Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Kashyyyk Jedi : Not So Bad
wyzer301 wrote:
Aikes, I gotta say I disagree. Just because it has made the profession harder doesn't mean that it is a good thing. Being that you have a Bounty Hunter, I would think you would understand that by doing this, BH are being denied access to skills that they have earned. The most important skill at that. I don't know how many times I will say this, but try having Jedi lose their most important skill, and then tell me how much better it makes that profession. Maybe no more Aura, or maybe no more heals. Or perhaps no more lightsabers. I'm sure that would be an excellent idea, as it would force Jedi to work harder, right?
The idea that this makes BH into hunters and not scavengers is absurd at best. If we could track on Kashyyk, a Jedi there would be just like a Jedi anywhere else. The way Jedi grind there, the easiest thing to do is to go find a group of Jedi, take a mission on one of them, then wait for him or her to be most vulnerable, and then strike. It's not like the Jedi run when we show up. We just show up, wait, and then kill. We basically "scavenge" kills because we don't actually have to fight the Jedi. At least with droids we have to follow the Jedi around and HOPE to catch him or her unawares. We know that the Jedi on Kashyyk are easy prey once you find them.
Flat out, this is a stupid idea. There are four skill boxes that I devoted to being able to track Jedi, and on Kashyyk, those skill boxes are null and void. I don't even know how to express exactly what would be comparable to Jedi, because I don't know what skills I could take away that you would find most important. But imagine those skills gone, and maybe you'll have a sliver of an idea what this has done to BH who aren't more interested in their Jedi main slots.
You just love this argument, over and over thread after thread, "we are losing a whole tree of skills", then you proceed to compare this to Jedi combat skills. You are using your investigation tree just by holding the jedi mission, you can also use droids to find out the jedi is on Kash, you just cant use the droids to pinpoint a location(which they shouldnt do anywhere else either, it is way to easy to track a mark on other planets with the droids). You are not losing your "most important skill" because you are still holding the mission.
Not being able to use droids on kash is not equivalent to jedi losing healing or lightsabers, more equivalent would be a jedi losing the ability to tune a crystal or craft a saber on kash. Losing sabers or heals would be equivalent if a BHlosing useof pistols on kash..that would be equally detrimental.
diepa wrote:
You just love this argument, over and over thread after thread, "we are losing a whole tree of skills", then you proceed to compare this to Jedi combat skills. You are using your investigation tree just by holding the jedi mission, you can also use droids to find out the jedi is on Kash, you just cant use the droids to pinpoint a location(which they shouldnt do anywhere else either, it is way to easy to track a mark on other planets with the droids). You are not losing your "most important skill" because you are still holding the mission.
Not being able to use droids on kash is not equivalent to jedi losing healing or lightsabers, more equivalent would be a jedi losing the ability to tune a crystal or craft a saber on kash. Losing sabers or heals would be equivalent if a BHlosing useof pistols on kash..that would be equally detrimental.
Message Edited by wyzer301 on 06-17-2005 05:42 AM
I can agree that the droids being busted on Kash is a pain in the rear for you guys, no argument. Just keep in mind that you guys or Jedi for that matter are not the only ones with major problems regarding skills.
I find it rather amusing to hunt Jedi on Kash... I've had Jedi friends actually ask me not to hunt Jedi on Kash because they are group grinding... Of course I tell them if I have a mission, they are getting hunted. It would be nice if the droids works, but it's not a game breaker at this point.
wyzer301 wrote:
Onisamu wrote:
You see? now just get this message to the rest of your BH freinds who still think kashyyyk is this stupid worry free safe zone for Jedi becuz as you have all proven IT IS NOT =) Kudos to you guys for taking the initiative on kashyyyk bounty hunting. /slaute
I think the point about Kashyyk isn't that Jedi can't be killed there. It's that you can't be properly tracked there. We have invested in an entire line of skills to be able to track you with our droids, and we are upset that skill has been effectively turned off on a whole planet. This is literally our most important skill as well, as without it our job is nearly impossible (yes I know it can be done...I did it myself during the /login /logout exploit days...but it was insanely difficult and time consuming). Take away the skill you value above all others and tell me how fair you think it is. Perhaps take away your ability to wield a lightsaber? Maybe the ability to fight back against BH? It's not that our job is impossble without droids, it's that we shouldn't have to work without droids, because it is a skill that we earned.
Now, beyond that, let's take my day today for instance. I take a mission on Marra-Jade, she's on Kash. I go to Kash, and search the most common grinding spot on the planet (by the feral wookies, above the black scale camp, in the webweaver path, in the ryatt trail). I search all 6 instances. Can't find her. Now, Kash is a big complex place, so to hunt more than just the hotspots really becomes self defeating. It already takes a good deal of time just to search 6 spots like this, and every bit of time more that you spend, you gain a bigger chance of never finding your mark as he or she moves around more. Oh sure, you could search the whole planet and find your mark, but would you want to have to search the entire planet and every instance just to find one creature to grind on, then have to do it all over again for every creature you need to kill? Also, it takes me two pieces of parwan to get to the hotspot, and then two more if I want to run back (I instead get triple incapped and clone if my mark ain't at the instance).
So anyways, can't find Marra-Jade, so I drop the mission. Now, perhaps you want to tell me that instead of grabbing a mission and THEN going to Kashyyk, I should find a Jedi on Kashyyk and go grab the mission after that. Well, that's what I did actually. I had seen Net-chaos in a group grinding in instance 2 of that hotspot I mentioned (I may be mistaken on the instance, but at the time I was positive...but it's been a few hours, so forgive me). So I go back to Kaadara and grab his mission. I run back to where he had been, only to not find him there. Check every instance again, no luck. Drop his mission and grab a mission on SayanMasta, as he was afk grinding on instance 2 of the hotspot. I get back to Kashyyk and sure enough kill my mark for 112k. I actually find net-chaos here shortly after I kill sayan as well. At this point I've wasted 2 hours and had to give up on 2 missions. Say I hadn't even given up on those first two, and continued looking, how long until I would have found them? What's the chance someone else finds them first and I waste the time to only lose my mark to another luckier BH (and don't get it wrong, it's not skill to find a Jedi on Kashyyk, it's luck). And as for Net-chaos, what's not to say he saw me and was smart and moved? That's could be why I couldn't find him. Or even if he didn't, let's just say I go scout random Jedi. If you see some guy just come running by, or standing around and not in your group, odds are that he's a BH looking for someone, or scouting for another BH. If you want, you can move. So the BH sees you somewhere, goes and gets your mission, but while he's gone you have moved.
Fact is, I shouldn't have to go through all of that. Each instance would have coding to determine the "location" of that area in reference to the rest of the "galaxy" just as every planet does. The instances within Kashyyk are quite similar to each planet within the galaxy as a whole. If droids can differentiate between planets, they should be able to differentiate between instances. My skills should work, and I sincerely believe they don't because Jedi get treated like favorites. 1/4 the BH skill tree is turned off on that planet, and Jedi are taking advantage of that fact.
Besides all of that crap, today while searching the instances, each instance had a full group of Jedi there. That's a lot of Jedi, and BHs can only do so much.
It's not that we can't kill you, and it's not that we can't find you. It's that we have skills to track you to find you to kill you, and those skills don't work on Kashyyk.
Message Edited by Hnglka on 06-17-2005 06:19 PM
wyzer301 wrote:
**EDIT** Realising that you don't know squat about the profession, I added a few comments in pink to explain a few things.
diepa wrote:
You just love this argument, over and over thread after thread, "we are losing a whole tree of skills", then you proceed to compare this to Jedi combat skills. You are using your investigation tree just by holding the jedi mission, you can also use droids to find out the jedi is on Kash, you just cant use the droids to pinpoint a location(which they shouldnt do anywhere else either, it is way to easy to track a mark on other planets with the droids). You are not losing your "most important skill" because you are still holding the mission.
Not being able to use droids on kash is not equivalent to jedi losing healing or lightsabers, more equivalent would be a jedi losing the ability to tune a crystal or craft a saber on kash. Losing sabers or heals would be equivalent if a BHlosing useof pistols on kash..that would be equally detrimental.
Yes, I do love the argument, because it's correct. While you are correct that we still use some skills from teh investigation tree just by holding the mission, it's a very very small part of the line. Don't believe me? Here are the skill mods and the abilities that you gain in the line...
Novice BH
Melee Defense +10
Ranged Defense +10
General Ranged Accuracy +10
General Ranged Speed +5
Bounty Mission Difficulty +1
Assault Armor Movement Mitigation 30%
Assault Armor Accuracy Mitigation 20%
Assault Armor Rate of Fire Mitigation 10%
The Melee Defense, Ranged Defense, General Ranged Accuracy, and General Ranged Speed do not show up again in this tree until Master, because the Novice and Master boxes are a mixture of several lines. Also, there are no droid mods or skills here because at novice, one does not need droids.
Investigation I
Droid Precision +70
Droid Speed +10
Bounty Mission Difficulty +1
Droid Find
Duelist Stance
I'm personally unclear as to why Duelist Stance is not in a different tree, but still, a BH loses 1 ability and 2 skill mods dealing with droids. That's 3 out of the 5 things I get in this box. I spent 5 skill points here, so if 3/5 of the box is of no use on Kashyyk, then I suppose I've wasted 3 skill points when it comes to Kashyyk.
InvestigationII
Droid Precision +50
Droid Speed +40
Lose this entire box on Kashyyk. Regardless of what else you might say, flat out, this is 4 skill points wasted, so I'm up to 7 wasted total. And I can't drop this box and still hunt Jedi either.
Investigation III
Tracking Droids +4
Tracking Droid Effectiveness +50
Droid Tracking Speed +40
Droid Speed +30
Bounty Mission Difficulty +1
Droid Track
So the only thing I keep here is the ability to pull Jedi missions. The ability and 4 skill mods dealing directly with droids I lose on Kashyyk. 5/6 of this box gets turned off on Kashyyk,so you might as well say I lost3 more skill points on Kashyyk. I'm up to 10 lost skill points on Kashyyk.
Investigation IV
Tracking Droids +4
Tracking Droid Effectiveness +40
Droid Tracking Speed +30
Assault Armor Movement Mitigation 30%
Improved Duelist Stance
Again, unclear on the Duelist Stance. I think the Armor mits could have been put elsewhere as well. Still, I lose 3/5 of this box on Kashyyk. I'll round down and call it half, so that'smore skill point I've lost, so tally it up to 11.
Master Bounty Hunter
Melee Defense +15
Ranged Defense +15
General Ranged Accuracy +15
General Ranged Speed +10
Tracking Droids +4
Tracking Droid Effectiveness +10
Droid Precision +10
Droid Speed +10
Droid Tracking Speed +10
Assault Armor Movement Mitigation 60%
Advanced Critical Shot
The Defenses I've already explained. Crit is a skill improvement on an ability I learned in Bounty Carbs, so it isn't tied into investigation either. Even if you include the armor mits, I still lose the other 5 bonuses I get in this box. Let's even say I count the other stuff, I've still lost 5/11 of this box. I rounded down one before, so I think it's fair to round up one this time, and say I've lost half this box on Kashyyk. All told then, I've lost 11.5 skill points. The only way to get back that .5 skill points is to give up the entire master box, so now I'm up to 12 skill points I lose on Kashhyk because of this crap. To get that last skill point back, I had to give up my best shot too, some defense and attack mods, as well as some assault armor mitigation. Heck, let's say I don't even pick up the rest of BH, and only go 3xxx. After all, we are only talking about how this has affected the ability to hunt Jedi. I can take all kinds of other professions to compliment and not need another BH skill box. By Investigation III, had had lost 10 skill points. Just out of the BH tree, that 10 out of 18 skill points that I have lost. Take away a little over half your Jedi skills then, how's that? Not quite fair? Ok, then I've lost 10 out of the 76 skill points I had to spend. Let's take away an 8th of your Jedi then, how's that for fair? Instead of 226k skill points to work with, you only have 198 to work with. Heck, I can take A LOT of 198k Jedi. That's starting to sound alright to me.
I'm not going to waste my time explaining what each skillmod and ability does, but as you can see,A LOT of what we gain in Novice BH, Master BH, and the Investigation tree deal with our droids. A LOT. We lose all of that. The reason you don't like my comparison isn't because you don't think it would suck to lose that stuff, it's because you don't actually comprehend exactly how much we are losing. Simply holding the mission on you only accounts for the Bounty Mission Difficulty +3 that we gain. You need to get your head out of your @ss and learn a thing or two about the game. Losing these abilities IS like Jedi losing their heals or saber abilities. See, me weapons might be part of the job, but without the droids I never can even use the weapons. Losing the ability to tune or craft on Kashyyk does not prevent you from actually USING crystals and sabers there. Take away the number one implement in getting your job done, and then talk to me about what's fair.
My point here, and in all those other threads, is that this is wrong. One way or another, I've invested skill points, XP, time, and money (I mean real money too, not credits, because I had to pay for that playing time) to pick up the droid skills that allow me to follow my mark. Jedi by nature look for the easiest path to finish their templates, and it's only a matter of time before it's a rare exception to catch a Jedi off of Kashyyk. Even now, the majority of our missions are for marks on Kashyyk. You aren't hiding on Kashyyk because you think it's fair to the BH, you are hiding there specifically because you know it is an UNFAIR advantage. If it was a fair advantage, you'd want no part of it, plain and simple.
Message Edited by wyzer301 on 06-17-200505:42 AM
Wow, you are so smart, must have took you hours to paste those mods into an post, I admit I am really impressed.
Without investigation III you cannot hunt jedi, thats why everyone has it...not for the droid speed. You can show me the mods but that doesnt mean anything, the reason to get it is to hunt Jedi. If you are hunting Jedi you are using these skills whether or not your droid did your hunting for you and sent you a waypoint to drive to.
Without investigation IV you do not have adv Duelist stance, you lose armor mitigation, and you cannot get master BH, without master BH you do not get advanced critical, near best attack in the game. If you use advance critical shot while hunting Jedi you are using skills aquired with your investigation tree.
Your just upset that you are so bad at hunting your mark that you cant do it without a droid telling you exactly where to go.
There are pleny of bounty hunters that manage to find there marks on Kash, I know it is beyond you, maybe you should spend more time practicing your profession in game rather than complaining outside the game. It really takes no skill to launch a droid and wait for a waypoint, if that is all you know how to do then you do not know much about the proffession either.
diepa wrote:
Wow, you are so smart, must have took you hours to paste those mods into an post, I admit I am really impressed.
Actually, didn't take long at all. Opened up a skill calculator, and voila.
Without investigation III you cannot hunt jedi, thats why everyone has it...not for the droid speed. Regardless, I still earn those skills for droid speed and so forth, and they aren't working. That's my point. You can show me the mods but that doesnt mean anything, the reason to get it is to hunt Jedi. So basically, intelligent reasoning doesn't work for you? Okay fine, I can always argue along your same lines. If the reason to get Inv III is to hunt Jedi, then shouldn't the rules that the game has put into place to allow us to hunt Jedi work? Yes, the Bounty Mission Difficulty skilmod is what allows me to take a mission on a Jedi, but it's all the other skills that allow me to actually hunt them. If you are hunting Jedi you are using these skills whether or not your droid did your hunting for you and sent you a waypoint to drive to. Actually, the only skill I'm using would be the Bounty Mission Difficulty skillmod. I'm unable to use the other skills.
Without investigation IV you do not have adv Duelist stance, you lose armor mitigation, and you cannot get master BH, without master BH you do not get advanced critical, near best attack in the game. If you use advance critical shot while hunting Jedi you are using skills aquired with your investigation tree. Killing a Jedi is more than possible without duelist stance. I myself have never even used it. The armor mitigation doesn't really matter, because recon armor has the best energy resistance stats, which protects best against lightsabers. And if what you say is true, then the point of being a BH is to hunt Jedi, so who cares if you can get to MBH, right? Regardless, I can replace Critical Shot with Leg Shot and do almost identical damage. From what I understand, they are nearly the same attack, and many hunters deal the same amount of damage with both. However, though I might be using skills that I learned in the Investigation tree when I use Critical Shot, I'm still unable to use the vast majority of the skills that I earn in the Investigation skills. You have been completely unable to argue that point. Is it up to you to pick and choose which skills it matters whether or not they work? Why put those skills in the tree if we aren't supposed to be able to use them? We are not saying that none of our skills work. We are saying that specific skills do not work, and that we would like that fixed. If you lightsaber didn't work, would you complain? If you couldn't heal even though you were a Master Healer, would you complain? How about if aura didn't work, or force run?
Your just upset that you are so bad at hunting your mark that you cant do it without a droid telling you exactly where to go. See, what's funny here is that you only need to read my post called Bored Thread About Killing Jedi in order to see that I actually have found my marks on Kashyyk and killed them without my droid skills. My point is not that I can't kill Jedi anyways, it's that with part of my profession not working, it's harder to accomplish my task. I, and many other hunters, feel that it isn't fair for it to be harder. Heck, let's compare to Jedi complaints now. I hear all the time about how Jedi want lightsabers to deal more damage, and how they want higher XP payout. Lightsaber damage is working (save elemental damage, which I would like to see fixed as well), and XP payout is working too, yet Jedi complain about it, saying that the grind is too hard with the current damage output and XP payout rate. At least this is a complaint about something not working. Ithink this is a testament to the fact thatmany Jedi don't care about the community at large, and rather only care about their own gameplay.I didn't say all Jedi, and I don't mean all Jedi, but I'd bet good money that you are one of these Jedi.
There are pleny of bounty hunters that manage to find there marks on Kash, I know it is beyond you, maybe you should spend more time practicing your profession in game rather than complaining outside the game. It really takes no skill to launch a droid and wait for a waypoint, if that is all you know how to do then you do not know much about the proffession either. Actually, it DOES take skill to launch a droid, as I illustrated with the skillmods that we gain that allow us to do it. It may not take me, the player, any physical skill on my own part outside of clicking buttons, but it also doesn't take you, the player, any skill to wield your lightsaber. Fact is, I myself am not a Bounty Hunter, my avatar is. You are also not a Jedi, your avatar is. This is a game, and games work by having the character that you play have skills that you don't have. No one else can launch a droid in game, because it actually takes a skill that I have to earn. No one else in the game can wield a lightsaber, because it requires skills that you have earned. What you are saying actually illustrates that you do no know much about the profession. Oh, and as I said above, it is not beyond me to find my marks on Kashyyk. I would just prefer it if I could use game mechanics to find my marks, rather than rely on my own intuition. I don't expect you as the player to actually be able to wield a lightsaber, or find another way to grind just because you as the player cannot, because the game mechanics allow your avatar to do it. It would be unfair for you to be unable to use intended Jedi abilities that you have earned, just as it is unfair for me to not be able to use BH abilities that I have earned.
Hnglka wrote:
You guys are going about it all backwards is all i have to say about it.
wyzer301 wrote:
Hnglka wrote:
You guys are going about it all backwards is all i have to say about it.
That's my point, is that we ARE going about it all backwards. We are supposed to use droids to find our mark, not wander around looking for Jedi. We are not Rangers, we are not Master Scouts. We aren't spies. We are Bounty Hunters. And in this game, that means that you use droids to find your mark. That isn't working right now, and we would like to see it fixed.
You still dont get it. Kashyyk is the easiest place in the entire galaxy to find and kill jedi. it doesnt cost you a dime in droids or travel since you have to have JTL to get there. No armor wear because if theyare AFKthey arent hitting you. No need for foods very little weapon decay. Its a free money machine. Kashyyyk as a BH Automated teller machine. Why the hell is everyone complaining? No droids means you dont have to buy them.
The only way it could get easier is if the Jedi was teleported to you rooted and disarmed the instant you accept his mission. Let me give you a big hint- If you are even considering launching a droid you have missed the kashyyyk atm express...