Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Bounty Hunter Prerequisites Time for a change?
I am stunned by what I am reading. People are shooting down this suggestion by saying, "No, we don't want brawler, instead we want better defenses, traps, etc." Well, guess what? This isn't an either-or situation. BH are NOT getting any upgrades. Changing Scout to Brawler won't compromise anything because NOTHING is in the pipeline. The fact that Tanks was the person to bring up human traps, and the fact that he's now suggesting Brawler should be a pretty good indication on which way the wind is blowing.
If you look at this closely, all of the things that people are asking for (with the exception of droid tracking, which is still broken... grr...) can be solved by this change. It doesn't require an about face from the developers on the power of BH (the stated position being that the profession isn't one in need of changes). The only thing is really costs BH is Terrain Negotiation, which would be hard to give up, but perhaps some could even be added to Master BH (after all, CM get it, and Master BH didn't get any of the defensive bonuses the other elite combat professions got).
People have asked for better defenses. Intimidate and Warcy *are* defenses, and pretty good ones. BHs become a lot more survivable with them, not to mention access now to the melee defensive trees and melee damage mitigation. This adds up to a lot more than the 25 ranged and melee defensive bonus that master Commandos got.
Some have asked, instead of a defensive boost to instead get an offensive one. Well, access to Commando Flame or Smuggler Dirty Fighting does this. Low Blow and Panic Shot would also be pretty good survival tools. As for the idea that a BH with a FT would be unbalanced, I disagree: a Master TKA/Master Commando is far more effective.
BHs are somewhat limited by the 33 skill points left, and even more so by the fact that, as things currently are, Novice Medic is critical to offset the HAM costs of the special attacks. However, a) HAM costs will change with the combat revisions and b) some TKA skills could help in that regard as well.
Finally, people are talking about the role playing aspects of the change. If you ask me, it makes *perfect* sense for a BH to have experience in close range combat, especially unarmed. As a matter of fact, anyone trying to capture people *would* have training in unarmed combat. Look at police officers: what do they use more, their guns or their batons/bare hands? As for camping, who saw Boba Fett roughing it in the wilderness?
I think BH should have more faith in their correspondent. He's clearly trying to make things better for BH, and has figured a way that would help solve the problems in a manner that the developers *might* actually go for. Personally, I think it's brilliant.
my vote is NO!!
that would mess up my ranger tracking skills and my ch tanks
Vote no! Maybe unarmed 4, Master marksman, and exploration 4 would be ok. But, never master brawler!
Unless they give us special BH melee attacks and weapons, I don't ever want to master brawler.
Firehand wrote:
I am stunned by what I am reading. People are shooting down this suggestion by saying, "No, we don't want brawler, instead we want better defenses, traps, etc." Well, guess what? This isn't an either-or situation. BH are NOT getting any upgrades. Changing Scout to Brawler won't compromise anything because NOTHING is in the pipeline. The fact that Tanks was the person to bring up human traps, and the fact that he's now suggesting Brawler should be a pretty good indication on which way the wind is blowing.
If you look at this closely, all of the things that people are asking for (with the exception of droid tracking, which is still broken... grr...) can be solved by this change. It doesn't require an about face from the developers on the power of BH (the stated position being that the profession isn't one in need of changes). The only thing is really costs BH is Terrain Negotiation, which would be hard to give up, but perhaps some could even be added to Master BH (after all, CM get it, and Master BH didn't get any of the defensive bonuses the other elite combat professions got).
People have asked for better defenses. Intimidate and Warcy *are* defenses, and pretty good ones. BHs become a lot more survivable with them, not to mention access now to the melee defensive trees and melee damage mitigation. This adds up to a lot more than the 25 ranged and melee defensive bonus that master Commandos got.
Some have asked, instead of a defensive boost to instead get an offensive one. Well, access to Commando Flame or Smuggler Dirty Fighting does this. Low Blow and Panic Shot would also be pretty good survival tools. As for the idea that a BH with a FT would be unbalanced, I disagree: a Master TKA/Master Commando is far more effective.
BHs are somewhat limited by the 33 skill points left, and even more so by the fact that, as things currently are, Novice Medic is critical to offset the HAM costs of the special attacks. However, a) HAM costs will change with the combat revisions and b) some TKA skills could help in that regard as well.
Finally, people are talking about the role playing aspects of the change. If you ask me, it makes *perfect* sense for a BH to have experience in close range combat, especially unarmed. As a matter of fact, anyone trying to capture people *would* have training in unarmed combat. Look at police officers: what do they use more, their guns or their batons/bare hands? As for camping, who saw Boba Fett roughing it in the wilderness?
I think BH should have more faith in their correspondent. He's clearly trying to make things better for BH, and has figured a way that would help solve the problems in a manner that the developers *might* actually go for. Personally, I think it's brilliant.
In my experience, you ask for what you want until you either get it, or you don't. If you accept this as a "fix" to the BH issues, you make it harder to get what we really want. This suggestion opens the bounty hunter profession up to alot more "dabbling" which is good for some and bad for others. For me, more BH dabbling equals more nerfs and less likelyhood that the MBH issues are addressed. There should be a place in this game for a MBH. Making us all "dabblers" is a weak fix.
).However even if this were implemented I probably would change professions.
My vote is no. Besidesit's kinda late to go changing things...
the perfect bh set-up would be terrain and survival of the scout tree...we dont need to harvest or trap...
that would allow us to dabble and build our defenses up elsewhere.....
MBH
pistoleer 0030
medic
Well, my 2 cr goes like this;
First, I think alot of things can be fixed with mod specials at various skills, fill the investingation and master with all kinds of goodies.BH is the hardest to master, therefore we should be rewarded as such.
Is it viable to add medic +5 somewhere, even at Novice BH, maybe at invest 1? Thus negating the need to carry medic. Second, if we as Bounty Hunters are not able to trap players/npc's, then eliminate the trapping line from scout, thus freeing 20 valuable skill points for us to use elsewhere. Even if player traps where added, i would be happy with getting rid of the need to carry medic, and the wasted 15 sp
These 2 ideas, would free up 35 skill points to dabble elsewhere, alowing us to 'specialize' in a weapon of choice.
I would not be against master brawler....I just foresee far too many problems if it where to go live, and there are easierfixes that can be made.
Firehand wrote:
I am stunned by what I am reading. People are shooting down this suggestion by saying, "No, we don't want brawler, instead we want better defenses, traps, etc." Well, guess what? This isn't an either-or situation. BH are NOT getting any upgrades. Changing Scout to Brawler won't compromise anything because NOTHING is in the pipeline. The fact that Tanks was the person to bring up human traps, and the fact that he's now suggesting Brawler should be a pretty good indication on which way the wind is blowing.
If none of the fixes that we have asked for are in the pipeline then why do you think the Devs would totally redesign our profession? If they are too lazy to fix the droids what makes you think they'll totally change the balance of the game to appease BH's? If you're right then discussing the change to Brawler is a complete waste of time because it ain't gonna happen either.
If you look at this closely, all of the things that people are asking for (with the exception of droid tracking, which is still broken... grr...) can be solved by this change. It doesn't require an about face from the developers on the power of BH (the stated position being that the profession isn't one in need of changes). The only thing is really costs BH is Terrain Negotiation, which would be hard to give up, but perhaps some could even be added to Master BH (after all, CM get it, and Master BH didn't get any of the defensive bonuses the other elite combat professions got).
No this change will not give us anything we have been asking for. Doesn't fix our bugs, doesn't fix our droids, doesn't fix our broken specials, doesn't fix our defenses and it doesn't change the fact that everyone else has uber defenses against our attacks (unless you really thing MBH's are so bad we can't even beat a Master Brawler).
People have asked for better defenses. Intimidate and Warcy *are* defenses, and pretty good ones. BHs become a lot more survivable with them, not to mention access now to the melee defensive trees and melee damage mitigation. This adds up to a lot more than the 25 ranged and melee defensive bonus that master Commandos got.
No we will not get any defenses that will be useful. The defenses are not going to stack for much longer. The only way you will be able to use any defenses this would give us is if fight everyone/everything unarmed. Unless you're a very very bad Bounty Hunter you are going to be much more successful fighting with BH skills than brawler skills (even with the defenses). Gaining a few boxes in Commando, TK, etc is not worth wasting 1/3 of our skill points to get.
Some have asked, instead of a defensive boost to instead get an offensive one. Well, access to Commando Flame or Smuggler Dirty Fighting does this. Low Blow and Panic Shot would also be pretty good survival tools. As for the idea that a BH with a FT would be unbalanced, I disagree: a Master TKA/Master Commando is far more effective.
What happens when the flavor of the month changes the brawler based professions aren't so "uber" anymore? Gonna ask to change our prerequisites again?
BHs are somewhat limited by the 33 skill points left, and even more so by the fact that, as things currently are, Novice Medic is critical to offset the HAM costs of the special attacks. However, a) HAM costs will change with the combat revisions and b) some TKA skills could help in that regard as well.
Making us grind Master Brawler WILL NOT CHANGE THE LACK OF AVAILABLE SKILL POINTS. This is just substituting one lower tier Master profession with questionable benefits (scout with terreain negotiation, maskscent, camps etc) for another one (brawler). The underlying problem remains the same though, and will probably get worse.
Finally, people are talking about the role playing aspects of the change. If you ask me, it makes *perfect* sense for a BH to have experience in close range combat, especially unarmed. As a matter of fact, anyone trying to capture people *would* have training in unarmed combat. Look at police officers: what do they use more, their guns or their batons/bare hands? As for camping, who saw Boba Fett roughing it in the wilderness?
No it doesn't make "perfect" sense . You can make the argument but thecasefor scout is much much stronger. Besides, name one BH in the Star Wars Universe that primarily relied on hand to hand combat to neutralize their marks.
I think BH should have more faith in their correspondent. He's clearly trying to make things better for BH, and has figured a way that would help solve the problems in a manner that the developers *might* actually go for. Personally, I think it's brilliant.
No he's throwing out something that was sent to him for us to discuss. Unfortunately this discussion doesn't do anything productive. It sidetracks us from discussing feasible changes that would benefit our profession.
Even if the BH community decided that we want to do this (and from what I'm reading the majority clearly does NOT want to do this) the Devs are never going to going to implement it. We can't get the little things like our droids fixed, what makes you think they're going to do a major profession overhall?
Besides, the Master Marksman + Master Brawler BH was tried out in Beta and it was a disaster. This was the best thing the Devs have ever done to the BH profession (better than fixing the LLC, better than upping the payout/xp etc) we would be idiots to ask them to undo it.
The Productive thing to do would have been to have us discuss the two viable solutions we have and then present our choices to the Devs. Those would be:
A: Incorporate scout skills into the BH tree. Adding Humanoid traps, Humanoid tracking, BH camps, and a BH specific camoflauge would all goa long way. Either an increase in our offense or adding defense would be nice. I'm sure others would have great ideas regarding this this.
B: Reducing or completely eliminating the Scout prereq to BH. This would free up skill points for BH's to customize their skills as they see fit. All of you Brawler lovers would be free to dabble to your hearts content (you could even Master TK if you wanted instead of just Mastering Brawler). Others could add Pistoleer/Carbineer skills to supplement their BH's (and actually get working defenses). Just substituting one skill point eating semi worthless Tree for another will not fix anything.
I get the feeling this is the sort of thread that would have been more appropriate in the old beta forum when pre-requisites were still being hammered out.
Reading around I get the feeling that this is more about problems with scout than a real need for something different, maybe it is worth waiting for the scout revamp?
I hear that sugestions like scout traps working on CH pets and master scouts getting bonuses with creature mounts are being floated around, if so I can see these being most usefull in our chosen profession.
One thing I do know, after getting into a big ranchor hunting group last night, we all spent most of the trip on foot as it was all stop start going between the ranchor nests and there were a ton of hills that without scout would have been a nightmare to climb.
I noted the moans of the 'scout skill impared' members of our hunting party.
As I see it we are ment to be masters of ranged combat and survivalists who can track a mark to the edge of the galaxie and back through any terain that comes between us and our mark.
Master scout and master marksman fill these needs very well.
But lets say that we did have a change from master scout to say master brawer, after we got over the bugs in the translation what would we have gained?
A ton more weapon skills and special moves?
Whould it not be better to see the weapons and special moves we already have improved rather than going out looking for more?
And after our revamp, when the bugs and issues withthe most important tree, the bounty hunter tree, have not been fixed because the devs have spent days of development time moving our pre-requasites, what do you think peoples reactions to our legitemate complaints will be?
"But you already had your big revamp, be happy!".
Just my 2CR.
Sylen Spiritunicorn (Bria).
Wolveryne40 wrote:
**edit** it , bh should be a starter profession lol
I would go with that, then we can just choose what other professions we want. 
Sylen Spiritunicorn (Bria).
I think the master brawler would be better oriented for the Bounty Hunter. Also level the field against these stupid newb TKA's. However maybe like if they did you would get a one time option to change your path automatically for you then if you change its up to you. Id love to do the brwling skills but i remember grinding survival over and over and remember a pain that it was to get it done.
Sin Lightcloud... Eclipse Server... Bounty Hunter...