20-2005 06:42 AM
Okay so grinding the rifleman profession 3 times... according to the poster above that only takes 3 days MAX.. so I guess a jedi can get this is 9 days...
Regardless of the time.... the fact is that I would have to expend many many more skill points (which is what really couints anyway) to have a CHANCE to break cloak..... a CHANCE...
Sounds about right... since 3 million xp isslightly less than10% of a full template, this is 90 days of grinding every single day to finish a template.
Ulrek_Oden wrote:
UTech wrote:
Ulrek_Oden wrote:
Cloak that a jedi spent a whole 28 points to get?
You don't seem to realize, or choose to ignore, the fact that those 28 skill points cost over3 million Jedi xp, or the equivalent to roughly15 million weapons xp. That's the same as grinding the entire Rifleman profession 3 times, just for that one Tier 4 box.
Message Edited by UTech on 09-20-2005 06:42 AM
Okay so grinding the rifleman profession 3 times... according to the poster above that only takes 3 days MAX.. so I guess a jedi can get this is 9 days...