Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Dev Comments at FanFest Regarding BH/Jedi Missions My Response
NarfBlinko
Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:27 am
#170
Crash752 wrote:
ascencion wrote:
it just doesn't seem far to me that a profession that takes year(s) to complete should even have the possibility of getting beaten by a profession that could take as little as weeks to complete. one BH should not be able to tackle a jedi of any rank by themselves. so what i'm suggesting is that BH missions be given like regular missions and that as long as more than one BH is grouped with another, they have the same target and same rewards when the jedi is killed. one mission per group of BH and if BH are group together, it just takes one to get the mission for all to have the same one.
bottom line, solo BH vs solo Jedi= Jedi wins every time; multiple BH vs one Jedi = possible BH victory
just a suggestion
master clown
bria
chone
A profession that takes years to complete has never existed in this game. Length of time it took someone to master a profession means absolutely nothing at all with regard to how powerful their character should be.
If anything if its taking you over a year to complete Jedi than you are slow and weak and your characters power level should reflect that.
Ehon - Radiant
Assuming you are starting from scratch, and I think nearly all new Jedi are doing just that, the minimum time to unlock is about 18 weeks, or about 4 and a half months, and that is because you can only unlock one FS tree per village Phase, you need 6 trees and each Phase is about 3 weeks. 6 trees multiplied by 3 weeks per tree equals 18 weeks to unlock Jedi. Then, under current conditions, it is possible to grind to full template, aka 0 Skill Points left and all spent on FS and Jedi abilities, in less than a month, so, for sake of argument, we'll call it a month. So, once you get the old man, it's about 5 and a half months to full template. To be able to get the old man, it takes less than a month to grind out a combat profession or 2 and get your badges. So, for the dedicated grinder, it should take about 6 months to get their full template Jedi toon.
I totally disagree that only the slow and weak are taking a long time to get Jedi. I'd argue that the casual gamer who doesn't spend every moment of their gametime grinding for Jedi will easily takea long time to get Jedi. There are also those who don't have Jedi as a priority, so, while they may be slowly grinding away at the village quests and such, they aren't putting a concerted effort into it. I put myself into this category. I've been playing SWG since launch, got 0 free boxes, as I recall, when the village was introduced, due to not grinding professions under the holo-grind system. I'm a totally casual gamer, because I have a life. It's taking me a long time not because I'm slow and weak, but because I don't choose to invest the concentrated time needed to get my 2nd character slot more quickly (I'm not gonna be a Jedi, I just want my dang slot!).
Eutock
Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:15 am
#171
This might have been mentioned already but it's fairly important so I'll say it again. Switching to anonymous/faction/online status terminals is a huge slap in the face to neutral bounty hunters (the "true" bounty hunters from an RPG perspective) because many neutral don't care what faction they hunt.
Need to stop referring to this game as an MMORPG, because it's totally meaningless when continuity is a joke and any RPG aspects keep getting removed. MMORLE is more appropriate (Making Money On Releasing Lame Expansions).
firestarter0001
Sun Jun 26, 2005 5:41 pm
#172
8 pages went by and i finally log on the forums k here is my .000000000002 cents
Tanks wrote:
Posted on the correspondent forum for discussion with the devs.
Keld: "Jedi vs BH should be 1 vs 1"
Rebuttal: Unfortunately, that means any BH fighting a Jedi would die if the Jedi they are fighting is a bit over half template.
Solution: If you want this to happen I suggest a BH special damage modifier that increases damage vs a Jedi. 10% at investigation 3, 10% at Investigation 4 and 30% at Master BH. This would mean a 50% increase overall in damage output (Jedi = 1.5X full template) against Jedi ONLY and only during the BH mission (same combat that locks others out would enable the damage bonus).
^ sounds good, 1 on 1 fight, now i hope it wont be broke when it goes live
Blix: "The Jedi names and mission amounts should not show on the terminals"
Rebuttal:
- If the names are truly anonymous it would be very possible to get the same mission on a Jedi that is on Kasshyk or sitting in a Cantina, AFK, in a player city, over and over again.
- It would be also very possible to keep getting missions on Jedi that a solo BH has no chance of defeating (see rebuttle above). Obviously, no grouping would be possible.
- It would also not be possible to ascertain a Jedi is online or know the faction of the Jedi.
- It would also take away from the RP aspects of bounty hunting.
- Kashyyyk has become Jedi grinding spot now, so BHs will not be able to hunt Jedi via PC informants there either (will cause even more resentment in the BH community).
- BHs will not be able to use /tar Jediname when they get to their querry.
Solutions:
- Make it so a Jedi is assigned a pseudonym when his mission is created. This way if he is on Kashyyyk or AFK in a player structure, the BH can pick another mission.
- List only online Jedi missions on a SEPARATE PC Bounty tab along with their faction.
- Allow the Arakydn droid toreveal the Jedi's real name along with the planet location so the BH can use his targeting macros later on, or abort the mission if he wishes at that point.
- Again, if you are not going to allow grouping or not list bounty amounts BHs should have the skills/mods to take on a full template Jedi.
- Add BH terminals on Kashyyk that will list only Jedi that are currently online, and on that planet, seeing that we would no longer be able to use PC informants. This way at least we'd be able to start looking for them (still would take a long while to manually search each instance).
about have it that we can use are droids again on kash and enter any private building for a certain amount of time ( a new skill or no tef)
One thing to consider before making any changes, if any, is that a lot of the complaints to date have been due to the fact that a lot of newbie Jedi had never PvPed, and also were under the impression that they had to drop non-Jedi skills to level effectively due to CL levels and Padawan effectiveness in solo play. So, when they started grouping and getting visibility, they got wasted.
Now, people are used to CU. Jedi are picking up skills like Rifleman/TK/Swordsman along with Jedi healing and defenses. As a result low level Padawans are actually MORE dangerous adversaries than mid-level Jedi.
It might not be necessary to make any changes to the BH/Jedi system to solve the problem of BHs picking on low level Padawans, as the problem seems to be solving itself for the most part.
I am ready to discuss any of these issues or possible solutions.
Regards,
Message Edited by Tanks on 06-15-2005 10:11 PM
i like it, but without knowing the payout, how dowe get paid when completing the mission? and the pay scale?
Pawnbroker-DC
Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:25 am
#173
tanks a sword 3000 bh with healing can utterly destroy jedi unless they are master defender.....and with the changes in healing coming i'll take even money on the sword over the saber even with defender......in fact any decent bh with a good gun can destroy a full template non-defender....seriously, bh 's in my guiild regularily beat down our full temp jedi in duels unless they have defender
so please stop advocating a system which enables griefing for a false need for a group to take full templates....besides 90-95% of bh's have never even taken a full template mission even for fun.....and yes i know the numbers aren't scientific but based on how many times i get hunted when i log my jedi on and how often my friend logs in with his 226k jedi (who is stealth leveling by capping positive xp while all sp used up and token respeccing) it is pretty accurate....not that i have lost any xp mind you....my payout is very misleading lol
seriously i am thinking of setting up a droid shop and leaving my jedi logged in a house next door to generate foot traffic i get so many visits 
Ayi
Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:12 am
#174
A very easy way to solve the "unkillable MDef/Healer 4XXX" probleme :
Don't nerf deffender, don't nerf healer, just ... make those 2 skilltree unstackable. And then, BH will be able to kill full template jedi 1 vs 1.
Gohma_Manovich
Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:58 am
#175
i like all your soloutions tanks except the damage modifier, it would be unbelievebly powerful now with jedi healing not as good, especialy with 1.5k sniper shots becomming 2.25k damage and last ditch becomming insanely powerfull even if it is risky
Zorron
Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:54 pm
#176
Tanks wrote:
Blix: "The Jedi names and mission amounts should not show on the terminals"
Rebuttal:
- If the names are truly anonymous it would be very possible to get the same mission on a Jedi that is on Kasshyk or sitting in a Cantina, AFK, in a player city, over and over again.
- It would be also very possible to keep getting missions on Jedi that a solo BH has no chance of defeating (see rebuttle above). Obviously, no grouping would be possible.
- It would also not be possible to ascertain a Jedi is online or know the faction of the Jedi.
- It would also take away from the RP aspects of bounty hunting.
- Kashyyyk has become Jedi grinding spot now, so BHs will not be able to hunt Jedi via PC informants there either (will cause even more resentment in the BH community).
- BHs will not be able to use /tar Jediname when they get to their querry.
Solutions:
- Make it so a Jedi is assigned a pseudonym when his mission is created. This way if he is on Kashyyyk or AFK in a player structure, the BH can pick another mission.
- List only online Jedi missions on a SEPARATE PC Bounty tab along with their faction.
- Allow the Arakydn droid toreveal the Jedi's real name along with the planet location so the BH can use his targeting macros later on, or abort the mission if he wishes at that point.
- Again, if you are not going to allow grouping or not list bounty amounts BHs should have the skills/mods to take on a full template Jedi.
- Add BH terminals on Kashyyk that will list only Jedi that are currently online, and on that planet, seeing that we would no longer be able to use PC informants. This way at least we'd be able to start looking for them (still would take a long while to manually search each instance).
You want pseudonyms not for the reasons you state, but so thatBH can still gank Jedi, and so thatBH can still target specific people for their own vendettas once their pseudonym becomes known.
I agree with the separate PC bounty tab with only online missions and their faction.
Allowing the Arakyd to reveal the name also has the side effect of giving the kiss of life to bottom feeding. Your targeting macro problem is not a big deal, you can TAB on the way in.
With the healing changes, you can already take on full template Jedi.
I agree with the suggestion re: special BH terminals on Kashyyyk...but maybe it takes too long to code.
furlock1
Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:38 am
#178
What should occur is 1 vs 1, but there should be a BH Rank system, that you can join or not join like the Sith/jedi will have, for bounties you get you would get prestige points, towards bonuses above and beyond what you have but only against force users can this xp give you those bonuses. and for each time you lose well you lose rank, like a status system.
Ee-dwana
Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:47 pm
#179
I've seen full temp jedi soloed andI have seen a 4 man team soloed. Sorry its all about template. Some are still very powerful while others are fairly weak.
Again BH takes the bullet for the devs till they fix and balancetheir frankenstein Alpha class, and lets not fool ourselves, they are the marketing tool for SWG.
Now remove them fromGCW soI can go do that now. I'm not going to waste my time trying to hunt jedi with this tedious and half asses attempt to end greifing. Aliases should have been the way to go.
marc-anthony
Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:00 pm
#180
dierwek wrote:
Solution: If you want this to happen I suggest a BH special damage modifier that increases damage vs a Jedi. 10% at investigation 3, 10% at Investigation 4 and 30% at Master BH. This would mean a 50% increase overall in damage output (Jedi = 1.5X full template) against Jedi ONLY.
I do know solo Bounty Hunters that have taken a full templated Jedi. Fight might have lasted 15-20 min, but with the right kiteing, and tactics (EX. waiting for them to engage in combat) should be easily done. Knights arent something you just rush into.
Granted it can be done but only and ONLY if the Jedi decides to stick around and actually fight to the death, most of the time even Knights will force cloak or force run rather than die if it seems to them that it is inevitable. The BH has no control over keeping the jedi put.
Hasun
Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:31 am
#181
Tanks wrote:
Posted on the correspondent forum for discussion with the devs.
Keld: "Jedi vs BH should be 1 vs 1"
Rebuttal: Unfortunately, that means any BH fighting a Jedi would die if the Jedi they are fighting is a bit over half template.
Solution: If you want this to happen I suggest a BH special damage modifier that increases damage vs a Jedi. 10% at investigation 3, 10% at Investigation 4 and 30% at Master BH. This would mean a 50% increase overall in damage output (Jedi = 1.5X full template) against Jedi ONLY and only during the BH mission (same combat that locks others out would enable the damage bonus).
Blix: "The Jedi names and mission amounts should not show on the terminals"
Rebuttal:
- If the names are truly anonymous it would be very possible to get the same mission on a Jedi that is on Kasshyk or sitting in a Cantina, AFK, in a player city, over and over again.
- It would be also very possible to keep getting missions on Jedi that a solo BH has no chance of defeating (see rebuttle above). Obviously, no grouping would be possible.
- It would also not be possible to ascertain a Jedi is online or know the faction of the Jedi.
- It would also take away from the RP aspects of bounty hunting.
- Kashyyyk has become Jedi grinding spot now, so BHs will not be able to hunt Jedi via PC informants there either (will cause even more resentment in the BH community).
- BHs will not be able to use /tar Jediname when they get to their querry.
Solutions:
- Make it so a Jedi is assigned a pseudonym when his mission is created. This way if he is on Kashyyyk or AFK in a player structure, the BH can pick another mission.
- List only online Jedi missions on a SEPARATE PC Bounty tab along with their faction.
- Allow the Arakydn droid toreveal the Jedi's real name along with the planet location so the BH can use his targeting macros later on, or abort the mission if he wishes at that point.
- Again, if you are not going to allow grouping or not list bounty amounts BHs should have the skills/mods to take on a full template Jedi.
- Add BH terminals on Kashyyk that will list only Jedi that are currently online, and on that planet, seeing that we would no longer be able to use PC informants. This way at least we'd be able to start looking for them (still would take a long while to manually search each instance).
One thing to consider before making any changes, if any, is that a lot of the complaints to date have been due to the fact that a lot of newbie Jedi had never PvPed, and also were under the impression that they had to drop non-Jedi skills to level effectively due to CL levels and Padawan effectiveness in solo play. So, when they started grouping and getting visibility, they got wasted.
Now, people are used to CU. Jedi are picking up skills like Rifleman/TK/Swordsman along with Jedi healing and defenses. As a result low level Padawans are actually MORE dangerous adversaries than mid-level Jedi.
It might not be necessary to make any changes to the BH/Jedi system to solve the problem of BHs picking on low level Padawans, as the problem seems to be solving itself for the most part.
I am ready to discuss any of these issues or possible solutions.
Regards,
Message Edited by Tanks on 06-15-2005 10:11 PM
well Tanks looks like they waited till you were on Holiday to shaft us, they've looked at our concerns and gone ahead with this anyway. Looks like i'll be doing NPC missions for the next 6 months while the game dies around me. Enjoy your 2 year Birthday SWG because keep up this total biasness towards jedi and there will be no third birthday.