Bounty Hunter Archive

Thread: Jedi 50% more powerful, true or false opinions

HyprHypo
Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:00 am
#14

This "Jedi should win" logic is retarded. Its a freakin game



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SWG Ahazi:
HyperHypo / Guild: Shadow Gypsies

Bucke-Thead
Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:14 am
#15






Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:





Kineris wrote:

Jedi 50% more powerful, true or false opinions





Jedi isn't a single profession. There's 5 disciplines that make up Jedi. MLS/MDef/Heal 3000/Enh 0002? Damn tough. MPowers/MHealer/Def 4040? Erm...not so much. Jedi aren't even balanced with themselves, so just pointing at Jedi and asking if they'retuned to 1.5 effectivenessisn't a question that can be answered accurately.







But anormal templatewill also be made up from 3 different proffessions so your comment on the different disciplines is irrelevent.


Try it ths way... Is afinished templateCL80 Jedi 1.5X as powerful as a fully templated CL80 "normal" toon. Answer is YES. MLS/MDefender is probably 2X as powerful, but even my 'gimped' template of Powers/ENhancer with 4040 heal will never lose a duel. I may not win them all, but wih stasis and cloak, I will never lose either.


I am sure that if I was Master Healer/Master Defender/4004 Enhancer I would never lose, even though I could not dish out damage. There is no 'normal' template that can say that.


Now before you get out the pitchforks, I realise that not every encounter is a duel, but in order to test the 1.5X theory you need to make all things equal except the template... so assume both have the same Health, buffs, etc, and I assure you that there is not 1 'normal' template that can always force a duel to a stalemate. Every feasible Jedi template can do this, or can force the duel to the point where they win at least 66% of the time.






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Hasun
Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:21 am
#16






Kineris wrote:

Ok, I keep seeing this debated over and over between the BH forum and Jedi forum, which the two groups sift through all the time (know thy enemy). BH's stick to the SOE claim that the jedi is 1.5 times as powerful as a non-jedi and Jedi claim it is a fallacy. Lets explore the issue just a bit to show data for and against both claims, without flames, without getting personal. It is my personal opinion that Jedi are more powerful than non-Jedi classses (1.5 times, I dont know). Before we hear Jedi screaming how a BH can, with the right template, defeat a full template mdef/mls let me explain my thought process. Yes it is possible for a BH to solo a full template jedi who is nigh untouchable in other PvP or PvE, but at what expense. Said BH has so tailored his template that his an easy mark in most PvP, and cant even handlemobs several levels lower than him/herself. The jedi on the otherhand probably has a 50/50 shot of beating said BH, can be a killing machine in PvP, and handle level 82 mobs of 3-4 with minimal effort...nm the loss of force in doing so. Not only that, but they get a really cool looking glow stick thatCAN doas much damage as the best non-krayt rifles in the game (and once again, to combat the claim that a LS is supposed to more damage than blasters..think again, a lightsaber is a weapon of finness and skill, not a purely destrucive tool that any joe can pick up and blow holes in the side of buildings...a LS is supposed to be able to cut the arms off an enemy, and a T21 is supposed to obliterate half an enemies torso.)

So now that I have said my 2 cents worth, lets hear from others and please keep it flameless.





depends on the jedi template to the bh template, some are 100%, some are 50%, some are even. Its hard to balance when so many jedi templates ain't working and some MBH templates arn't worth having.



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Jarred-infinity
Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:57 am
#17






Kineris wrote:


I knew the qui-gon issue would come up but hoped that others would see it the way that I do. If qui-gon had just hit the wall once...quickly....like a blaster pistol would, his damage would have been minimal. It was the constantapplication of his saber in a limited area..as well as some unknown force-use judging by the way he was concentrating....that allowed him to do that. Take a focused high capacity laser to nearly any object and that will happen. If the energy pack in a blaster pistol couldpump out enough energy to remainconstant, it would probablydo the same.


But thats my view of it.







Your assuming that the technology of starwars is real here when its obviously not. The explaination of how sabers work was fabricated after they had already been in the films as they were part of the story, nothing more.


Don't fall into the trap of debating how blasters can do this thing but sabers cannot, then try to make a theory based in RL science, you'll quickly find that on these boards everyone has the definative view of how things in starwars work. Funny enough theres rarely two the same.


Not a flame, just trying to save you from a mistake I once made.


Kineris
Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:35 am
#18

well said Ankhesanamun...wow, thats a mouthful...you are absolutely right. Knowledge of ones skills and abilities matched with good player skills equates to more than any raw power rating and no two level 80 players are equal in skill and raw power. Showing that yes, one can have a relatively weak template and kick the behind on someone with a ftw template and lesser skill. In addition to this every template has weaknesses that can be exploited by those with the know how and/or luck to have just the right skill set to use that weakness. I have formed my opinions based on who I have pvp hunted and pve hunted with and forgot to take into consideration that many of those jedi have been playing for around 2 years, so it hard to compare them to4 month to 15 month non-jedi.
WookieOgre
Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:16 am
#19

A skilled BH vs an equally skilled Jedi really depends more on the tempates they both have rather than "Jedi is 50% more powerful". All BH's should ask themselves why they think Jedi is 50% more powerful, specific answers not the "I've seen a Jedi take out a squad solo". You'd be surprised just how even and in some cases how a non-Jedi is better than a Jedi.


Does anyone not remember before patch19 the reason why BH's screamed that Jedi was overpowered? It was all about the healing. Combining Healing with Defenses and a Jedi could outlast anyone who could not match that healing. Now fast forward, non-Jedi can heal better than Jedi by leaps and bounds. Jedi healing was toned down. The complaints still come yet I fail to see what the reasoning is now. If anything Jedi should be asking for normal healing to get the nerf stick as they are overpowered as Jedi were pre-19.


For those who are uneducated, get Medic xx2x, a +17 Healing Eff shirt, and the cyborg healing arm. With just that you will hit over 1k heals. This is just Medic! Everyone needs to take a step back and look at what you choose skill wise. Everyone complains about Master Defender Jedi yet they FAIL to realize a stacked melee template is = to a Master Defender. Guess why, because they are a MELEE profession. If you ask to nerf Jedi then you are asking to nerf all Melee professions.


Jedi might be 50% more poweful if you gave us the use of all our FS skill points. but even then I'd say it depends more on skill. I understand that there is a preception that Jedi is an alpha class but sooner or later people are going to have to realize devs have nerfed this class to pitful levels. We may be the alpha class but only in name, not in actual power. Not until Knight should you see a powerful Jedi, then you'll really start seeing the complaints lol. Right now there are BH's killing fully templated Padawans, when the FRS comes back I'd expect those BH's to even struggle to win against an FRS Knight....I'd also think this means a new form of "risk" would be introduced to balance that power since most of the risk has been removed due to all the nerfing lately.
PFD
Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:33 am
#20

Not even close to the 1.5 mark.
GarronDarkweaver
Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:34 am
#21

True, once they have armour broken me in my 8200 energy resist armour, i get hit for 1300 damage a hit. That is with a psg as well!



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http://img299.echo.cx/img299/6233/jedi6vl.jpg - Liars !!!!!!

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Kazumasa Ishikawa - Master BH
EfreaK
Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:36 am
#22

It all comes up to your skills as a player.


Good BH defeats a bad Jedi.
A good Jedi kills a bad BH.




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.Pwning Space One Galaxy at a time.

GarronDarkweaver
Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:40 am
#23

P.s. A lot of people seem to forget (and this isnt a flame) that while the jedi were spending months leveling up, the majority of good bh's who can actually kill full templates occupied their time in game pvp'ing and fighting jedi.


I my-self have played this game for 2 years now and i have spent practically all of that time pvp'ing, dueling and hunting jedi, hence i have built up the knowledge, expertise and equipment to take on a full template and win, whereas the jedi have spent the majority of their time grinding out numerous professions and then jedi (pre-village jedi i.e. the hardcore) or spent a few months grinding xp to convert at the village and then the rest of their time leveling up with a saber.


It just comes down to time investment. Jedi have the skills and abilities to be 50% stronger than any other template but many (but far from all) lack the knowledge to apply them effectively vs someone who has dedicated 2 years to pvp.





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http://img299.echo.cx/img299/6233/jedi6vl.jpg - Liars !!!!!!

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Kazumasa Ishikawa - Master BH
WookieOgre
Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:43 am
#24






GarronDarkweaver wrote:
True, once they have armour broken me in my 8200 energy resist armour, i get hit for 1300 damage a hit. That is with a psg as well!






A few helpful hints for you:


1) Get your armor sliced for Armor Break resists (up to 75%). With that armor break will not hurt you.


2) PSG's will not mitigate any damage done from a melee profession. Devs have stated Jedi are a melee profession therefore PSG's do not work against them. No point in wearing something that doesn't work against your enemy.


Leatherneck_of_Alderaan
Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:57 am
#25






Bucke-Thead wrote:





Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:





Kineris wrote:

Jedi 50% more powerful, true or false opinions





Jedi isn't a single profession. There's 5 disciplines that make up Jedi. MLS/MDef/Heal 3000/Enh 0002? Damn tough. MPowers/MHealer/Def 4040? Erm...not so much. Jedi aren't even balanced with themselves, so just pointing at Jedi and asking if they'retuned to 1.5 effectivenessisn't a question that can be answered accurately.







But anormal templatewill also be made up from 3 different proffessions so your comment on the different disciplines is irrelevent.


Try it ths way... Is afinished templateCL80 Jedi 1.5X as powerful as a fully templated CL80 "normal" toon. Answer is YES. MLS/MDefender is probably 2X as powerful, but even my 'gimped' template of Powers/ENhancer with 4040 heal will never lose a duel. I may not win them all, but wih stasis and cloak, I will never lose either.


I am sure that if I was Master Healer/Master Defender/4004 Enhancer I would never lose, even though I could not dish out damage. There is no 'normal' template that can say that.


Now before you get out the pitchforks, I realise that not every encounter is a duel, but in order to test the 1.5X theory you need to make all things equal except the template... so assume both have the same Health, buffs, etc, and I assure you that there is not 1 'normal' template that can always force a duel to a stalemate. Every feasible Jedi template can do this, or can force the duel to the point where they win at least 66% of the time.









It's not at all irrelevant. Let me give you an exaggerated example to make it more clear.


What ifHealer was 10 times as powerful as any other single profession. And all the other professions were 1.0 times as powerful. A template that has Healer in it is going to be much more than 2.5 times as powerful whereas a template that doesn't will be 1.0 times as powerful.





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VarianSoth
Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:13 am
#26

I would hope the Jedi are stronger, they should be neway.
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