Bounty Hunter Archive

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Tucheck wrote:
To WookieOgre...the quotes were just getting TOO long.....

I honestly have to say that I believe your saber is sub-standard. Either your BH has an exceptional weapon, or your saber needs help. Initally I would agree that many weapons can outdamage a lightsaber...however, I would also add that combined with things like armor break, sabers are FOR more damaging.

As for a method to keep a Jedi away from me...perhaps this would be true if the failure rates were decreased. I DO have stopping shot which does fail and takes well over 40 seconds between each use. Underhand shot usually works on the first attempt, but fails from there for about a 3 to 1 ratio....not to mention it has a rather long cool down as well.

I'm interested to see how the Devs deal with chaining...I don't rely on this "tactic" to do damage, but as I stated...I really don't want to see Paralyze get grouped in with the damaging roots and mez. I DO hope they either leave Paralyze OUT of the chain fix, or give the paralyze ability SOME type of damage as well as the state....like concusion and stasis.

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They really need to choose their wording better...

Communication isn't just a career field...

QuadraniumRovingFeralWookieeMobile FTW!!11!eleven!!
Thats why you got pwnzrrzzrzrzrzrz'd at teh end!

Nice flick - I had to save it.
And to all the jedi in this thread who say 'I never afk grind, I earned mine the hard way' - Good for you, but just because you did it that way, doesn't mean everyone does. I have no hard numbers, but I'd expect that as many Jedi afk grind the ryatt trail as there are bounty hunters out there that only hunt paddy's under 75k. So for all the alleged 'paddy griefing' that resulted in publish 20, there should be equal nerfing of the ability to attack while afk, and xp should be removed from Cash-ick*.

*Cash-ick borrowed from reference in another thread. Dam its funny.

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aekeem wrote:

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ImageAccess wrote:

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Tucheck wrote:

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

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Tucheck wrote:

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Kalandra wrote:

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Stasis = Paralyze

MSabers < MSwordsman.

Cloak > Conceal, I agree.

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Wrong my friend:

Paralyze does NO damage
Stasis has hit me for 300+ damage and last at least TWICE as long.

Could you also compare concussion and other mezzes/roots? (I'm ignorant to the damage they do)


Let's compare Master Swords and Master Sabers: Your numbers are flawed, in part, because I think you're reading what you want into it. Look at it in the scope of combat (simply damage vs damage + mods because really, what mswords would use 1h?).

Swordsman Def MLS

Melee 135 (50 from class specific + 85 from general) Melee 0

Ranged 60 (all general) Ranged 0

Even if we consider block - advantage Swordsman

Swordsman Speed/Accuracy MLS

Speed 100 (75 class specific + 25 general) Speed for all 120 (100 per style +20 general)

Accuracy 195 (110 class specific + 85 general) Accuracy 215 (140 per style + 75 general)

Advantage MLS

If you will consider this a tie,what should the tie breaker be? The fact MSwords can wear armor? Or how about weapons? Should we consider damage? And if so how do we rate them based on weapons? At whatpointdo we factor indiminishing returns? Do we consider tapes and foods? Should we consider skill enhancing stims? What aboutcybernetics? **a littlesilly isn't it?**

And seeing as MLS is clearly outclassed in damage yet only mildlybetter in accuracy and speed...is it truly a tie?

Gen Melee Acc Sw:85 Sa:75 Swords wins
Gen Melee defense Sw:85 Sa:25 (saber block) Swords wins
Gen Melee speed Sw:25 Sa:20 Swords wins
Swords wins this one

One handed acc Sw:65 Sa:140 Sabers Wins
One handed speed Sw:30 Sa:100 Sabers Wins
One handed def Sw:40 Sa:0 Swords win
Sabers wins this one

Two handed acc Sw:110 Sa:140 Sabers win
Two handed speed Sw:75 Sa:100 Sabers wins
Two handed def Sw:50 Sa:0 Swords wins
Sabers wins this one

Both come with just about the same specials: Armor break, Head hit, Power hit...Sabers does have a ranged KD though and SOME pre-CU sabers have been seen hitting for 900-1000 per hit AFTER armor mitigation. To the BEST of my knowledge...NO Master Swordsman has come close to this.
I didn't even do the double bladed skills...that's just a choice of weapons and I find it to be moot.

Sorry, but I would have to say that Master Lightsabers BEATS Master Swordsman.


Finally we come to Cloak vs. Conceal:

Conceal is limited to the prone position and cannot be engaged with anyone (sometimes anything...like speeders and droids) within a 30m radius. Conceal also breaks when anyone (and once again, anything) comes within, I believe 20 or 15m, of the players using conceal. This is being changed to allow group members in on it...

Cloak is ONLY dependent only on the amount of Force the player has. It can be used at anytime (must be at minimum 20 m from anyone/npc or thing *yes there are cases of bikes causing the cloak to fail*) **taken from the Jedi FAQ's in the Jedi forum

Name FC FC Drain (per player within 22m) States/Effects
Force Cloak 150 25/cycle(10 secs) User becomes invisible, cannot attack/be attacked

and can be used while walking and less then 0m from other players. The cost is so low currently, that I and 3 friends fought a Jedi last night while he stayed cloaked for roughly 10 - 12 minutes with all of us standing around...I DO understand that to use cloak to THAT extent it is dependent on Force channeling. Furthermore....Cloak is located on the 4th tier, where as Conceal is located on the 1st tier.

Nonetheless....I think it's SAFE to say that the versatility of Cloak over Conceal makes it a much more powerful ability. Cloak wins. As it should be. Even if a rifleman afk's his profession and a jedi does the same...it would take longer to gain cloak compared to conceal. Now, if you want to not insult all Jedi, those that earned it have deserved to use it. I would say the same for the lesser powerful conceal.

So let's re-cap with the newly added "supporting arguments"....

Stasis > Paralyze got me there if you strictly consider "damage"
MLS > Master Swordsman I disagree completely
Cloak > Conceal If you don't consider the downsides to cloak (force cost/activation) yeah its better as it should be

If we simply look at these skills I would agree with stasis and cloak. However, they should be more powerful for the excess "time" required to gain them. Now, if you want to argue that no afk player should be able to gain xp, then fine...I'd agree with you (as thats the only thing I and others, can ascertain from this thread).

As for MLS vs Master Swords...I'd totally disagree. MLS is crap alone. Whereas Swords is pretty decent alone. Argue with the real numbers all you want and consider the additional highlighted arguements and address them. Or better yet dismiss me as usual.

Nice try, but you really didn't expect me to "roll over" for THIS one did you. Give me some credit please.

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Probably won't be able to follow my train of thought but oh well right?

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one thing you aren't considering is skill point investment, mswords is 106 skill pts, mls is 89. that's the big problem here is that jedi want to compare their skills to a profession that invests more skill points to get slightly better skills, but jedi have access to a huge variety of skills that they can pick up for relatively few skill points.

cover is 54, cloak is 28, need i go on?

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106 sp for master swords includes the brawler skills needed to get to swordsman some by that same line of though yes it is 89sp for master lightsaber but add in the criteria needed to get padawan(24sp worth of fs skills) and the total xp needed to obtain master lightsabers is 113sp which by my calculations is 7 sp more that it take to get master swords.

but let us go a bit further in our comparrison MLS takes 8.82 million jedi xp which is roughly one fifth of the normally xp earned by a normall profession(Swords) so in actuality is is equivilant to 44.1 million xp that swordsman would have to earn if they wanted to be equivilant to jedi but lets go a bit further our precurser requirements FS XP for FS boxes 6 lines of FS @ a combined total of 7.35 million fs xp needed before you can even think about going MLS. Now lets add in the time element of 18 weeks if you have to do the entire village and see six phases.

So MLS= 8.82 mil jedi XP\

7.35 mil FS XP

and 113 skill points and consuming no less than 18 weeks to achieve(and that's if you become padawan and can grind quickly enough to get MLS in the same week(not likely))

Swordsman= 3.89 mil 2handed xp

415k combat XP

106 skillpoints and about a day to master(if that, I did it in about 3 hours on Dant in groups)

So i guess what i'm saying is your so right...MLS shouldn't be anywhere near as strong as a swordsman with all the time and effort put into getting swordsman. /sarcasm off

OH, i almost forgot the realists point of view. Don't ya think that a weapon made of focussed energy should outdamage a big hammer? Just thought i'd throw that in there with all the other nuggets i just threw at ya.

/flame on (I love saying that..makes me feel like the fire guy from fantasic 4)

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ImageAccess wrote:

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Tucheck wrote:

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

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Tucheck wrote:

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Kalandra wrote:

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Stasis = Paralyze

MSabers < MSwordsman.

Cloak > Conceal, I agree.

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Wrong my friend:

Paralyze does NO damage
Stasis has hit me for 300+ damage and last at least TWICE as long.

Could you also compare concussion and other mezzes/roots? (I'm ignorant to the damage they do)


Let's compare Master Swords and Master Sabers: Your numbers are flawed, in part, because I think you're reading what you want into it. Look at it in the scope of combat (simply damage vs damage + mods because really, what mswords would use 1h?).

Swordsman Def MLS

Melee 135 (50 from class specific + 85 from general) Melee 0

Ranged 60 (all general) Ranged 0

Even if we consider block - advantage Swordsman

Swordsman Speed/Accuracy MLS

Speed 100 (75 class specific + 25 general) Speed for all 120 (100 per style +20 general)

Accuracy 195 (110 class specific + 85 general) Accuracy 215 (140 per style + 75 general)

Advantage MLS

If you will consider this a tie, what should the tie breaker be? The fact MSwords can wear armor? Or how about weapons? Should we consider damage? And if so how do we rate them based on weapons? At what point do we factor in diminishing returns? Do we consider tapes and foods? Should we consider skill enhancing stims? What about cybernetics? **a little silly isn't it?**

And seeing as MLS is clearly outclassed in damage yet only mildly better in accuracy and speed...is it truly a tie?

Gen Melee Acc Sw:85 Sa:75 Swords wins
Gen Melee defense Sw:85 Sa:25 (saber block) Swords wins
Gen Melee speed Sw:25 Sa:20 Swords wins
Swords wins this one

One handed acc Sw:65 Sa:140 Sabers Wins
One handed speed Sw:30 Sa:100 Sabers Wins
One handed def Sw:40 Sa:0 Swords win
Sabers wins this one

Two handed acc Sw:110 Sa:140 Sabers win
Two handed speed Sw:75 Sa:100 Sabers wins
Two handed def Sw:50 Sa:0 Swords wins
Sabers wins this one

Both come with just about the same specials: Armor break, Head hit, Power hit...Sabers does have a ranged KD though and SOME pre-CU sabers have been seen hitting for 900-1000 per hit AFTER armor mitigation. To the BEST of my knowledge...NO Master Swordsman has come close to this.
I didn't even do the double bladed skills...that's just a choice of weapons and I find it to be moot.

Sorry, but I would have to say that Master Lightsabers BEATS Master Swordsman.


Finally we come to Cloak vs. Conceal:

Conceal is limited to the prone position and cannot be engaged with anyone (sometimes anything...like speeders and droids) within a 30m radius. Conceal also breaks when anyone (and once again, anything) comes within, I believe 20 or 15m, of the players using conceal. This is being changed to allow group members in on it...

Cloak is ONLY dependent only on the amount of Force the player has. It can be used at anytime (must be at minimum 20 m from anyone/npc or thing *yes there are cases of bikes causing the cloak to fail*) **taken from the Jedi FAQ's in the Jedi forum

Name FC FC Drain (per player within 22m) States/Effects
Force Cloak 150 25/cycle(10 secs) User becomes invisible, cannot attack/be attacked

and can be used while walking and less then 0m from other players. The cost is so low currently, that I and 3 friends fought a Jedi last night while he stayed cloaked for roughly 10 - 12 minutes with all of us standing around...I DO understand that to use cloak to THAT extent it is dependent on Force channeling. Furthermore....Cloak is located on the 4th tier, where as Conceal is located on the 1st tier.

Nonetheless....I think it's SAFE to say that the versatility of Cloak over Conceal makes it a much more powerful ability. Cloak wins. As it should be. Even if a rifleman afk's his profession and a jedi does the same...it would take longer to gain cloak compared to conceal. Now, if you want to not insult all Jedi, those that earned it have deserved to use it. I would say the same for the lesser powerful conceal.

So let's re-cap with the newly added "supporting arguments"....

Stasis > Paralyze got me there if you strictly consider "damage"
MLS > Master Swordsman I disagree completely
Cloak > Conceal If you don't consider the downsides to cloak (force cost/activation) yeah its better as it should be

If we simply look at these skills I would agree with stasis and cloak. However, they should be more powerful for the excess "time" required to gain them. Now, if you want to argue that no afk player should be able to gain xp, then fine...I'd agree with you (as thats the only thing I and others, can ascertain from this thread).

As for MLS vs Master Swords...I'd totally disagree. MLS is crap alone. Whereas Swords is pretty decent alone. Argue with the real numbers all you want and consider the additional highlighted arguements and address them. Or better yet dismiss me as usual.

Nice try, but you really didn't expect me to "roll over" for THIS one did you. Give me some credit please.

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Probably won't be able to follow my train of thought but oh well right?

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FOR YOU....will we use the quotes...

From top to bottom as best as I can....

Stasis does about 300+ damage. Concusion does a little over 150+...HOWEVER, this MAY be based on the weapon. I cannot confirm this myself.

I'm a very analytical "numbers person". I obtained these numbers by using a really good profession builder. I believe it SHOULD be this easy...200 melee defense is better then 170 melee defense, no matter HOW you look at it....agreed? I also forgot to add in the mods given in the Force Sensitive trees....so there is still a little more that can be added to the Master Sabers numbers. Lastly...where did you find the "damage" numbers in the information given. I see def, speed, and accuracy...but no damage.

Swordsman using a one handed? I'm VERY unclear about this...I just used what I considered "comparable" between BOTH professions to decide which one has a decided gain.

I did NOT consider it a tie. I believe that Master Lightsabers is more powerful then Master Swordsman.

I did not consider individual weapons as it was just too big a variable...I simply wanted to look at teh "base attributes" of each profession. To look at ANYTHING else is too "personal"...both professions are given BASE abilities and mods...what they do and use with them is an infinate moot argument. This is why I decided to "stick with the concrete differences in the professions". BTW...nitpicking on something as broad as this topic just leads to unproductive trolling.


Conceal...yes I saw the notes as well. It's good to know that group members will not break conceal. I appreicate the update, but I don't think your trying to say that this fix brings Conceal "in line" with Cloak...are you? By the way...thanks for the info on it's cost. I believe we agree that Claok is better then Conceal...I just STILL disagree witht he method through which it can be obtained. Cloak takes more AFK time then Conceal...THIS is your argument?

Cloak...yes you got me...I forgot to edit that out. I wanted to confirm my suspicions by asking a Jedi friend of mine....when I "got back" I guess I forgot to delete it. *redface*

Stasis > Paralyze Yes..strictly damage. If a Jedi wants to hold me hostage, but NEVER do damage, I wouldn't have HALF the problem I do now. /macro nochance = KD 200+ damage + Stasis 300 + damage + /pause 38 + /macro nonchance.

I mean REALLY look at that...with a standard 3K health...it takes 6 rounds of macro "nochance" to incapp a player who has VERY little chance to heal or move. The new fix SHOULD take care off this...at least I hope it does.

MLS > Master Swordsman You know...I'm going to have to stay out of this one. I really don't know the "in's and out's" of either profession to make ANY comment other then based on "the numbers"

Cloak > Conceal We agree.

And finally the end...we do not, nor will we ever agree that a Jedi should be more powerful because they had to spend more time AFK them non-Jedi professions.

*addition*

Allow us to speak very plainly...like civil men with a common interest, SWG, for just THIS moment.

You seem to think I hate Jedi, however, this is NOT the case. I am "pro-Jedi". I believe that the inital existance of Jedi was a healthy addition to SWG. If I'm correct, your in game Jedi is Gheist...furthermore, if I'm correct again, you are not a new Jedi. So I don't understand how you can, so often, defend this new "Jedi in a can" method. Do you NOT find it insulting?
As a MBH, I have seen my profession have it's prerequisites lowered twice since I have been playing. Both times I watched as players "flocked" to become a BH without going through all the hassles that I, and many other BHs, had to endure. With the lastest removal of prerequisites, I felt as though my profession was made into nothing more then an "add on" profession....wherein any player could take Jedi missions for a mere 76 skill points....and be more effective then a MBH who used 121 skill points. There was nothing special about my profession anymore. I see the same thing happening to the Jedi profession. So easily obtained, and so many players perusing it...how long do you think it will take before Jedi DO get brought down to a non-Jedi profession level. Perhaps you think that is the current state of Jedi. Maybe you don't care. As it is now...I DO NOT see the "new" Jedi earning anything with the many different ways to exploit the system. It IS good to see that the Devs are closing a few...however, the fastest way to achieve a fully templates Jedi still remains available to anyone who wants to use it, with no risk, and no reprise.

I think I'll sum it all up with this:

You don't seem to understand how I can attack it, I don't understand how you can defend it.

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WookieOgre wrote:

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Tucheck wrote:
To WookieOgre...the quotes were just getting TOO long.....

I honestly have to say that I believe your saber is sub-standard. Either your BH has an exceptional weapon, or your saber needs help. Initally I would agree that many weapons can outdamage a lightsaber...however, I would also add that combined with things like armor break, sabers are FOR more damaging.

As for a method to keep a Jedi away from me...perhaps this would be true if the failure rates were decreased. I DO have stopping shot which does fail and takes well over 40 seconds between each use. Underhand shot usually works on the first attempt, but fails from there for about a 3 to 1 ratio....not to mention it has a rather long cool down as well.

I'm interested to see how the Devs deal with chaining...I don't rely on this "tactic" to do damage, but as I stated...I really don't want to see Paralyze get grouped in with the damaging roots and mez. I DO hope they either leave Paralyze OUT of the chain fix, or give the paralyze ability SOME type of damage as well as the state....like concusion and stasis.

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I can say my saber is more than good. It is 710 damage with 200+ elemental. In the end I get pissed because my MasterRifleman/MasterBH can outdamage my Jedi anyways from a ranged position. Yeah I know I'm using a Rifle that I know has a damage over 1100 (can't remember exactly) plus I have 50 worth in accuracy/speed mods in clothes. Guess what, I nearly have the same for my Jedi though. I still can't outdamage my BH, that's all that I ask lol. If that was possible I might be inclined to say ok, Jedi is top dog since they can do uber damage but it's not true.

Like I said my damage is better with the BH but I admit not by much. Jedi have to get Armor break from a 5m distance where as my BH can just hit from 80m away. Little things like this is the reason why I love being a ranged BH.

I have no doubt there are good PvPers out there on both Jedi and BH. Looking at the damage output of Jedi and non-Jedi they are near equal. Lookig at what is possible defensively when a Jedi takes defender and when a non-Jedi selects a melee template, it's balanced. You might have little tricks that make people say "how cute, he's all glowy and stuff" but at the end of the day Jedi skills are near = to normal profession skills. Definetly not 1.5x as strong.

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NICE SABER!

I find it amazing you cannot outdamage your BH. Let me ask you this though, "Can you outlast your BH"?

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

I may have reacted too soon.

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Blixtev wrote:

This is a bug fix to a problem intoduced in the previous TestCenter build where "Rifleman cover is no longer affected by group mates." Well the Rifleman cover change made it so Jedi and Riflemen could get into a perma invis state. Nothing should have changed with cloak. Please put away the pitchforks and extinguish the torches.

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Such ancient thinking....and look where the world is now.

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Tucheck wrote:

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

I may have reacted too soon.

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Blixtev wrote:

This is a bug fix to a problem intoduced in the previous TestCenter build where "Rifleman cover is no longer affected by group mates." Well the Rifleman cover change made it so Jedi and Riflemen could get into a perma invis state. Nothing should have changed with cloak. Please put away the pitchforks and extinguish the torches.

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Such ancient thinking....and look where the world is now.

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

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Tucheck wrote:

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Leatherneck_of_Alderaan wrote:

I may have reacted too soon.

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Blixtev wrote:

This is a bug fix to a problem intoduced in the previous TestCenter build where "Rifleman cover is no longer affected by group mates." Well the Rifleman cover change made it so Jedi and Riflemen could get into a perma invis state. Nothing should have changed with cloak. Please put away the pitchforks and extinguish the torches.

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Such ancient thinking....and look where the world is now.

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We need to just stop right now because we're having a non-flaming conversation. So, with that in mind...

/flame Tucheck

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I noticed this as well...minimal to NO flaming...I just didn't want to jinx it by making note of it.

So why don't you get out of your mothers basement you noob. Go get a job or maybe a girlfriend, although I suspect your batting for OUR side....the list goes on and on...

OH wait...my FAVORITE:

Cry more (or harder) noob...

lol

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ImageAccess wrote:

I removed the extraneous quotes to just focus on this...hope no one minds.

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Tucheck wrote:

FOR YOU....will we use the quotes...

From top to bottom as best as I can....

Stasis does about 300+ damage. Concusion does a little over 150+...HOWEVER, this MAY be based on the weapon. I cannot confirm this myself.

Personally I don't know either. I would extend an offer to test this if you have it and/or know someone that does.

I'm a very analytical "numbers person". I obtained these numbers by using a really good profession builder. I believe it SHOULD be this easy...200 melee defense is better then 170 melee defense, no matter HOW you look at it....agreed? I also forgot to add in the mods given in the Force Sensitive trees....so there is still a little more that can be added to the Master Sabers numbers. Lastly...where did you find the "damage" numbers in the information given. I see def, speed, and accuracy...but no damage.

As am I (anaytical) however I do realize that the numbers while increasing in value, actually loose power as they increase. For example the defenses earn from a tka/defender jedi who uses CoB/aura and that which doesn't is massive. However it takes a 500 point boost to gain those values. (this is really rough but I hope it makes sense). Meaning a small increase 10-20-30 points while important (espically at lower levels) is good...as you level up and gain defense (or accuracy or whatever) have less value. There isn't much difference between a 250 and 225 melee defensed toon. If you want to see this in action just ask.

Swordsman using a one handed? I'm VERY unclear about this...I just used what I considered "comparable" between BOTH professions to decide which one has a decided gain. By that, I mean this... As a swordsman your primary damage is via a sword not fencer. While fencer (ie 1h) mods are gained during the initial brawler portion of grinding up swords. It does not convert to help 2h Swordsman templates. So, byproxy of a useless mod I refuse to consider it in comparing Swordsman and MLS. (basically a master fencer would be required to compare to 1h saber stats).

I did NOT consider it a tie. I believe that Master Lightsabers is more powerful then Master Swordsman.

This is where we differ. I consider it a push in favor of Swordsman. Only thing I can tell you is to look at raw damage, defenses gained, and weapons available.

I did not consider individual weapons as it was just too big a variable...I simply wanted to look at teh "base attributes" of each profession. To look at ANYTHING else is too "personal"...both professions are given BASE abilities and mods...what they do and use with them is an infinate moot argument. This is why I decided to "stick with the concrete differences in the professions". BTW...nitpicking on something as broad as this topic just leads to unproductive trolling.

What I was talking about was look at the SAC range on weapons for MLS vs Swordsman. Look at the Damage ranges on weapons. Look at the cost associated. Components needed. Look at the accuracy mods. Look at any number of "weapon" attributes between the professions and you can see a disadvantage between the two.


Conceal...yes I saw the notes as well. It's good to know that group members will not break conceal. I appreicate the update, but I don't think your trying to say that this fix brings Conceal "in line" with Cloak...are you? By the way...thanks for the info on it's cost. I believe we agree that Claok is better then Conceal...I just STILL disagree witht he method through which it can be obtained. Cloak takes more AFK time then Conceal...THIS is your argument?

I'm not arguing conceal should be equal at all. I'm not saying that afk'ing is my arguement. This gets back to your original post which started this thread. As has been said before, every profession can be afk'd (within reason). Either you get upset about all of them or you dismiss this as another long line of crap decisions by Sony. I don't like afk'ers but I've done it. It makes me a hypocrit, that I know. I have not afk'd any profession I haven't mastered prior. While that doesn't make it any better, I can say I've done all original 32 and then some.

Personally if a Jedi is afk killing and then goes out to use those skills you should be happen. They won't know how to play. Just like a rifleman that afks to master. Only differencer here is that the afk jedi has the potential to be more powerful (which I would quickly argue is a shrinking advantage...).

Cloak...yes you got me...I forgot to edit that out. I wanted to confirm my suspicions by asking a Jedi friend of mine....when I "got back" I guess I forgot to delete it. *redface*

Stasis > Paralyze Yes..strictly damage. If a Jedi wants to hold me hostage, but NEVER do damage, I wouldn't have HALF the problem I do now. /macro nochance = KD 200+ damage + Stasis 300 + damage + /pause 38 + /macro nonchance.

I mean REALLY look at that...with a standard 3K health...it takes 6 rounds of macro "nochance" to incapp a player who has VERY little chance to heal or move. The new fix SHOULD take care off this...at least I hope it does.

I agree that stasis shouldn't stack like it does. Just like any root, snare, mez, special state, or kd should be on a timer. I get all of those constantly and I can't tell you how god damn frustrating they really are. (hell I had a Jedi stasis my ass right out of a 2 on 2 fight...they killed my bud and came for me...I spent over 4 mins just watching the fight before it was my turn...)

MLS > Master Swordsman You know...I'm going to have to stay out of this one. I really don't know the "in's and out's" of either profession to make ANY comment other then based on "the numbers"

Like I've told any bh that has come for me, or I have met in game (or anyone for that matter). If you want to know this side, you know how to find me. The offer is up and I only have 2 stipulations. 1. Come alone and 2. Without mission. If you want to do the mission then don't expect me to be all googooey eyed when I fight to the dealth.

Cloak > Conceal We agree.

And finally the end...we do not, nor will we ever agree that a Jedi should be more powerful because they had to spend more time AFK them non-Jedi professions.

*addition*

Allow us to speak very plainly...like civil men with a common interest, SWG, for just THIS moment.

You seem to think I hate Jedi, however, this is NOT the case. I am "pro-Jedi". I believe that the inital existance of Jedi was a healthy addition to SWG. If I'm correct, your in game Jedi is Gheist...furthermore, if I'm correct again, you are not a new Jedi. So I don't understand how you can, so often, defend this new "Jedi in a can" method. Do you NOT find it insulting?

As a MBH, I have seen my profession have it's prerequisites lowered twice since I have been playing. Both times I watched as players "flocked" to become a BH without going through all the hassles that I, and many other BHs, had to endure. With the lastest removal of prerequisites, I felt as though my profession was made into nothing more then an "add on" profession....wherein any player could take Jedi missions for a mere 76 skill points....and be more effective then a MBH who used 121 skill points. There was nothing special about my profession anymore. I see the same thing happening to the Jedi profession. So easily obtained, and so many players perusing it...how long do you think it will take before Jedi DO get brought down to a non-Jedi profession level. Perhaps you think that is the current state of Jedi. Maybe you don't care. As it is now...I DO NOT see the "new" Jedi earning anything with the many different ways to exploit the system. It IS good to see that the Devs are closing a few...however, the fastest way to achieve a fully templates Jedi still remains available to anyone who wants to use it, with no risk, and no reprise.

I think I'll sum it all up with this:

You don't seem to understand how I can attack it, I don't understand how you can defend it.

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Lets be frank then. While I may be an older Jedi, you need to do more to clarify you detest the new Jedi (as do I). I do find it insulting and I have been around long enough to have known the power we once had. I've stated as much as often as I find it necessary. There are multiple threads on SF's forums in which I raz "rent'a jedi's."

With that said. I will defend my profession(s) as I see fit. I do not care for many of the BH changes. I do not care for many of the Jedi changes. Personally I think I'd simmer down if the devs would just explain what the hell they wanted to do with this game. Until then I cannot see less time = less power. Before the Jedi class was visibile, Bounty Hunters argued the very same thing because of the time it took and the skill points it required. While our skill points as Jedi (the need/use) haven't deminished our time has...that is whats making us come down (that and the over-abundence). Bounty Hunter is no different.

Personally if we could go back to the days when you had to use a training saber to grind all boxes (because you couldn't get a pearl or crystal...or *insert stupid jedi issue in the past here*) and Bounty Hunters had to experience mission failures and no mounts and scout/marks before...

Well those days are gone. I'm learning to adapt. (hell I put in my bio on my toon "I'm a pre-pub 9 Jedi. I do not know anything about the new system so don't ask." )

*on a joking side...you guys (bh'ers) should be happy about afk'ers...cause when they finish and this new system is in place, they won't know d!ck about their class, nor will they have any good saber components...look at the upside free $BLING$ $BLING$...*

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R.I.P.

The Hatchet

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Im cracking up here, im reading bounty hunters talk about ethics. Now ive heard everything.