Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Getting to know you and your profession!
th0mas
Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:21 pm
#924
Same here... CH was the first profession i really played, mastered and enjoyed.
It's sad to see that SOE decided to "balance" this profession around 1 year ago, and still havent "balanced" any other profession but CH & Jedi.
From what we're told (not informations has been released on this, to my knowledge aside from the statement saying it is so) Jedi has been beefed up a bit (tweaked the numbers) so that its "balanced" now and ready to be "balanced" later.
Without getting into an argument on whether this is actually true or not, I seriously wonder why the Developers care, love and interest for this profession has left it crippled for practically the last year.
Oh... and on the complaning part.
It's long been proved that Developers have done next to nothing for CHs...
If you read all posts from the last year - when the last sweep through the CH profession was made - im sure you'll find several issues (and if you look, you might even find some rant posts... now that you seem to be looking for them).
Try to ask your 'friends' about the profession, rather than just going by "not complaining = nothings wrong".
It's sad to see that SOE decided to "balance" this profession around 1 year ago, and still havent "balanced" any other profession but CH & Jedi.
From what we're told (not informations has been released on this, to my knowledge aside from the statement saying it is so) Jedi has been beefed up a bit (tweaked the numbers) so that its "balanced" now and ready to be "balanced" later.
Without getting into an argument on whether this is actually true or not, I seriously wonder why the Developers care, love and interest for this profession has left it crippled for practically the last year.
Oh... and on the complaning part.
It's long been proved that Developers have done next to nothing for CHs...
If you read all posts from the last year - when the last sweep through the CH profession was made - im sure you'll find several issues (and if you look, you might even find some rant posts... now that you seem to be looking for them).
Try to ask your 'friends' about the profession, rather than just going by "not complaining = nothings wrong".
Padtai
Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:53 pm
#925
About me: I created an entertainer mostly to try something different and out of curiosity after chiming in on some AFK debates.
The class is (as I'll say for dancer and musician) broken. Its sort of like being a chef back when they didn't make anything anyone wanted to buy. If you actually want to actively play the character, there's precious little anyone needs you to do after you master, because either there's a bot set up to do it better than you, or there's some "levelling" entertainer (live or not) who says they need the healing experience. Same problem dancers and musicians have, I guess, but even worse since you're just completely useless as a master entertainer who can't buff instead of mostly useless.
The only reason I have master entertainer is so I can play an extra song and use the mandovial, which is the coolest sounding thing in the game. There's not really any benefit for dancing or being an ID to mastering entertainer. There aren't even any quests or extended content for the class unelss you go further up the entertainer trees (and that's just the recently added quest that is pretty short content). Artisans can make speeder bikes and survey, as well as being a usefulbase for elite professions. What can entertainers do that elite entertainer classes can't do better? The 150 credit missions are a joke and don't scale from novice to master, so its not as if entertainers have missions to run to support themselves.
The only reason I have master entertainer is so I can play an extra song and use the mandovial, which is the coolest sounding thing in the game. There's not really any benefit for dancing or being an ID to mastering entertainer. There aren't even any quests or extended content for the class unelss you go further up the entertainer trees (and that's just the recently added quest that is pretty short content). Artisans can make speeder bikes and survey, as well as being a usefulbase for elite professions. What can entertainers do that elite entertainer classes can't do better? The 150 credit missions are a joke and don't scale from novice to master, so its not as if entertainers have missions to run to support themselves.
What I would like to see for this class is some way to have it really provide bonuses and incentives beyond just the one instrument and song.Give players a reason to want to master entertainer and a reason to seek out master entertainers in particular. Maybe the ability to do some special imperial or rebel facial tatoos, or hairstyles or something, for any species that would give players a reason to seek master entertainers out distinct from Master ID's. Perhaps a completely new dance ( could even be the old removed hand-drawn flos that were goofy but sort of funny...I miss the poplock wave). Perhaps the ability to play music while dancing with some type of tambourine type of instrument? It doesn't have to be incredibly complicated, but you need to add something for this class to justify the amount of skill points invested in it.
Anyway, Tiggs, I hope my thoughts don't get ignored because lately, that's what I feel has been happening to all the feedback entertainers provide to the developers. I don't consider the entertainer character the reason I play the game or even what I spend most of my time playing, but it is an area of the game I see as having great untapped potential to keep me playing *this* game over some of the competitor type games that will shortly be hitting the market. Not too many games offer me the chance to be a performer, but many give me the chance to be a hunter, killer, crafter (money-maker) and yes, even a Jedi. This sort of class is pretty unique to this game and its a shame the developers don't have the time to even sketch out what improvements they plan to make, let alone make some of them in the near future. If I bought someone a three months subscription for the holiday's Tiggs, I dougt they'd have a working entertainer game by the time the fees ran out. So its nice you want to get to know us and all, but I think if you want to keep your customers Tiggs, then this community in particular needs some real feed back about when they might expect to see changes that give them a reason to keep playing this class in the game. At present, most people seem to be guessing just about "never" as the answer and hitting the cancel button.
DaBomB691
Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:56 pm
#926
I dropped fencer and went TK (once again) because of the lack of a stun move. I didn't want to be a stacker either by just going TKM/MFencer :/
StarNick
Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:01 pm
#927
Sleep is for the weak, I have a few more hours I can get work done.
Agreed! If it wasn't for an all nighter, I wouldn't have gotten that Chapter 1 to Commando Chronicles out! Was up till about 6:00 am finishing off some HTML revisions I had to do (took me 2 hours total, and to relearn HTML heh) when I posted it to swgcommando.com, before that about4-6 hours of writing/brainstorming/etc.
Yes, unbelievable...it was only a 4-page intro per say into the bigger story, yet it took me 4+ hours saturday/sunday morning and an hour or so when I first started it a few days ago. Thats like 1-2 hours per page! Scary isn't? But then again, thats only for the beginning...really hard to get the plot going, but luckily for me...I found one that not only ties into the character background (my novel) but also a consistent theme throughout my playtime on galaxies....now the hard part is just trying to remember all the details =)
After all the coffee I consumed that night, heh that may take a while 
Message Edited by StarNick on 10-25-2004 04:02 PM
Pisqon
Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:13 pm
#928
When everyone thinks of a real life commando, I'm sure it's not quite the same as the commando in game. The Flamethrower is badass and all, but our other gear sucks. The HAR is useless. Give us some more hardcore stuff to play with! Make us useful once again! Skill mods, give us those back. Mainly I want better weapons that work, other than just the flamethrower. I wouldn't mind keeping the HAR if you combined it with the Flamethrower tree or something, but we need some new stuff.
Seiryuu
Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:16 pm
#929
Tiggs, thank you for reading and responding.
If you would do the honor of humoring me, I would ask you to talk with those two CH friends of yours. Ask them what they think of the profession, its plusses and minuses, its quirks, its aggrivations. Ask them why they remain handlers.
Consider these questions as well:
- Were they handlers before the changes in December 2003?
-- If so, how do they feel about them?
- What do they think of wild pets?
- What do they think of BE pets?
-- If they use BE pets, how powerful are they in comparison to wild ones?
- How do they rank CH in a list of combat professions?
- Why are they handlers? For ability, versatility, fun?
- Would they ever consider surrendering the profession?
- Do they have a firm understanding of game balance?
I ask you to talk with your friends about this because I think you should gather a true understanding of the profession. Creature Handler is a unique profession in comparison to all the other ones out there. Many of the current handlers have stuck with it because it is fun despite the serious misgivings we have listed here.
My subscription runs out in a few days and I will be honest in saying I doubt anything will draw me back. I personally have nothing to gain from this request. Please Tiggs, talk to those friends and keep the discussion going here. Understand why the decisions in the past have so hurt this community, address them, and give it a reason to hope.
If you would do the honor of humoring me, I would ask you to talk with those two CH friends of yours. Ask them what they think of the profession, its plusses and minuses, its quirks, its aggrivations. Ask them why they remain handlers.
Consider these questions as well:
- Were they handlers before the changes in December 2003?
-- If so, how do they feel about them?
- What do they think of wild pets?
- What do they think of BE pets?
-- If they use BE pets, how powerful are they in comparison to wild ones?
- How do they rank CH in a list of combat professions?
- Why are they handlers? For ability, versatility, fun?
- Would they ever consider surrendering the profession?
- Do they have a firm understanding of game balance?
I ask you to talk with your friends about this because I think you should gather a true understanding of the profession. Creature Handler is a unique profession in comparison to all the other ones out there. Many of the current handlers have stuck with it because it is fun despite the serious misgivings we have listed here.
My subscription runs out in a few days and I will be honest in saying I doubt anything will draw me back. I personally have nothing to gain from this request. Please Tiggs, talk to those friends and keep the discussion going here. Understand why the decisions in the past have so hurt this community, address them, and give it a reason to hope.
duncje
Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:25 pm
#930
Lonkley wrote:
And why does everyone else get free checkers?
LOL. 
Tiggs won't get that, but us old-timers appreciate the joke. 
TheRealTK421
Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:26 pm
#931
What makes you think it was a joke?
duncje wrote:
Lonkley wrote:
And why does everyone else get free checkers?
LOL.
Tiggs won't get that, but us old-timers appreciate the joke.
/bow
Respectfully,
JavelinCatcher
Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:52 pm
#932
TheRealTK421 wrote:
What makes you think it was a joke?
duncje wrote:
Lonkley wrote:
And why does everyone else get free checkers?
LOL.
Tiggs won't get that, but us old-timers appreciate the joke.
Well I'm confused on what he meant, and I was there for the checkers comment...
Who's getting free checkers here? Oh wait, you mean the people who buy a droid never need to replace it?
(Remember in my first post, I mentioned we already had a period where people were too afraid to use a droid for fear of loosing it.)
SioBabble
Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:04 pm
#933
Tiggs, as you can see, this is a tough crowd.
Some of us have been here since launch, or right after it. My first post on the CH forum is in July of 2003, when I stopped messing around on what my elite prof was going t be and decided that it would be CH.
I've seen all the nerfs. There was a time when Holocron himself posted here often, before he was kicked upstairs and away from SWG.
Then there's TH, who dares not post here, because he's got serious crediblity problems with CHs, and will be pelted with Maroj Mellons no matter what he posts.
Then there's JFreeman, who has virtually overnight becomeTHEstar dev in the eyes of CHs, for fast, responsive, concerned participation here. He admitted he made a mistake and move at lightspeed to fix it. The next day, the problem he inadvertently created was corrected, and he improved functionality of command training in the process.
Creature Handlers have the distinction, or the curse, of being the prototype profession for massive profession hatred. CMs are second rate in the hatred departement, next to CHs. Only Jedi can be considered to be at our level. We were "unbalancing" at launch because we were cursed with having a profession that mostly worked, and the other professions did not. We were nerfed incessantly and without mercy for the first six months of SWG, mostly due to the wails of the crybaby FPS/PvP crowd, Once the nerfing was complete, we were ignored.
Until this weekend, it seems, when a dev took action to address our issues. To communicate with us. This is an amazing event to most CHs, who feel they've been shoved into a corner, forgotten like red headed step children.
So be patient. If you come in here like JFreeman, eager to help and communicate, you'll be treated not only civilly, but with respect and admiration. If you come in here like Thunderheart, things will not go well.
DarthRoe
Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:33 pm
#934
I've been a DE since launch, and there's so many thing that have changed for the better in this class (especially all the new modules a few patches back), but there is much more to do.
Droid decay in some form must be addressed. We must be able to name droids outside of the conventional name filter to include numbers--EVERY DROID IN STAR WARS uses numbers in their name! Some way for Master DEs to pull out more than one droid should be a priority, too.
Droid decay in some form must be addressed. We must be able to name droids outside of the conventional name filter to include numbers--EVERY DROID IN STAR WARS uses numbers in their name! Some way for Master DEs to pull out more than one droid should be a priority, too.
Echinacea
Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:35 pm
#935
Okay...you want what I think, so I'm not reading anyone else's posts. Here's the issues I think are in need of attention within the Entertainer tier:
- Our healing is completely passive. I think it would go a long way towards fixing a lot of issues if it were an active thing, as with medics, where we had to keep the patron targetted, or at least had to do /setperform on them at some point during a performance. (Not just for the elites' buffs.)
- Not being able to move while performing drives me batty
- Not being able to use a droid to heal outside of my professional building(s) like medics drives me nuts
- I really think 5 points of Fatigue Healing (Music) & (Dance) would do a lot of good in the Novice Entertainer box, like Novice Medic has +5 Wound Treatment (which isn't seen again until Novice Doctor). Fatigue is far more of a gating form of damage than mind wounds. (What the heck is it with Keldarin and Wound Healing?) It would also be great if one of the entertainer-oriented chef-made items was for fatigue healing, not all of it for wound healing and the non-functional mind enhancement drink.
- There's no real reason for anyone other than a Musician to take Master Entertainer. There needs to be something unique in that skill box for each of the elite professions that come off of Entertainer, not just Musicians. Tattoos for non-Zabrak for IDs and a unique dance would be a very good start.
Yeah...I think that's my take on what I would really love to see changed in the Entertainer tier. I've got other items I think could use attention, but they belong specifically to either Musician or Dancer.
/mutter Now that I did go read other people's posts, I forgot to mention gig mission payouts. They're that forgettable. I think fixing the issue ofthe passivity of our healing and buffing would fix the AFK/bot issue.
Message Edited by Echinacea on 10-28-2004 09:54 PM
Rizzaka
Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:14 pm
#936
ahhh tiggs tiggs tiggs... how i've been waiting for this thread =D
The issues i believe are of concern to the community and to myself as well are as follows
- Damage output in the current combat system. We have a single weapon with AP which is not good at all for pvp or pve. Something needs to be done about this
- High End Content, lack of it plain and simple. By lowering the effectivness of our dodging so that we always stand a chance of being hit seems to have been too much and we get the crap kicked out of us many times. Accuraccy for mobs was not lowered to reflect this change also, there still appear to be mobs in game that have 100% accuraccy and for one of if not the most defensive prof in game it really hurts our play style.
- Special Costs. I alway consume my mind bar the fastest and with the current state of the game this is unacceptable. The mind bar is the most prized and coveted of all our stats and we simply do specials till we have none left (the go insane effect)
- DoT weapons. Simply game breaking and very much 'not starwars' imo
- Lack of visual immersion with the fencer title. Our main weapons are a gaffi stick and stun baton, the stats are okay but we'd still like at least an AP1 weapon thats craftable. Visual options to change the gaffi stick or stun baton so they could just look like a sword and simply have a new skin option during the crafting phase would help this alot.
- Duel Wielding, many people want it and its been said it would be implimented but thats all we have really heard. More info would be great.
- Sheithing weapons, why can't i put a sword around my waist or across my back? It would be a great feature to add in.
hrmm thats all i got right now, i'll update this if i think of anything more
The issues i believe are of concern to the community and to myself as well are as follows
- Damage output in the current combat system. We have a single weapon with AP which is not good at all for pvp or pve. Something needs to be done about this
- High End Content, lack of it plain and simple. By lowering the effectivness of our dodging so that we always stand a chance of being hit seems to have been too much and we get the crap kicked out of us many times. Accuraccy for mobs was not lowered to reflect this change also, there still appear to be mobs in game that have 100% accuraccy and for one of if not the most defensive prof in game it really hurts our play style.
- Special Costs. I alway consume my mind bar the fastest and with the current state of the game this is unacceptable. The mind bar is the most prized and coveted of all our stats and we simply do specials till we have none left (the go insane effect)
- DoT weapons. Simply game breaking and very much 'not starwars' imo
- Lack of visual immersion with the fencer title. Our main weapons are a gaffi stick and stun baton, the stats are okay but we'd still like at least an AP1 weapon thats craftable. Visual options to change the gaffi stick or stun baton so they could just look like a sword and simply have a new skin option during the crafting phase would help this alot.
- Duel Wielding, many people want it and its been said it would be implimented but thats all we have really heard. More info would be great.
- Sheithing weapons, why can't i put a sword around my waist or across my back? It would be a great feature to add in.
hrmm thats all i got right now, i'll update this if i think of anything more